Staying present in my life

[frank_D]

Your daughter is right.

And your wife is SO FAR out of line with that response to D17 that I don't even know what to say.

I told D17 the same thing later. She was right.

I do want to know one thing though - what in the world would make you buy such a big ticket item for D13 one month before Christmas?

Anything and everything else is going to pale by comparison.

And your wife was already dealing with the realization that nothing she could provide for either of the girls would amount to a hill of beans.

But now it's basically been thrown in her face just how utterly disadvantaged she is. Understand this is WAW mentality talking to you. But "little" stuff like this is what is likely to get her hackles up and make her fight for half of everything you own.

And Frank, she will get it.

You need to be careful not to offend her too much.

Ok, the thing is that D13 was excited because I promised her that when I could afford it she would get it. The past 2 weeks she knew I was going to be getting some money and asked me practically every day. Even W told me that I should be sure NOT to get her hopes up.

Also, W has been pushing me to help D17 get a car 'because she needs one'. So getting D17 money for a car is 'good' but getting D13 laptop is 'bad'.

Luckily I have no need to buy anything else right now. And I am paying into her credit cards slowly when I can.

Another note. We usually go to her dad's for thanksgiving dinner. He called me and invited me over since that's 'my day' with the girls. He said he talked to W first and she declined to come and said it was good that he was able to visit with the girls.

He said he was kind of glad she decided not to come because there was too much tension between us at the funeral.

This is all crazy. She doesn't want me, she doesn't like me, she is probably angry that I'm starting to thrive again and she's still struggling. Her kids just don't like being around her much of the time. But she has OM and I have nobody.

I'm trying to do the right thing but even that seems like it's wrong.

[frank_D]

I do want to know one thing though - what in the world would make you buy such a big ticket item for D13 one month before Christmas?

Anything and everything else is going to pale by comparison.

D13 said after she got the laptop that she only expects a christmas card from me because this is her early christmas present.

I'll probably buy her a book or something. You really have to realize how much she appreciates this.

[AmyC]

That's cool, Frank.

And I know that technically it's not her business what you buy or when you buy it (and it sure ain't mine!) but I want you to be aware that she can blow over stuff like that and it comes from her feeling of inferiority.

You don't want to perpetuate that feeling.

No matter if you ever reconcile or not, you want to lift the woman up.

It's the right thing to do.

Strive to get to a place where that's the natural thing, as well.

[frank_D]

And I know that technically it's not her business what you buy or when you buy it (and it sure ain't mine!) but I want you to be aware that she can blow over stuff like that and it comes from her feeling of inferiority.

You don't want to perpetuate that feeling.

No matter if you ever reconcile or not, you want to lift the woman up.

It's the right thing to do.

Strive to get to a place where that's the natural thing, as well.

Yeah, I know it's the responsibility I bear because I took it on 17 years ago. Thanks for the reminder.

[AmyC]

Wow.
And that's a helluva burden isn't it?

Frank, you can get to a place where this doesn't feel like such a burden. I know that it does. And I would venture a guess that at times it makes you angry. I mean, after all that she's done, why the hell should you be expected to "lift her up", right, when she really ought to be throttled? WHO would expect that of you? How dare they!

I know I am about to go far outside the scope of this current dialogue...

But your words sound edgy at times and I know I have called you on the bitterness in the past but the problem Frank, is really the BURDEN. The burden of being called to keep being bigger and rise above so much friggin NONSENSE. It is, quite honestly, a colossal pain in the ass that goes against every natural instinct that we have.

And yet -

It is only the same mercy and grace that is extended to us when WE blow things sky high and can barely withstand the fallout.

I'm not gonna coddle you and I sure ain't gonna start BSing you.
This is not as simple and cheesy as saying to yourself at each event "What would Jesus do?" and then thinking you know the answer and acting accordingly.

This is about YOU and YOUR relationship with Him - which, if you had one, you'd be changing from the inside and you'd soon not be able to do anything OTHER than what Jesus would do. And it would become the natural order of how you do things. Because that's what happens. When you let Him lead. I'm not saying you wouldn't still have to stifle your flesh daily. I'm saying it would start getting a heck of a lot easier.

You're still questioning every move she makes and everything she says. That tells me that at least on some level, you're still wondering what your REaction ought to be. That is strategizing and you are past that point. It's time to get real.

And just for the record - it's NOT your responsibility to "do" anything in particular, other than keep a roof over your daughter's heads.

YOU very much still have a choice.

You can let this situation make you bitter or you can let it make you better.

You go through the motions of the latter but I'm not feeling it.

Just as an example, you could have drawn your wife into the deal with the laptop. I don't care if you're the computer whiz or not, she could have had some input because it's also HER daughter. It would have gone a long way to making her feel that she had SOMETHING to contribute - to making her feel respected - even if she just said to D13 "What about a pink one?" or something lame like that.

You missed the boat because your vision is limited.

Get rid of the burden Frank.

Have your eyes opened so you can think outside the box.

Start talking to God about your problems and then start talking to your problems about your God, Who is much bigger than all of them put together.

Do it in that order.

Additionally, I would be interested to know what you are teaching your daughters about respect. I read and understand how they feel and they are absolutely 110% justified based on your wife's actions as of late.

HOWEVER

THAT is the woman that cared for them for years.
Here's what SHE is thinking:

She held those babies when they cried.
She fed them and nurtured them.
She taught those little girls how to walk, to talk, to read and to write. She sang the ABCs with them. A zillion times til they knew them. She counted with them til they could go all the way to what? 20? 100? Do you even know? After they entered school, she went to conferences, helped with homework, made their breakfasts, lunches and dinners. She made sure they showered and learned to take care of themselves. She tucked them in at night. Every night. She got them haircuts, took them for yearly physicals and took them to the doctors when they were sick. She took them to whatever activities they were involved in. And she cheered for them. And you all went on family vacations. And she kept that house clean, did more loads of laundry than you will have left to do if both girls stay home til they're 20 and she planned birthdays, Christmases and she dressed them up to trick or treat year after year after year. I'm not saying she did it all by herself. Perhaps I listed things she didn't even do - but I'm sure there were others.
And tell me, Frank, when the girls were say, 3 and 7 or 7 and 11, after they went to bed at night, how much time did your wife truly spend on herself? 30 minutes? An hour? When did her days end?

Your 17 year old is lucky she didn't get smacked in the mouth when she said "...when you're a guest in someones house you should be neater".

HOW DARE THAT CHILD SPEAK TO HER MOTHER LIKE THAT.

I am in no way supporting your wife's response, which was TOTALLY unacceptable even if your daughter was 30 years old HOWEVER you post back to me and tell me one damn reason your daughter doesn't need to have a knot jerked in head and I won't say another word about the fact you are NOT supporting their relationship with their mother and in fact, you are hindering it and serving your own selfish need to feel superior in the process.

I am not a fan of your wife.

But I am even less a fan of you continuing to believe the false notion that you're somehow better than Lori because you aren't drinking and now you're making money while she doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Think it over like you do, Frank.

Then come back and call bullsh*t if you know in your heart and gut that I'm wrong.

I dare you to look and see what I see...

[Imageer]

Your 17 year old is lucky she didn't get smacked in the mouth when she said "...when you're a guest in someones house you should be neater".

HOW DARE THAT CHILD SPEAK TO HER MOTHER LIKE THAT.

I have to agree. I'm guessing your D is speaking out of hurt and frustration but she crossed the line and should be called on it.

My kids are much younger than yours but no matter what is happening between W and I, I expect them to be nothing but respectful to her. Related to this, I never speak negatively about my W around the kids.

[frank_D]

Wow.
And that's a helluva burden isn't it?

Actually, I don't think of it as one. I actually was grateful that you reminded me that I am the kind of person who can forgive and lift her up. I think you thought I was being snippy but I wasn't. Can't always get the emotion across in a post.

But your words sound edgy at times and I know I have called you on the bitterness in the past but the problem Frank, is really the BURDEN. The burden of being called to keep being bigger and rise above so much friggin NONSENSE. It is, quite honestly, a colossal pain in the ass that goes against every natural instinct that we have.

Yes it does. And we're not like so many others who can't get beyond the hurt and anger. This is our calling in life, and we're good at it.

This is about YOU and YOUR relationship with Him - which, if you had one, you'd be changing from the inside and you'd soon not be able to do anything OTHER than what Jesus would do. And it would become the natural order of how you do things. Because that's what happens. When you let Him lead. I'm not saying you wouldn't still have to stifle your flesh daily. I'm saying it would start getting a heck of a lot easier.

agreed, I still cycle but not as much any more. Today I feel calm.

You're still questioning every move she makes and everything she says. That tells me that at least on some level, you're still wondering what your REaction ought to be. That is strategizing and you are past that point. It's time to get real.

Yep, I realized that this morning, like I said I 'picked up the rope and got rope burns' so I'm dropping it again.

You can let this situation make you bitter or you can let it make you better.

I'm a lot less bitter that I was a month ago. I'm getting there. Really.

Just as an example, you could have drawn your wife into the deal with the laptop. I don't care if you're the computer whiz or not, she could have had some input because it's also HER daughter. It would have gone a long way to making her feel that she had SOMETHING to contribute - to making her feel respected - even if she just said to D13 "What about a pink one?" or something lame like that.

You know, in this case I was actually worried she'd get mad at me so I didn't say anything about it. Weird huh?

Additionally, I would be interested to know what you are teaching your daughters about respect. I read and understand how they feel and they are absolutely 110% justified based on your wife's actions as of late.

As a rule I always tell them to be better with their mother. And I do tell them when I think they have done something I feel was disrespectful. I also let them vent and do my best not to take sides.

Your 17 year old is lucky she didn't get smacked in the mouth when she said "...when you're a guest in someones house you should be neater".

HOW DARE THAT CHILD SPEAK TO HER MOTHER LIKE THAT.

If I had been present I would have said something right away. I've done that before and I won't tolerate her attitude.

But W was there and SHE should have put her in her place.

But I am even less a fan of you continuing to believe the false notion that you're somehow better than Lori because you aren't drinking and now you're making money while she doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Good point. Sometimes I look down on her because, here she has a man like me who would do anything for her, and she can't see it. And she hurts her kids over and over because SHE has to 'be happy'.

I do my best to not look down on her. Most of the time I'm decent.

Then come back and call bullsh*t if you know in your heart and gut that I'm wrong.

I have more things I need to improve. Like I said I think some of my feelings are being misread but I also see many of your points.

I'm at a point where I can let it go and just be me. Thanks Amy

[AmyC]

Wow.
And that's a helluva burden isn't it?

Actually, I don't think of it as one. I actually was grateful that you reminded me that I am the kind of person who can forgive and lift her up. I think you thought I was being snippy but I wasn't. Can't always get the emotion across in a post. I'll buy that.

But your words sound edgy at times and I know I have called you on the bitterness in the past but the problem Frank, is really the BURDEN. The burden of being called to keep being bigger and rise above so much friggin NONSENSE. It is, quite honestly, a colossal pain in the ass that goes against every natural instinct that we have.

Yes it does. And we're not like so many others who can't get beyond the hurt and anger. This is our calling in life, and we're good at it. BE VERY CAREFUL - there is a trap in knowing you're "good" at this. That you keep getting back up. Trust me, it's a trap. Self-assuredness can give way to foolish pride before you know what hit you. I'm just warning you. Be vigilant.

This is about YOU and YOUR relationship with Him - which, if you had one, you'd be changing from the inside and you'd soon not be able to do anything OTHER than what Jesus would do. And it would become the natural order of how you do things. Because that's what happens. When you let Him lead. I'm not saying you wouldn't still have to stifle your flesh daily. I'm saying it would start getting a heck of a lot easier.

agreed, I still cycle but not as much any more. Today I feel calm. Faith is not a "cycle" and that's what I was talking to you about here. You can't just whip out the Jesus card when you're slinking along rock bottom. What are you going to do about what you've learned from the believers among us? When are you going to address it? It's on the bottom of your list but it should be at the top because therein lies the answer to the rest of the things on your list.

You're still questioning every move she makes and everything she says. That tells me that at least on some level, you're still wondering what your REaction ought to be. That is strategizing and you are past that point. It's time to get real.

Yep, I realized that this morning, like I said I 'picked up the rope and got rope burns' so I'm dropping it again. Good luck with that. I no longer believe dropping the rope is a cognizant choice.

You can let this situation make you bitter or you can let it make you better.

I'm a lot less bitter that I was a month ago. I'm getting there. Really.Good. So long as you don't let yourself pedal backwards for long, doing so occasionally is part of the process. Just get back to looking ahead and aiming.

Just as an example, you could have drawn your wife into the deal with the laptop. I don't care if you're the computer whiz or not, she could have had some input because it's also HER daughter. It would have gone a long way to making her feel that she had SOMETHING to contribute - to making her feel respected - even if she just said to D13 "What about a pink one?" or something lame like that.

You know, in this case I was actually worried she'd get mad at me so I didn't say anything about it. Weird huh?Yeah. That you were basically a chicken. I wonder why extending the olive branch and doing the right thing is so hard for us, just to merely take into consideration another's feelings...we basically suck at that. How pitiful is it we have to LEARN this?

Additionally, I would be interested to know what you are teaching your daughters about respect. I read and understand how they feel and they are absolutely 110% justified based on your wife's actions as of late.

As a rule I always tell them to be better with their mother. And I do tell them when I think they have done something I feel was disrespectful. I also let them vent and do my best not to take sides Letting them vent is a good thing and you know I support that. There's a line though and a time and a place to take sides. .

Your 17 year old is lucky she didn't get smacked in the mouth when she said "...when you're a guest in someones house you should be neater".

HOW DARE THAT CHILD SPEAK TO HER MOTHER LIKE THAT.

If I had been present I would have said something right away. I've done that before and I won't tolerate her attitude.

But W was there and SHE should have put her in her place. You expected your wife to all of a sudden be able to put on the robe of a reasonably offended and righteous mother? Ain't happening. Because she lives everyday with the feeling that that ISN'T her home anymore and she IS just a guest and IT IS AWKWARD no matter who decided she needed to leave.

But I am even less a fan of you continuing to believe the false notion that you're somehow better than Lori because you aren't drinking and now you're making money while she doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Good point. Sometimes I look down on her because, here she has a man like me who would do anything for her, and she can't see it. After 3 years of getting kicked in the teeth every time I thought I had it right, I totally feel you here. And she hurts her kids over and over because SHE has to 'be happy' And how's that working out for her? It ain't. I wonder what it would be like if you could go to sleep one night and dream the feelings that she feels...I wish that were possible. Then you'd understand better what there's no way even I can convey. .

I do my best to not look down on her. Most of the time I'm decent I know you are .

Then come back and call bullsh*t if you know in your heart and gut that I'm wrong.

I have more things I need to improve. Like I said I think some of my feelings are being misread but I also see many of your points.

I'm at a point where I can let it go and just be me. Thanks Amy

You took that well overall.
I'm kinda impressed.

[Sara]

"She doesn't want me, she doesn't like me, she is probably angry that I'm starting to thrive again and she's still struggling. Her kids just don't like being around her much of the time. But she has OM and I have nobody."

You don't have nobody. You have the girls. That makes you the winner.

[4kids]

Frank,

Just lurking in the background, but thought I would throw out a suggestion for a book I'm currently in.

Changes that Heal by Dr. Henry Cloud.

It's been a good read so far and I think you might find some wisdom in it. I know I have.

Make it a great Thanksgiving,

<retreating to the shadows>

N.