any experience with this?

[still hopeful]

Hello again, rop.

I will break down my response to you so that I can be sure to hit all the points with you that I want to and to be sure it makes sense and is not too convoluted.

My D process and current status has been long and windy. I look back at all that we have been through as individuals and as a couple and it makes me hurt and dizzy. I did not know her well enough to marry her or have children with her, but here we are. It pierces my heart that our broken marriage means a broken home for our perfect children.

Despite everything, and despite the loving talks and comments from my friends, family and loved ones, I still DO hold out hope for a reconciliation, no matter how unlikely my rational self tells me that that pipe dream is.

I do still love her. Even tough our M ended, I hold onto the hope that XW will grow and mature from who she has been to be the person who I believe she is able to be. My counselor told me that XW repeatedly SHOWED me WHO she is with her behavior and incessant lying.

A good friend that I met here helped me get through the worst of it, (and I know he is still on the board helping others) and he watched me change and grow. He told me that as long as I continue to learn, question and grow as a man(while she stays the same) that I will eventually simply outgrow her. Well, I have grown a great deal, and yet, I still hold on.... Go figure.

To me that means that 1) a haven't grown as much as I will and still need to grow and that 2) I still haven't reached a place in my life that allows me to let go. But every day, I work on going forward, focusing on my children and myself, trying to heal enough to let go because XW makes no show that she wants to sort us out, heal and go forward together. Enough about me and my story, but my story does play a LARGE role in what I think and how I respond.

ON TO YOU:
1. XW seems unstable to you, however, she is doing what SHE wants to do based on HER decisions and her single reality, and your thoughts on her behavior are being seen through YOUR lenses which are colored by:
a) what YOU want,
b) your passing judgment over her,
c) your unhealed hurts,
d) your off the charts anxiety and fears,
e) your anger,
f) your need to feel power and control over her (which you never had, according to you),
g) your jealousy of OM and what you imagine OM and XW have, and
h) your unforgiveness of her

2. SELF CONTROL- doing what you ought to do instead of what you want to do. Please, work on breathing deeply BEFORE you say or do anything when your emotions are running loose and your behavior AND MOUTH are about to go on 'autopilot.' I take a HUGE deep breath, smile gently and countdown from 5 in my mind to catch my thoughts and dissipate any demons inside of me that may have grabbed control of my mouth. The calmness and the smile drive my XW crazy and she gets pissed.

I just stay calm and respond when I have control of me. XW used to keep poking at me because invariably, she would get my REACTION and she would get her rush from an argument. Now I just stay calm and RESPOND. If she won't relent, I simply tell her that it's time for me to leave. I know, since it takes TWO people to fight, with my leaving, she will have to fight with herself. Then I just go. I am calm. If she chooses to me, she's till upset.

This will help you to keep from digging holes for yourself and then needing to apologize for saying or doing something as a REACTION.

3. Don't read anything into your interactions with XW, neither positive nor negative. I simply chalk them up to exactly what they are, either a nice interactions or a crappy one. What I have learned to stop doing is giving BS plus points for a positive interaction and feeling really crappy from a negative one. Either way, I allowed MY feelings to be affected by XW's mood and behavior, even when I KNEW I hadn't done anything to bring on her lousy behavior.

The harder one for me, believe it or not, was NOT reading anything into a positive interaction and falsely getting my hopes up, only to be crushed in the next interaction because of the BS I had allowed to loop between my ears. Don't do this. File your interactions under labels of either, 1)Hmmm, that was nice, or 2) Hmmm, that sucked. File it, close the drawer and go on about YOUR day. Recognize it put it away. Don't dwell on it.

4. I am happy to hear that you are working on YOU. Nice. If you don't have Michelle's books, you may want to get them and focus on staying solution-oriented for yourself and for your relationship with your XW. Whether she and you give it another go or not, you and your relationships will benefit from a better you.

Speaking of a better you. Are you working to improve yourself personally. Doing that type of work is your gift to you. Whatever you do to improve you, you get to keep and reap the benefits. Since you are similar to me in still being open to reconciling your M, you would benefit greatly from David Cunningham's email blog, which can be found at makingherhappydotcom. <--this address needs a leading WorldWideWeb and a 'period' to replace the dot. You can subscribe for the email at no cost and check it out. Fantastic relationship insight and direction to point you in the direction of eliminating any wussy behavioral qualities you may have and my still display towards the women in your life.

5. Are you working on your spirit? What is your religion?

6. Focus on your children. They are little bowls with lots of little holes in the bottom. Those little holes allow love to drain out and they need to be filled with love constantly because you don't want them to run out of love or feel like their 'love bowl' is running low. Develop more patience with them than you ever thought you could possess. Remember, you are their father, NOT their friend. Love them, nurture them, play with them, keep them safe, teach them, direct them, correct them. They will have lots of friends in their lives; they'll only have ONE dad. YOU! This is a crappy time for them. Being part of a broken family sucks for them. Make the best for them of their less than ideal situation. Lots of love will do the most for them to heal themselves.

RESPONSES to MY QUESTIONS TO YOU:
1. It not be your right to know WHO the OM is. If he has 'issues' like my XW's DH#3 (<--my affectionate moniker for XW's various FotMs), sometimes they are truly criminals. It's your right to know that, but even then, you'll have to seek counsel as to your rights about various people with 'pasts' being around your children or with them when your XW is not present. Remember, some one's past does not necessarily mean that's who they are today.

Luckily, XW's DH#3 didn't stay in the picture too long. Long enough though, for XW to call me up to get this DH out of her home (XW moved him in after he was released from jail) so she and our children could go home. This happened on 4 or 5 occasions, the last being right after I told her, "You keep calling me to rescue you, but clearly you don't want to be rescued. Stop calling me." The next day, she called the sheriff's office for the second time on DH#3 after he had been holding her and my son captive in her home.

After this episode, DH#3 went to court, then jail (he was already on probation), and XW finally filed a restraining order against him because the same deputy that was on the first call for DH#3 was on the second call and he made it clear he was disgusted with her because she was still involved with this troublemaker and that our children were in peril. Because of the two calls to the sheriff's department for domestic violence while the children were home, reports were filed to CPS for the protection of our children. CPS opened a file. NOT a good thing when the file has your name on it. Shortly after that, XW said she was afraid to live at home with the children and moved in with me for two months.

Here's the real stupid part. XW asked me to move back to her home with her and the children (separate BR, of course) so that they would be home and feel safe. I had a sneaking suspicion that what ended up happening was going to happen, but I did it any anyway because I was hopeful it would be positive for reconciling my M and I wanted to be under the same roof as my children EVERY day again. After being there 2 months, XW started acting horribly towards me. She told me she wanted me to move out. Shortly thereafter, she relented and apologized. She behaved a little better for about a month and then the CPS active file was closed and her behavior started in worse than ever, with her telling me I needed to move out again. As my friend told me, "As soon as you doesn't have a way to use you, she's shut you out again. No warning." Sadly, he was right.

I stayed on for 2 months while finding a different place for myself (mind you, I gave up my place at HER request) and her behavior deteriorated so badly that my children had to witness their mother yelling and swearing at their father. I kept my cool, stayed strong and did NOT react. Horrible for my children to witness that treatment of their father, though.

That whole long-winded explanation was simply an illustration of what happened to me when a person who had 'issues' already when XW started dating him and it turned out that his past 'issues' proved to be present issues. Knowing ahead of time WHO DH#3 really was didn't change anything in this situation, and luckily it resolved itself because DH#3 is a tiger who hasn't been able to change his stripes.

It's also my example of reading too much into MY wants of reconciling and my ignoring her behavior, plus seeing only what I WANT to see instead of reality. This is certainly an example of needing to disengage from her to avoid emotional harm. I care for her, but have done so at my expense. I'm working to resolve my co-dependence issues with her. Knowing a problem exists is half the problem. It can be dealt with if it's known.

2. Don't sit in judgment of OM's morals. Simply watch and be discerning. Listen to your children. Watch for behavior changes. It's most likely not your call to make about OM being around your children. Your XW deems him fit to be around your children. You'll most likely need a reason that you deem him unfit. Go over your paperwork. Consult a lawyer. Call the family courts with your concerns and see if someone at the 'public help' desk can direct you to help or advise you on you question.

3. XW left you for OM, right? No pattern of being unstable staying with OM only so far. Sucks for your mental state but, she could be like my XW, having just ended her fourth 'serious' relationship. Not fun to watch, but I have taken to watching from the sidelines. As a matter of fact, her relationship with DH#4 just ended. Prior to it ending, she asked me some questions about him.

I told her, "Look, you haven't asked me what I've thought of him (I know him) and I haven't offered you any unsolicited thoughts. Let's just keep it that way. (did NOT want to make an 'US' of them against me) I know you and I know him. I am completely confident that you will figure out exactly WHO he is and what he is like. You have been dating him for two months and based on your track record, this relationship will run its course in less than two months."

XW: Why do you say that?

Me: Track record. What I've learned of you. Watching you.

XW: That's horrible:

Me: Yeah, but true. You'll see.

End of conversation. Relationship ended within ten days. =) I don't want her (or him, for that matter) to hurt. It's just that I have had the most uncanny ability to see and predict her behavior and her relationships with near perfect accuracy. Too bad reconciling my R with her to be the one I still long for hasn't worked with this type of accuracy for a winning game plan.

The worst part of her parade of DHs is that my children keep watching her parade from the curb, and I am certain it is confusing to them. I have told XW that she is their role model for a mom, for a woman, for a girlfriend, and for being a woman in a relationship. I tell her, they are watching you. Are you happy with the role model you are showing them in word and in deed? She doesn't answer, but I know she takes what I say to heart. Sadly, in many respects I am a father figure to her and a moral compass.

4. Yes, rebuilding your family will not be an easy task. First and foremost, you need to forgive her. You need to release that huge load of upset that your lug everything and lighten your load. Your upset and it oozes out of your pores in every interaction with XW. She sees it in your eyes, in your tone, in your volume, in your interactions with your children and others, in everything....

Forgiving does NOT mean forgetting. It simply means that you give yourself permission to stop carrying around your anger, upset, disappointment, fear, judgment, anxiety, mind reading (which is never positive), self-centeredness, self-absorption, self-pity, selfishness, feelings of entitlement and judgment. You will always remember this relationship, this time, and not just because of your children. You will remember because you WILL learn from all of this and come out the other side a better, stronger, smarter man.

The last principle of forgiveness is that you release YOUR right to bring up all of your D to her. You may certainly talk about it with her, but you lay down this divorce club and work to never beat her up with it again, despite the hurt that you still fee.