New Me - Will WAW ever notice?

[Kakatal]

I'd have to agree with Tim; you are making the OM look great by comparison. You are lashing out and really looking like a hurt little boy. How is anything you are doing different than when you were married? She's sounding like the one more put together and you the one falling apart. She must feel something for you or she'd have told you to take a hike. Although, she wants something from you, so she'll be on her best behavior.

I'd have to agree with Tim too!

So my question: Do you still want her?

If the answer is yes, then you need to start changing your approach. [\quote]

Yes I would like her to want to work on our m.

[quote=Phoenixdeux]
1) Quit with the ignoring her stuff. To me it shows you are pouting, not detaching. Detached is the ability to act like she's important, without showing you are hung up on her. It's a fine line to walk. It's taking a moment to say, "Hi, how was your day? How are you doing? What's up?", rather than walking on by, grunting, and acting like you don't have time for her. You take that moment to talk, and then move on. It's the ability to listen to her without having a personal stake in the outcome. If this was a friend at work telling you how broke they were and feeling bad, how would you handle it?

I really have not changed my approach with her in being friendly, asking how she is doing, etc. Guess I gave the wrong impression as to how our interaction came about last night. I had some negative stuff going through my head that I should have dealt with before I came in the door. I did ask how she was doing, that she looked like she had a rough day, etc. I am not just ignoring her, walking past her as if she doesn't exist..that would be too much like my old self. But I do see that I need to control my emotions better & get into a calm state of mind before interacting with her.

2) Quit with the digs. It's not going to win her back. You don't have to accept her chatting with OM in front of you, but otherwise you need to be strong. Control the urge to force OM out of her life and just be the attractive alternative. Some attention, more confidence, friendly, smile, but not hung up on her.

I do not bring up nor discuss OM. Even when her phone went off I didn't say a word. But I am positive the look on my face said it all.

[Kakatal]

3) This issue with the babysitting is tricky. What if a close friend had a similar issue and asked to use your house. What would you do? Take everything out of the equation. Remove the fact that this is your wife, she's got OM, and you feel rejected out of this. What would you do if this was a friend? Personally, if it were me (and the insurance was possible), I would say yes. Is that the right thing? I don't know, but I do know that she a) tolerates your digs, which is a good sign, b) turned to you for help (rather than someone else), c) you aren't on unfriendly terms and d) It will give you a little time, every day, to show her a guy who is strong enough to be around his wife, listen, and show loving detachment (without going overboard), rather than the boy that is lashing out, tilting at windmills. This thing with OM will end. She might not even have to move to AK before that happens. Would you like to be the guy that she picked over OM?

PD I see you points. I'd like to post how i see things & then let you & Tim beat me up some more!

W is divorcing me - already filed & in the works. Has a BF whom she is still in contact with & not interested in making any attempt to work on our m. Why should I make it easier for her to continue her affair? If this OM is so great go ask him for money. He is willing to buy your tits, I am sure he can afford to pay your bills.

I do not see the benefit to myself in helping her with the daycare. I could really care less about any money she may be provide me from the proceeds of her business. Liability is a huge issue since I do not want to jeopardize the house me & my kids live in. I do not have my space now as it is since she is at house in mornings & when I get home, just like it was before she left on her last trip. Basically she has been able to sooth the situation to get it back to the same level it was before she went on her last trip. And I ate up her kindness hook, line & sinker so she still knows she has me wrapped around her finger. Now that she has that knowledge, OM can come back into picture for her since she realizes I will just do whatever to win her back. Feel like I will just end up getting used.

If I do not agree to help her she is going to resent it. So what? She is already divorcing me so nothing is going to change there. Feel w is looking to me to bail her out, using the kids as leverage. Will lay huge guilt trip on me if we have to put kids in daycare so she can work a 9-5 job to pay her bills saying that I am preventing her from seeing the kids.

Puppy had a quote about never rescuing a cheater from the consequences of their actions. I feel this is appropriate in my circumstances. W does not want to work on m, does not want to give up OM, so what does it really do for me to help her? The only way she is ever going to grow up, figure out what is important in her life is for her to hit rock bottom. Why should I prevent that from happening?

When I read your post PD I can see those positives but I just do not know if they are really going to make any difference and will probably do myself more harm in creating another false sense of hope. I am tired of deluding myself & really abusing myself with hope that things will work out.

[Kakatal]

K,

Here is what you do from now on. On your way home from work is there a park or something close to your house you can stop at. If there is go there when you know your W will be at the house. Get out and take a 10 to 15 minute walk. Smell the fresh air, take deep breaths and let the pressures of work out with each breath. Then proceed home with a clear head and a renewed PMA.

Make sure its close to home so you don't end up back in traffic but far enough away that your W does not know your there. Also if you don't expect her to be there and she is you can go back, decompress then face her.

Try it, it will help.

Thanks Tim. There is a park at the end of my street that I pass every time I drive home. It is going to become my personal sanctuary to find my inner peace.

[Phoenixdeux]

Kakatal,

I do see your point and I do think that it's perfectly reasonable not to be used. What would the old you have done? What would the you that hasn't had a lot of success done? If it's being Mr. Nice guy and helping her out, then perhaps the hard stand is the better choice. I'm struggling with this though because I haven't got the vibe from her that she's as far gone as some. She isn't nasty and angry. She allowed the argument to get smoothed over. It is a lot to ask of you though.

In the end, you have to do what is best for you, regardless of her. If you've reached a point where you say, "I'm done with you unless you are done with OM", then go ahead and tell her that you aren't interested. Say, "do you think that this would be reasonable if we were divorced, as we appear to be headed for?" If you are going to say no, then don't make it about OM or how he should help her out financially. Make it about you and your boundaries. "We are divorcing. You set me free. I set you free. I'm not indifferent or unsympathetic with your plight, but you made this decision and I respect that. You'll need to figure out a different way to make this work for you." Whatever. I'm no good at this kind of thing.

I'm trying to be Mr. good little DBer even though I know there is no way I wouldn't kick my wife to the curb and quit worrying about how she was fairing. I just didn't feel comfortable suggesting that to you because of what I saw as positives that you could maybe start from. Puppy might have a better idea...and probably not rescuing her is more wise. Sorry to be wishy-washy...I'm really having a hard time with your situation.

[Kakatal]

I do see your point and I do think that it's perfectly reasonable not to be used. What would the old you have done?

Old me - she would have had her crap in the front yard back in July & never allowed to set foot in my house. Glad to have moved way past that person

What would the you that hasn't had a lot of success done? If it's being Mr. Nice guy and helping her out, then perhaps the hard stand is the better choice. I'm struggling with this though because I haven't got the vibe from her that she's as far gone as some. She isn't nasty and angry. She allowed the argument to get smoothed over. It is a lot to ask of you though.

Thing is she does lead me to believe that she hasn't truly made up her mind about what she wants. She says she has things she needs to work out. She is trying keep things as civil as she can but why, I can only speculate - guilt, feels sorry to be cause of my pain, for the kids, doesn't want to totally close the door...who knows.

I believe she needs IC. I have offered to this for her - I will get reimbursed so I am not losing $$$ - just so that she can get some unbiased help. Not going to suggest it again since she has the information. But her inaction just tells me she isn't ready to change.

In the end, you have to do what is best for you, regardless of her. If you've reached a point where you say, "I'm done with you unless you are done with OM", then go ahead and tell her that you aren't interested. Say, "do you think that this would be reasonable if we were divorced, as we appear to be headed for?" If you are going to say no, then don't make it about OM or how he should help her out financially. Make it about you and your boundaries. "We are divorcing. You set me free. I set you free. I'm not indifferent or unsympathetic with your plight, but you made this decision and I respect that. You'll need to figure out a different way to make this work for you." Whatever. I'm no good at this kind of thing.

Sunday I thought I was pretty clear that when I told her that I just do not see her ever giving us a 2nd chance, that I do not believe she has it in her to change & see me for who I am now. I am not going to be your fall back option. Just want to move on with my life & have accepted that D is going to happen. Grateful for it since I have become such a better person & father.

I do not talk about OM so no need to make any ultimatum there. I do like asking her how she sees this arrangement working once D is final in March. And I also like your response about the boundaries. Don't knock yourself - you give great advice here to all!

I'm trying to be Mr. good little DBer even though I know there is no way I wouldn't kick my wife to the curb and quit worrying about how she was fairing. I just didn't feel comfortable suggesting that to you because of what I saw as positives that you could maybe start from. Puppy might have a better idea...and probably not rescuing her is more wise. Sorry to be wishy-washy...I'm really having a hard time with your situation.

Well if you are having a hard time, just imagine how I feel!

I am not going to bring this up with her - she will have to ask if I have made a decision. I do empathize with her, want to help. But I keep thinking about the impact on our kids.

Right now they get all of mom's time & attention during the day. If she starts watching other kids, then they have to share her again. W made a huge issue of being drained at end of day & not having anything left for our kids. So allowing her to run the daycare again is going to bring back those feelings in her of being trapped in the house, situation, etc. except for the marriage. Don't think that would be fair to her or kids.

Conversely, putting kids into daycare would not allow her time to be with them. But we had discussed putting S4 back into daycare few times a week in order to get him acclimated to school setting since he will be starting kindergarten next Sept. D2 would be going into daycare full time next Sept so she would just have to start earlier than expected. All that is predicated on w finding a full time 9-5 job - kinda of difficult in these economic times but not impossible.

[Kakatal]

W calls to let me know she doesn't have to work tonight. Asks if I am still getting my haircut - don't know yet, will call. Little chit chat about kids - says she hasn't killed them yet. They went swimming in spa. I act surprised - she asks why - just say I haven't been in spa in month, glad to see someone is using it. W then says that kids are fine - didn't kill them. I ask if she was planning on killing them. She laughs & says that she just meant that kids survived playing in spa.

W added water & checked chemicals in spa - thank her for checking that. W says she did our laundry but I have to fold & put it away - thank her for that as well. I yawn - w asks if I was up late last night. I tell her I didn't get much sleep - have a lot on my mind. She asks like what.

I just say that I am trying to figure out why I wear my emotions on my face & act the way I do sometimes. Said that I was able to be calm & talk to you last night but that I really want to be able to just be that way from the get go. Asked her if I wore my emotions on my face all the time.

W says - you mean how you react without thinking. I said yes I realize I do that. What I was referring to is if I wear my emotions on my face so everyone can see. I say that I feel this is part of my old defensive mechanism to keep people away from me. Just look at my face & you can see that I am in no mood to be dealt with. W says that I always get a smug look in my face - a short look with an air about me that just conveys that I am pissed off about something. I thank her for validating what I was thinking about.

W has to go to get lunch for kids - says nice talking - me too.
I know I have it in me to have a civil, upbeat discussion with my w. I do not see the negatives about having her validate what I know to be a problem I have with my behavior. I think that shows her that I am aware of it & now I have to make changes, something I need to change for me since it is a bad fault of mine that needs improvement.

[SingleDad]

Kakatal - I am amazed at how well your are getting along with your W who is divorcing you for another man.

My W is doing the same thing to me - and I mostly react with anger, clinginess, and dwell on my own loneliness.

I just do not know how so many people are so easily able to adjust and accept the new reality.

I am trying to GAL and DBing... but deep down I am resentful and lonely. I am trying to accept things and get along with my WAW for the sake of our daughter, but I do not find that easy to do - it's like giving her the "ok" to her choices.

I know I have no chance even years from now if I cannot get back to being friends with her.

So my hats offf to you - you are doing a great job DBing.

[Distressed67]

W says - you mean how you react without thinking.

Wonder where you heard that one before?

W has to go to get lunch for kids - says nice talking - me too.
I know I have it in me to have a civil, upbeat discussion with my w.

Yes you do. You can do it.

I do not see the negatives about having her validate what I know to be a problem I have with my behavior. I think that shows her that I am aware of it & now I have to make changes, something I need to change for me since it is a bad fault of mine that needs improvement.

Yes it does. Now you know that she knows that you know what your problems are so no more discussions on them. Knowing is half the battle the other half is doing. Your done with the first now do the second. Actions not words from here on out.

Tim

[Kakatal]

W says - you mean how you react without thinking.

Wonder where you heard that one before?

Hmm, from you? PD? Everyone here?

Yes it does. Now you know that she knows that you know what your problems are so no more discussions on them. Knowing is half the battle the other half is doing. Your done with the first now do the second. Actions not words from here on out.

Tim

Will Do! Just was making a point that I was showing her that I am aware of my behavior now instead of being clueless about it.

What is your take on the whole daycare issue?

[Distressed67]

Yes it does. Now you know that she knows that you know what your problems are so no more discussions on them. Knowing is half the battle the other half is doing. Your done with the first now do the second. Actions not words from here on out.

Tim

Will Do! Just was making a point that I was showing her that I am aware of my behavior now instead of being clueless about it.

What is your take on the whole daycare issue?

I was trying to write something but I just can't get it to sound right about a paten that seems to happen here on the boards. Once I do you will understand my response to this question.

I feel that you are not enabling her or being taken advantage of by allowing her to watch the kids at your house. Now that depends on the liability and insurance issue of course. That is very important to this decision. But I say let her do it.

Here is what I see as the positives. You know that your kids will be well taken care of during the day. You will not have to cart them off to daycare everyday. If they are sick you do not need to stay home from work. If you need to work late you do not need to find someone to pick them up. Your W will have all day and them and you will have all night. You will be able to show off your changes and best side each and every day.

Either way your W needs to get a job and make money, why not make it easy on yourself and her. Let her deal with the issues she had before with being a daycare provider it’s no longer your concern, right.

You have to coexist with the woman for the rest of your life. Think about that. You can be bitter and resentful and let it slowly eat you alive or you can be the bigger person and be civil and understanding to her.

Yes, it sucks big time but what will really get her and this will not happen for a while is that when you do find that inner peace and strength and the ability to make yourself happy she will be the same unhappy person she was before. She has not changed or grown, she has only switched dancing partners and he can no more make her happy than you can. Fantasy remember.

Let her cake eat at the moment. It won’t last. Your posts and how you describe your interactions and her responses leads me to believe she is already starting to question her choices. I think after she got back from AK last time she was starting to see the reality of it sink in. That much time away from your kids and that much distance between family is tough. I know there is no way I could live that long without my kids, how about you?

Unfortunately for you your hopes got up and then you crashed and backslide. You did not stay consistent. Consistency is the most important part of all this. When you waver it confuses her and makes her believe your changes are not permanent and if she opens her heart to you she will be hurt again. Nobody wants to go through that again.

You have been here three month now. That is not enough time to change yourself and become consistent with those changes. You have proven that over the last week. You have a ways to go and she has a ways to go to learn how to trust you again. Get back to what was working, get rid of expectations, stop worrying about the impending D and stop worrying about what she does outside of your kids. She will continue to test you and if you keep reverting back to your old ways her fears will be confirmed.

Whether you get a D or not does not matter at this moment. You and all the other LBS are wasting way too much energy on the what if's in your life you cannot control. You’re not giving your W money, your not paying for her plane tickets or anything else for that matter so you’re not supporting her choices. You think this is all fun and games for her but its not. She is torn up inside but she is a lot better at hiding her emotions than you are.

I’m going to repeat this one more time. Your need to learn Patience and Consistency and you need to Detach yourself from her, you need to find how to make yourself happy and finally you need to give it Time. Three months is a sprint, one year or more is a marathon. Either your in it for the long haul or your not. There is no in between. Its going to be difficult, your going to get hurt but in the end you will be the best possible person you can be whether its with your W, alone or with someone else.

Take time and think about what you want and what the best way to get it is. Whether you want your W back or not you still need to co parent with her and its much easier if you are nice to her than if your not. Its also easier on the kids.

Take care and good luck.

Tim