New Me - Will WAW ever notice?

[Kakatal]

Here is what I see as the positives. You know that your kids will be well taken care of during the day. You will not have to cart them off to daycare everyday. If they are sick you do not need to stay home from work. If you need to work late you do not need to find someone to pick them up. Your W will have all day and them and you will have all night. You will be able to show off your changes and best side each and every day.

I agree with all of these positive points. Along lines with PD about being around her daily to show off changes, be confident & show loving detachment.

Either way your W needs to get a job and make money, why not make it easy on yourself and her. Let her deal with the issues she had before with being a daycare provider it’s no longer your concern, right.

Very true. All those issues are hers now - marriage won't be one since D is in the works.

You have to coexist with the woman for the rest of your life. Think about that. You can be bitter and resentful and let it slowly eat you alive or you can be the bigger person and be civil and understanding to her.

I know we will be in each other's lives the rest of our lives. Better to keep taking the high road so that when time comes to reflect, w can never look back & blame me for anything else that has happened to her once she decided on the D.

Yes, it sucks big time but what will really get her and this will not happen for a while is that when you do find that inner peace and strength and the ability to make yourself happy she will be the same unhappy person she was before. She has not changed or grown, she has only switched dancing partners and he can no more make her happy than you can. Fantasy remember.

I already see this in her. She is miserable, complains a lot about her life, has little patience with the kids, etc. In those times I am practicing loving detachment, I am happy in her presence. Have to keep working on that.

Let her cake eat at the moment. It won’t last. Your posts and how you describe your interactions and her responses leads me to believe she is already starting to question her choices. I think after she got back from AK last time she was starting to see the reality of it sink in. That much time away from your kids and that much distance between family is tough. I know there is no way I could live that long without my kids, how about you?

Unfortunately for you your hopes got up and then you crashed and backslide. You did not stay consistent. Consistency is the most important part of all this. When you waver it confuses her and makes her believe your changes are not permanent and if she opens her heart to you she will be hurt again. Nobody wants to go through that again.

You have been here three months now. That is not enough time to change yourself and become consistent with those changes. You have proven that over the last week. You have a ways to go and she has a ways to go to learn how to trust you again. Get back to what was working, get rid of expectations, stop worrying about the impending D and stop worrying about what she does outside of your kids. She will continue to test you and if you keep reverting back to your old ways her fears will be confirmed.

Whether you get a D or not does not matter at this moment. You and all the other LBS are wasting way too much energy on the what if's in your life you cannot control. You’re not giving your W money, your not paying for her plane tickets or anything else for that matter so you’re not supporting her choices. You think this is all fun and games for her but its not. She is torn up inside but she is a lot better at hiding her emotions than you are.

Thanks for the insight here. Part of me feels providing her the place to run her business again (rent free) is enabling her choices. Again, doing the right thing, with no expectations is the approach that was working. Here is another opportunity for me to choose.

Going to repeat this one more time. Your need to learn Patience and Consistency and you need to Detach yourself from her, you need to find how to make yourself happy and finally you need to give it Time. Three months is a sprint, one year or more is a marathon. Either your in it for the long haul or your not. There is no in between. Its going to be difficult, your going to get hurt but in the end you will be the best possible person you can be whether its with your W, alone or with someone else.

4 months & counting. I am trying to find a way to not let this dominate my thoughts. Very hard. No idea how you have been able to maintain it as long as you have - kudos!! I need to get away - going to Vegas for Thanksgiving weekend by myself. Much needed break - even w has suggested that she take kids overnight Friday so I can go out. Time to clear my head, figure out what I really want & then focus on setting goals to attain it.

[Kakatal]

Bit of encouraging news for w - I had IC a week ago & picked up a business card of my therapist's partner - w had asked me to. I put the card on the fridge door, pointed it out last Thursday & just dropped the issue. Last night I noticed the card was gone & not in trash.

W went out with her cousin last night - was dressed up nicely. I complimented her saying I thought she looked very nice. She said thanks with a smile.

This morning, usual routine. Made coffee for myself & poured a cup for w, sugar & milk. W comes in, says hi & looks to be in a good mood. Gets her camera out of her purse while I am getting my stuff ready to leave. I call D9 to come so we can leave. W mood changes - puts away camera & appears to withdraw, like she is hurt. Go to give kiss to D2 - get my usual game of no kisses for dad. I just smile at w, say cya tonight & leave. Have to go back inside to get lunch money for D9 & w is sitting on couch very sad looking. I just say I had to grab some money for D9 & hope you have a good day.

Driving to work I replayed this in my head & felt bad that I somehow saw that w wanted to share something with me and I just came across to her as if I wanted to be out of her presence as quick as possible - reinforcing that I am done with her.

Talked about this with psychologist at work who reminded me that most of the past interactions with w during m were passive-aggressive. Now that I am aware that isn't how I want to be - I want to be open about my feelings, it is also my expectation that others will treat me the same fashion. W hasn't changed - acting like a disappointed child that didn't get her way instead of just speaking up & saying that she had something she wanted to share, but maybe later when I have time.

One fault is taking blame or feeling responsible for w's moods. Well I am not so quit doing this to myself. Just contributes to the negative thoughts & I need to just stop the self-abuse.

[Phoenixdeux]

Driving to work I replayed this in my head & felt bad that I somehow saw that w wanted to share something with me and I just came across to her as if I wanted to be out of her presence as quick as possible - reinforcing that I am done with her.

Clearly she didn't get the camera out for nothing. Show some interest. OM certainly did, and look what it got him. It's okay to take a few minutes to acknowledge her and see what's up. But it sounds like you know that now. Tomorrow do better. Take a minute or two to just see if she wants to open up (don't push for it, but at least stand still for a few minutes).

[Kakatal]

Driving to work I replayed this in my head & felt bad that I somehow saw that w wanted to share something with me and I just came across to her as if I wanted to be out of her presence as quick as possible - reinforcing that I am done with her.

Clearly she didn't get the camera out for nothing. Show some interest. OM certainly did, and look what it got him. It's okay to take a few minutes to acknowledge her and see what's up. But it sounds like you know that now. Tomorrow do better. Take a minute or two to just see if she wants to open up (don't push for it, but at least stand still for a few minutes).

I have to say i am confused as to what I am doing. I feel that OM needs to be out of picture before I am ready to even be friends with my w. Friends do not cheat, lie or betray each other. By taking time to acknowledge her I am believe that I would be giving her mixed signals. I want her to realize that there is no friendship, she doesn't get to share her life with me if she plans on ending our m over OM.

Ok. So am I using a sledgehammer to drive home the point when you are telling me a simple toy hammer may be more appropriate? I am taking too hard of a line & should soften my approach?

Last 2 weeks I was soft & now I guess I am still bitter over getting my hopes up. So I go back to being unavailable, dark, etc when I do not need to be so far removed? Apparently I am not seeing the positives you are in my sitch.

[Phoenixdeux]

I have to say i am confused as to what I am doing. I feel that OM needs to be out of picture before I am ready to even be friends with my w. Friends do not cheat, lie or betray each other. By taking time to acknowledge her I am believe that I would be giving her mixed signals. I want her to realize that there is no friendship, she doesn't get to share her life with me if she plans on ending our m over OM

You are still reacting like an angry person. You and I (and even your wife) know that you are hung up on her. Your "we can't be friends til OM is out of the picture" comes across more as pouting to get your way. I see two ways to do this. 1) Decide you don't want a cheater for a wife and firmly and definitely kick her to the curb. No coming in the house at all, just discuss the kids, don't even make an attempt to be friendly. 2) Get it into your head that you will be the OM for a bit. You'll be friendly (although not over the top), and someone she can talk to. But you won't act like you have a stake in the outcome. Get a "I can take her or leave her" attitude. If she goes, oh well, less headaches for you; if she stays, good, you'll work on making the marriage divorce proof with her. I just don't think you can have it both ways; that's why your wife seems confused about you and wonders what's on your mind, etc...because you look interested, but moody and pouting. Either option will look more attractive than something in the middle. Be all one thing or the other.

If you choose the "friends" route (I know, it's not much of a friendship), here's my thoughts. I know there is a lot at stake here (more than there was for me), but can't you try to make this somehow fun for you? It's a challenge...rise to it. Show her that she can't crush you. Joke with her. Smile at her. Don't let her see any sign of moodiness. Nothing she does or doesn't do has the ability to affect you any more. You are your own man and enjoying life. Have fun. Quit thinking so hard about this. You can't decide the outcome anyway. Be you. Be fun. Be confident. And if YOU aren't what she wants, then it's her loss. I just get this half friendly, half pouty vibe from you (disagree? Why prepare her coffee before she walks in=friendly, but then act disinterested afterwards=unfriendly).

[Kakatal]

I have to say i am confused as to what I am doing. I feel that OM needs to be out of picture before I am ready to even be friends with my w. Friends do not cheat, lie or betray each other. By taking time to acknowledge her I am believe that I would be giving her mixed signals. I want her to realize that there is no friendship, she doesn't get to share her life with me if she plans on ending our m over OM

You are still reacting like an angry person. You and I (and even your wife) know that you are hung up on her. Your "we can't be friends til OM is out of the picture" comes across more as pouting to get your way. I see two ways to do this. 1) Decide you don't want a cheater for a wife and firmly and definitely kick her to the curb. No coming in the house at all, just discuss the kids, don't even make an attempt to be friendly. 2) Get it into your head that you will be the OM for a bit. You'll be friendly (although not over the top), and someone she can talk to. But you won't act like you have a stake in the outcome. Get a "I can take her or leave her" attitude. If she goes, oh well, less headaches for you; if she stays, good, you'll work on making the marriage divorce proof with her. I just don't think you can have it both ways; that's why your wife seems confused about you and wonders what's on your mind, etc...because you look interested, but moody and pouting. Either option will look more attractive than something in the middle. Be all one thing or the other.

If you choose the "friends" route (I know, it's not much of a friendship), here's my thoughts. I know there is a lot at stake here (more than there was for me), but can't you try to make this somehow fun for you? It's a challenge...rise to it. Show her that she can't crush you. Joke with her. Smile at her. Don't let her see any sign of moodiness. Nothing she does or doesn't do has the ability to affect you any more. You are your own man and enjoying life. Have fun. Quit thinking so hard about this. You can't decide the outcome anyway. Be you. Be fun. Be confident. And if YOU aren't what she wants, then it's her loss. I just get this half friendly, half pouty vibe from you (disagree? Why prepare her coffee before she walks in=friendly, but then act disinterested afterwards=unfriendly).

See, this is why I post my thoughts here! Even a co-worker said this is probably the best thing I am doing for myself in dealing with this whole sitch. Thanks PD!

You are 100% right. I am acting like a hurt angry person. Part of that wonderful behavior of getting back at your for hurting me is still controlling me. Half-pouty half-friendly. If I am confused, you are dead on that w has no clue how to deal with me.

I re-read my posts from when she returned from AK 2nd time & was feeling good about myself for just treating her the way I wanted to with no expectations, doing the right thing & feeling happy myself for being that way. Just put the hurt aside & be me.

Challenge is to temper the expectations - forget about the D entirely is probably the best mindset I can have. Been trying past couple days to just accept that D is going to happen but it isn't working - heartache is not as bad but still there - no getting much sleep either. Need to drop that act.

Thanks for helping clarifying things for me - I needed it!

[Kakatal]

Up to the minute info...

Call w to discuss daycare proposal - I'd rather do it over phone since I realize my facial expressions do more harm in a face to face conversation.

Ask w if she has any information on the insurance. W says she doesn't have any, cost $500 - doesn't have that, bad idea, just drop the whole thing. Tell her that I am just looking at this request from my perspective - that I do not want to jeopardize my house by allowing you to watch kids there, then something happens to a child & the parent looks to me to sue. W says that no child will get hurt since she won't be doing this, lady hasn't called back about needing daycare.

I tell w that I would consider letting her run the daycare again but I needed to have the insurance issue addressed. Asked her what her intent was with the business?

W gets very angry - says she can't keep begging & borrowing money from family. I have no way to pay my bills. I need money, what do you think my intent is. 3 minutes of this rant.

I tell her I understand that she is in dire straits financially. I say that I wanted to know what her intent was as to whether she would be watching more kids, getting her license back, what would happen once D was final in March.

W says she doesn't want to watch 5-6 kids again - just wants to make enough money to pay her bills. Believes the license expired in Sept. All paperwork for daycare is in home office - asked her to find license since insurance ran concurrent with licensing date - might still have insurance.

W says she doesn't know how to get a job to pay $1200 in daycare for 2 kids, that does not want to work a job just to pay the daycare costs, that she doesn't believe I have $600 to help pay for daycare. Been out of work for 6 years - not easy to go back to work.

I haven't asked you for anything. I ask her to clarify what she meant by not asking me for anything. I only made 15K a year, you made 65k. I can't get unemployment, can't get alimony. I don't want to keep talking about this since I do not want to piss you off & get you all mad.

I ask her if I sound like I am getting mad. No, just this is hard to talk about. Doorbell rings & w has to go deal with something with neighbor. Will look for license & call me back.

[Phoenixdeux]

It's fine. You did well. You didn't offer to save her. You really didn't offer to fix anything either.

Before you talk again, mull this over: You don't have to fix her situation, but you can ask questions that may prompt her to look for her own answers. You can also take this opportunity to give her some words of affirmation. I get this sense that she's starting to hit bottom.....anything about her that she's good at? Is there any way to drop in something like, "you've always been good at x"? Little words of affirmation and appreciation sometimes go a fair ways.

I know that many advocate not saving the cheater....but do consider this. When she's struggling, who did she call? When the sky is falling...wasn't it you she started opening up to? You can make a positive impression here. Don't be her savior...but you can be an ear. Give her a few kudos and she might want to keep contacting you just to get more. Let her hang up with a good impression of you...a warm and fuzzy feeling. Couldn't hurt to try it and see if it does you any good.

[Distressed67]

I am trying to find a way to not let this dominate my thoughts. Very hard. No idea how you have been able to maintain it as long as you have - kudos!!

How did I do it for so long. It was a little easier for me in the beginning. I had no idea she was talking to OM. I believed that it was just my anger issue and some minor other things that irritated her that I needed to change. I read DB in August of 2007about 4 months after I started to change myself. I busted my a** for over a year. Trying to be consistent, trying to make myself better, trying to GAL Then in 4/08 I found the text between my W and OM. It went down hill for a while after that. She had been talking to him for over a year, met him for lunch and who knows what else. I was devastated, set me back, I found this BB and someone to smack me upside the head and get me back on track.

I perused her, I questioned her, I did some stupid stuff. And each time I would post my backslides on the board he would set me straight. Talk me through things and also tell me the positive signs he saw my W doing. Just like I see in your sitch. I had a notebook that I kept a journal to track my changes and the positive exchanges between her and me. I printed off a lot of posts from this site and read them over and over to remind me that I was not alone.

I still have my bad days but they are few and far in between. It does get easier as time goes on. Your emotions are still raw and the wound still fresh when you think about it. That is where detachment comes in and taking a 24hour cooling off period to settle your emotions.

The LBS that succeed here learn to ignore what their WAS are doing and saying. They go out and GAL. They learn to detach from their S and live life for themselves. Your R is going to ebb and flow a lot over the next year or so. It’s the way it is, deal with it. You need to be the steady person because she will be all over the place. Near you one second miles away the next.

I like you wear my emotions on my sleeve and my W reads me like a book. My W also keeps her emotions well hidden. I don’t envy your position but I do see a chance if you just settle down and do what I am telling you to do.

And if you are expecting to wait until she drops the OM to start being your friend then pack a lunch my friend it is not going to happen. You need to start now and work you’re a** off because it is the only way to do it. PD is right with his post about being the OM for the time being. You don’t have a choice but I, like him, see cracks in her other R already. Don’t get your hopes up but don’t keep making him look like the better choice either.

Pay attention to her. Look her in the eye when she is talking even if she looks away, you keep looking at her. She will come back to you and if your not there she will stop talking. Act interested in what she is saying. Again PD said to not solver her problems but listen and ask relative questions to assist her in finding the solution herself. You can do it. I have faith in you because I did it and I was just as FU as you are right now and I am a lot better today then I have ever been in my life.

Tim

[Kakatal]

W left vm at work - I was out to lunch. Had a meeting so planned to call back. W calls again - asks if I got her earlier message - explain above. Says neighbor was driving home & saw a teenager sitting on block wall at back of our property. He came over to warn w & then went out there to investigate - found another kid on other side of wall - shooed her away. Thank her for informing me & said it was nice to know our neighbors are looking out for us.

W then complained how tired she was. Going to midnight showing of Twilight movie tonight. Asked her if she wanted to take a nap at house - I would take kids out so she could get some rest before the movie. W said she had plans with cousin before the movie. Said she is starting to regret buying the midnight show but what can she do now; going to be hurting tomorrow morning at 7.

W says she put pork roast in oven for me. Says it should be ready by 5. Thank her for starting dinner. Ask her if she can make noodles as well. W asks if it is ok if she eats with kids. I joke & say you sure if you pay me $1. Duh! Why I made a crack about money I don't know. Obviously didn't go over all that great but I was laughing while I said it. DUH DUH DUH. Move on from that one.

Said bye. W never brought up daycare. Might when I get home. Just need to stop on way home, decompress, clear my head & then see what happens.