Maybe I should be in piecing part 3?

[breakaway]

I've tried that "you can never have contact with him again" route and she just saw that as me controlling her.

I think you're way of putting it is better, H4U. It doesn't make it a line in the sand when you don't have to do it that way. There is NO POINT in saying you can never have contact and now you won't. It is both going to FEEL controlling, and FEEL like, instead of not trusting her, that you think she can't control herself. Maybe you do think that but there is no value in telling her so.

Keep it about you as you have been doing. IMHO...

[Hope4us]

Thanks Break.

I have some thinking to do. It seems to me that we're past the demanding NC point. Maybe it's a mistake, but I see us at a point where she's NC or mostly NC (given OM has moved on to the next love of his life) and is watching me to see if I will revert to doing the things she's complained about.

Is that fair? No. Does it seem like I'm the one doing everything and she's just sitting back enjoying the ride? Yes. Two quotes that I've read come to mind. "do you want to be right or do you want to be married"? And "Many times the betrayed partner will have to do all the work without getting any of their needs met until the wayward heals sufficiently and completes withdrawal from the OP".

I think the first quote bout sums up my sitch. And you don't know how hard that is for me. There have been so many times that I've wanted to scream "I know I made some mistakes, but if you think our life was so terrible, then get the F out". And I don't know, maybe that would work, but knowing how bullheaded W is, I don't think she'd react the way I want her to if I said that.

So...I'll have to think about it. I just know that it seems that W is opening up to me slowly, oh so slowly, and right now I don't think she needs the pressuring kind of talk. Just reinforces one of her complaints. And she's probably right about that. In my family, my mom and dad would argue about something, it would be solved and they'd move on. I LOVE a good arguement. W hate them. Her family is so conflict avoiding it isn't even funny. I need to learn (and I'm getting there) that W doesn't respond to the arguing that is normal in my family. And I'm not talking like fighting-arguing. Just making points and arguing it out until it's figured out. W feels like if anyone challenges her on a thought, they're putting her down and I LIKE it when someone challenges me on a thought, it gets me thinkin!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I've tried that "you can never have contact with him again" route and she just saw that as me controlling her. She isn't as smart as the people on this board that know that NC is the only way we'll ever have a chance.

You're both 14 months into this, H4U. Isn't it high time she learned that??

What she then decides to DO with that knowledge is completely up to her, but she seems to me to be forever driving 70mph thru the 55mph zone, and it's no longer OK for her to simply say "I didn't know," nor is it for you to let her off that easy in her ignorance.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I've tried that "you can never have contact with him again" route and she just saw that as me controlling her.

I think you're way of putting it is better, H4U. It doesn't make it a line in the sand when you don't have to do it that way. There is NO POINT in saying you can never have contact and now you won't. It is both going to FEEL controlling, and FEEL like, instead of not trusting her, that you think she can't control herself. Maybe you do think that but there is no value in telling her so.

I strongly disagree. If H4U's wife needs to be spending these past 14 months figuring out if she is willing to do the hard work that's necessary, along with H4U, then she needs to know clearly what the roadmap is going to be. And 100% no-contact, with full transparency, is absolutely essential.

This isn't a stylistic point, or a "how-it-comes-across" issue. This is the reality of what H4U needs in order for him to stay in the marriage after his wife's infidelity. I called "bullchit" because I saw him as dancing-on-eggshells around the issue, and trying to say "Oh, this is just ME," rather than putting more responsibility on his wife.

For God's sake, the woman hasn't even read one chapter of one BOOK at this point about how the marriage got to where it is, what her role was, and what she can do to learn about herself to make sure it doesn't happen again. I just respectfully feel like we're long past the time for "Ooooh, let's not spook her!" at this point.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

I hear ya Pup. The thing is, I've asked her a number of times the last few months (but not for a month or so) if she's talked to OM. And her reply is always, "I haven't talked to him in months". I've told her more times than I can count that the only way we're going to have a chance is if she never sees or talks in any way to him.

So what good would it do to pressure her into agreeing to something that she claims is in place anyway? If she's truly NC, then me demanding NC would just push her the wrong way. If she's NC with an occasional email/IM chat, she's not going to tell me anyway, so I'm just not sure what good it would do to say it. It just seems that me demanding something she already claims is in place would reinforce to her that I'm controlling. That's why I was thinking if (only if it comes up with her balking at moving) she questions me as to why I want to move, that I tell her it's for MY healing. Take the pressure off of her.

I know you disagree, but I need to play this the way I think would work best in my sitch. Don't know which way I'll go yet. May be a game time decision based on how she reacts the next day or so when I get more details on the timing, how she feels about a mid school year move vs. an end of the year move.

[Hope4us]

You're more worked up about it than I am Pup.

Maybe I'm becoming detached enough (yeah right) that I really don't care at this point. If she doesn't want to do what's needed, then ok, leave.

I think my W is a combo WAW, EA/PA wife. And I see a difference in the way they should be handled. It feels like to me, that she's no longer an EA/PA wife, but is still in WA mode which I think if I've learned correctly, needs TIME more than anything.

Or am I just all wet?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I hear ya Pup. The thing is, I've asked her a number of times the last few months (but not for a month or so) if she's talked to OM. And her reply is always, "I haven't talked to him in months". I've told her more times than I can count that the only way we're going to have a chance is if she never sees or talks in any way to him.

So what good would it do to pressure her into agreeing to something that she claims is in place anyway? If she's truly NC, then me demanding NC would just push her the wrong way. If she's NC with an occasional email/IM chat, she's not going to tell me anyway, so I'm just not sure what good it would do to say it.

Because, that is playing with fire. I have agreed with you, for practical reasons and based on how well YOU have been able to handle it (trust me, you are RARE -- most would crumple after 3-5 months). But I was basing this new hard-line stance solely on the potential new reality of them working at the refinery together. If that doesn't happen, I could be persuaded that the "implied no-contact contract" that you are your wife are under is workable. But her weekday mood swings still concern me, and the thought of both of them at the work location together would be a dealbreaker, if it were me.

Then again, it's NOT me, and I understand and respect that you have to do what you feel is best. I'z just callin' 'em as I'z seez 'em.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Oh, it is a deal breaker. That's why I've said that we're probably arguing about nothing (not that I don't like a good arguement). She said last night that she didn't want to move, but she "had no choice" and would move either when her Temp assignment is over or when the school year is over.

If she balks at moving after I've already moved, then I'll have my answer and I can move on.

So either way I have my answer. She moves with us which tells me she's at least willing to try or she balks at moving which tells me she's either waiting on OM or she's ready to move on.

[Hope4us]

And you know I highly respect your opinions Pup. Don't know what I'd do without you. You pushed me when I first came her to be firm with her and it seems to have worked.

And her weekday mood swings concern me also, but there are many valid arguements for why those are happening. And with this temporary assignment a number of them should be answered.

Pieces of the puzzle that could fit in with the Temp assign: Different building from where OM and her worked together. Different building from where EGF is. Not looking at the affair present everyday. Working in a job that is more in line with her talents and around true professionals that she's more comfortable with, not the ding dongs she works with now.

Pieces that won't fit: Not enough sleep. IM/EMAIL with OM.

Now I just need to figure out what is the best way forward.

[breakaway]

Hey, I was just listening to Sarah McLachlan (one of my faves)...this song made me think of you and your W, and a few others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMuEw-9t9Xs&feature=related

The only thing I'm going to add to the previous discussion is that you should trust yourself, which you seem capable of doing.

Certain people's answers are always going to be, in the end, show her who's boss. So I have nothing else to say.

peace out, brothah