Should You Be Their "Best Friend"?

[Bworl]

I think too much is made of the notion of trying to BE best friends.

As others have mentioned, THAT is something that could ONLY begin to occur LONG after the reverberations from the intial bomb have faded.

I don't think BECOMING their best friend DURING their adulterous relationship is exactly what some are proposing.

It's something more along the lines of being willing to SHOW your spouse that YOU are the FAR better option.

Given the location of your post PDT, I am currently thinking of Sleepers situation where he and his wife are divorced, she is on again, off again with an OM, and he is doing his best to be the better man with his wife.

In my opinion, he is doing a great job of showing his wife just what she has given up. And to me it seems as though it's creating progress between the two of them.

Some spouses you cannot be friendly with. MrsH's husband for example has been a textbook [censored] during their separation/divorce and it didn't matter what she did. Being friendly towards him in order to allow him to see what he was giving up was useless because of the hostility he had inside.

I like to think of it instead as finding a way to be friendly towards your spouse. It takes a lot of fortitude JUST BECAUSE of the betrayal and the pain it has brought. But there are lots of benefits, not the least of which is the possibility that your spouse might eventually realize that you were NOT the ogre they made you out to be in their mind.


I don't know. I think the overriding DB philosophy is, "if it works, keep doing it - if it doesn't, change it." If befriending your betraying spouse is leading to progress between the two of you, keep plugging away. If it isn't, try another approach.


Can't see any reason to suggest that the approach be stricken from the record. Also can't see any reason to make someone feel foolish or used because they have chosen this approach.


Bill

[Cinderellaman]

AmyC you said ...

[quote] [Hopefully it is, and that's when I think the shift to "friends" can occur. I primarily viewed Puppy's question in light of a NEW LBS, and stand by my position on telling a newcomer to try to be their wayward spouse's friend could be too damaging in the beginning.
/quote]


I agree with you. In the beginning I really tried hard to be H's friend through it all, and through the pain, but it's too self destructive. Now, with more time, distance and detachment a friendship is slowly growing and possible.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy, it's NOT "right" for a person to do that to you.

But there IS a lot of gray area when it comes to relationships.

Because for one, there are levels of "betrayal".
Before the Great Betrayal (your wife's adultery) in what ways might you have betrayed the fundamental trust she had in you?

Amy, just for the record, since I was really speaking broadly and to one one's particular sitch with this thread:

In my case, my wife's chief complaints were that I spent too much time at the ballfields (coaching our two sons), and that I spent too much time on my laptop (on the couch across from her as she watched her TV shows in the evenings). #3 would probably be that I stopped complimenting her as much.

No drinking, no drugs, no abuse, no adultery on my part, nor any other major grievances. Two months before her affair started she was still handwriting me beautiful notes inside of Valentine's and anniversary cards. We had a long-term SSM, but that was more her issue than it was mine, in terms of each of our level of satisfaction with the amount of LM in the marriage.

I don't buy the moral equivalency of that, nor did any of either of our family members.

This is a fascinating discussion, which is why I started the thread. I'm with Bworl in that I think the overriding issue is whether or not it's "working," not whether or not it's "right" .... so long as you define "working" as a sincere and MEANINGFUL move by the adulterous spouse back toward the marriage. The error that I see many BS newbies making is that they say "it's working" because their WAS is "being nice" to them, or "we had a nice evening," etc. Then the next day, that same WAS wakes up, and makes the conscious decision to continue in their affair.

I think a lot of it depends also on what the marital relationship was like PRIOR to the one spouse's affair. If the couple had a problem being "best friends" before, then I think it's in the BS's best interest to display those qualities in front of their WAS now in order to "be the better option." But if that wasn't an issue at all in the marriage before .... or, if anything, if the BS was perhaps TOO passive, TOO pleasing, TOO "Mr. Nice Guy" ... then I absolutely think the strategy can backfire, big-time, and that the WAS will actually respond more to NEWFOUND STRENGTH and some DISTANCE.

For the most part, people want what they can't seemingly have, sadly.

Puppy

[AmyC]

Puppy I did not say that the acknowledged failures on your part were the moral equivalent of her adultery. They absolutely are NOT the same! She blew it in a much more devastating way than you did, yes.

But what'd that awareness get you - or anyone else?
Not a damn thing.
Puppy, I really don't know your sitch well enough to comment on it personally but what I do know is this: if you believe in your heart that your marriage can be saved then you will move heaven and earth to stand long enough to see it happen. And if you get sick and tired of standing, you will stop. And it is not for me or anyone else to try to make you change your mind no matter WHAT you choose to do. If you are looking for something to believe in here at this website or from the people here, you are going to be terribly disappointed because you can only find that by looking inward (and upward, if you are so inclined).

People have the ability to overcome tremendous hurts caused by one another. What is required first before that can happen is a genuine and expressed regret on the part of the wrongdoer. Absent that, well...who the hell I am to tell you what you ought to do other than try to forgive her in your own heart for YOUR OWN SAKE? There's nothing else I CAN tell you. And I sure as hell ain't gonna tell you that you HAVE to be her friend because you do not.

Take care,


AmyC

[naej]

Wow great thread, saw it spoken of on another thread so quickly skimmed.
One thing I have wondered is would Imageer feel as he does if his wife had had an affair with a man, would knowing that that relationship ie hetro possibly produce children make him feel differently or would his pride/manhood whatever, have been hurt more had it been a man.

The other point I am unsure of is Is MLC / Infidelity really an illness,most times these people function on every other level just as normal even though they display signs of depression or eratic behaviour to their spouse. Not true depression in my book more like guilt showing through when they are confronted by the reality of their actions. I know this does not apply to all but in more cases than we are led to believe.

Again the "its takes two to break up a marriage", inferring both partners led to it's demise. Well maybe it does take 2 but that is usually when there are 3 people in that marriage.

I agree forgiveness is necessary at some point for our own sakes,not the WAW, but even that has to be furthur down the road.
I worry that openly being WAW's best friend is betraying our own moral code especially when young children are involved. What example to we set to them. This is complicated and a very grey area. we need to show forgiveness,we need to keep a relationship going between WAW's and their children,we do not want to bad mouth or WAW's but neither to we want to convey that this acceptable behaviour.

Many WAW's simply do not want to be friends with their partners.
Cordiality I think is the key, taking the moral high ground and being as civil as possible.

I could never ever be a listening ear for my x's problems certainly not those that involved OP. The hurt and pain would be too great.Just my POV.

I accept my relatives faults and flaws (as they do mine) because we are related. I am much more selective over who I have as a friend.Friendship and especially best friend is a two way street, confidences are shared, you love and support each other. Being best friends with your x is a one way street because how do you confide all the hurt and pain you are in because of them. You can't so you keep it in, that is to me dishonesty. Not a basis for a friendship.

Gosh didn't realise I had typed so much. Sorry.
Will read with interest others POV.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I agree forgiveness is necessary at some point for our own sakes,not the WAW, but even that has to be furthur down the road.
I worry that openly being WAW's best friend is betraying our own moral code especially when young children are involved. What example to we set to them. This is complicated and a very grey area. we need to show forgiveness,we need to keep a relationship going between WAW's and their children,we do not want to bad mouth or WAW's but neither to we want to convey that this acceptable behaviour.

I agree with this. While everyone loves to quote Jesus forgiving the adultress (and it is a beautiful story of love and forgiveness), He also said "Go and sin no more." If the sinner persists in their sin, yes, we are to forgive "70 times 7" times, but nowhere are we commanded to be their friends. Men are commanded to love their wives unconditionally, and women are commanded to respect their husbands unconditionally. But nothing is said about "friendship."

I think "civility and forgiveness and Christian love" is appropriate. Saying "I'm sorry to see you hurting" is good; saying "Tell me about OM/OW, and the problems you are having," -- that becomes emasculating to a man, and destructive to a woman as well, in my belief.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy I did not say that the acknowledged failures on your part were the moral equivalent of her adultery. They absolutely are NOT the same! She blew it in a much more devastating way than you did, yes.

I'm sorry, then, I misunderstood you when you said this:

When you TRULY accept your role in where your marriage is at today, you will see that this is not a system of points, where she got more demerits because her indiscretion was WORSE. They are ALL bad. ALL of our failures in ALL of our relationships are ALL bad and they added up to what brought us here. No one got here by their spouse's hand alone. We ALL helped steer our respective "ships" into the rocks.

The two seem to contradict each other.

Puppy

[AmyC]

Puppy I did not say that the acknowledged failures on your part were the moral equivalent of her adultery. They absolutely are NOT the same! She blew it in a much more devastating way than you did, yes.

I'm sorry, then, I misunderstood you when you said this:

When you TRULY accept your role in where your marriage is at today, you will see that this is not a system of points, where she got more demerits because her indiscretion was WORSE. They are ALL bad. ALL of our failures in ALL of our relationships are ALL bad and they added up to what brought us here. No one got here by their spouse's hand alone. We ALL helped steer our respective "ships" into the rocks.

The two seem to contradict each other.

Puppy

They don't contradict one another, Puppy.
Nothing you did or didn't do justifies your wife screwing around.
She SHOULD have been big enough to say something before she felt lonely enough (or whatever) to become open to adultery. But did she have the tools that YOU now possess from being here? See, I learned this from my sister Puppy. Her husband basically ignored her, worked late (really) more often than he came home, then stuck his nose in the tv. He only really interacted with her at church (back in the day) and at family events. My sister was a long-sufferer. 17 years. And she never said a word and NO ONE knew how much she hurt. How alone she felt. Then along came a wolf in sheeps clothing. And her marriage was destroyed. My brother in law learned too little too late and as my sister put it, there was too much water and not enough bridge.

They are divorcing now and get along well.
They both have multiple regrets.
I can't count the number of times I've heard them both say "If only....".

My brother-in-law did not cause my sister to step outside her marriage vows. But no one caused him to leave her alone and take her for granted for the last 10 years of their marriage either.

If you need to blame one of them, I suppose my sister should bear the brunt of it.

But life just ain't that black and white, Puppy.

[Imageer]

One thing I have wondered is would Imageer feel as he does if his wife had had an affair with a man

I have thought about this in the past and I can honestly say that it might effect the way I deal with this. I really don't know. I can only deal with the hand that I have been given.

In the case of my W, I do believe that she is ill. Her actions go far beyond her and I. Since this has happened, she has neglecting the kids, Spent months having panic attacks and most recently lost her job.

I truly believe that she needs compassion rather than an advesary.

It is also 100% true that it takes 2 to put us where we are. Yes my W cheated and is having an A but I am not even remotely innocent in the events that put us here.

[Dawn of Hope]

The other point I am unsure of is Is MLC / Infidelity really an illness,most times these people function on every other level just as normal even though they display signs of depression or eratic behaviour to their spouse. Not true depression in my book more like guilt showing through when they are confronted by the reality of their actions. I know this does not apply to all but in more cases than we are led to believe.

True in my case. My H is almost completely his usual "life of the party," caretaking, kind and thoughtful, good-listener self with everyone but me, as far as I can see (not that we spend a lot of time together, regardless of whether other people are around). To my knowledge, he hasn't lost friends, his job, his birth family's regard, etc. (most of those people don't know about this stuff that he's doing). I haven't had anyone come up to me and say in confidence, "What's wrong with H? He seems unhappy." I wonder how much of it is a mask and how much is just that he's unhappy being alone with me and relatively happy the rest of the time. Is MLC an illness? I have no idea, but the actions of those who are afflicted with it are eerily similar (i.e. the "script" of things that LBS's hear from their MLCers).

Again the "its takes two to break up a marriage", inferring both partners led to it's demise. Well maybe it does take 2 but that is usually when there are 3 people in that marriage.

This may be a partial solution to the conundrum I have been wrestling with for quite some time now: Some people say that it takes two to make a marriage work. Some people (maybe the same ones) say that it takes two to break a marriage. Can both of those be true? I have long wondered...how does it shake out if one is trying to make it work and the other isn't? I suppose you can figure out the answer by just looking around this board and seeing the variety of end results for people who have at one point been in that sitch. And those of us who are on this board came here because we believed (or at least hoped) that MWD was right, and one person's actions CAN save a flatlining M. But I tend to believe that it isn't quite that simple.

Any insight from the wise ones here?

Peace,
Dawn