Oh also wanted to add that I tried something this morning that didn't go over so well. I pushed the envelope a little, but I don't think it was too big of a deal. He was laying in bed, and I was about to leave. I said I'd kiss him on the head and he said something slightly negative, but I don't remember what. So I kissed him on the elbow. He didn't seem too impressed, so I will now limit physical advances to things like poking at him when joking around that seem to go over OK.
Anyway he got up before I left, and we joked around some more, and I said goodbye without acting emotional or kissing him or even standing close to him, so I think it was patched over. It is just so strange not to even be hugging each other. Physical affection has consisted of him rubbing my nose, his feet against me, pulling at my hair (like a teenager might do), laying somewhat close to me in bed, and 2 times ML where he grabs at me after we've been sleeping. On the couch we sit pretty close to each other, and he even leans toward me, but there is no touching beyond me sort of poking at him if we're joking around. I know I need to take this slow. It just seems like he is somewhat afraid of me still.
I also just noticed that I missed 2 calls from him yesterday morning, so the good thing is that he is nearly constantly reaching out to me, even though we're still in the same house. Not trying to analyze everything, but I think this is a sign that he is at the least feeling more comfortable around me...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
I havent got time to post.. but seriusly girl, you are in an abusive R with this man and you cant see it. MLC, depression, separated, whatever, aside from all that, he has some MAJOR issues. Cant you see it? It makes me feel uncomfortbable reading it. You keep saying, phew, think I got through that day.. this sitch, that moment, thinkit was papered over.. its like, your splashing a bit of water on a little fire in one corner, whilst failing to notice that the whole house is ablaze.
I urge you to set up some IC ASAP.. to talk it through with them and see how you can set better boundaries to your H in all of this and why you are ignoring that little voice inside that knows that they way he speaks to you is wrong.
Noone shows affection by grabbing someones nose, pulling their hair, poking at them or cruelly teasing them about things they once did. He's seriously got some intimacy issues, or rage, or something and I dont think he is "afraid of you", I think this is all in him and he sounds in a very wierd place. Was he always like this, in the way he expressed affection at least???
I also dont want to be a negative nelly.. but everytime I read about his behaviour, I have this nagging feeling that there is an ow lurking somewhere. It doesnt all add up otherwise (his refusal to work on the R). Also, I have been posting all year and for most of that time, I was the ONLY person in my group of posters that didnt have an OW.. and it did seem odd, and turns out, tehre was one lurking, but nothing had happened yet.
I'm just saying, try not to rule it out, or be naive and maybe do more snooping to find out! I wish I had done (and would have if he had still been living with me). I dont believbe in that dont snoop stuff.. that, in the books, applies to once you know about an A, and its to stop you focusing on it and getting dragged down, put off by the reality.. but, I think it pays to be well informed to begin with.
And now I have waffled on, but seriously, you need to wake up and see how abusive your H is.
Oh and when you said "Not trying to analyze everything, but I think this is a sign that he is at the least feeling more comfortable around me...", I have to disagree. He sounds in a very wierd place, emotionally, expeically as he was so rude to you.
I am sure others will jump in here. I think you need to work on giving him some space?
Al x
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
I really do appreciate your concern, and I know that you are looking out for my best interests, so thank you for being a good friend. I really don't agree though about being in an abusive R, even though I do agree that H still has issues to deal with like most of the WAS on this board. I use this board as a place to vent my frustrations about things going on, and I probably give more details than almost anyone else, every last painstaking detail...I think too that it's hard to convey things appropriately without sharing the entire background. When I say things like pulling my hair, I mean a little tug, and yes we have always been like that with each other. He wasn't cruelly teasing me last night about things I once did but I didn’t explain this fully. He was remembering how excited I got when we stayed in a hotel one night while he was on a business trip, and his company allowed me to join the business dinner at a top restaurant. Before they invited me, I was sad that I was going to have to stay in and order room service, and he was remembering how excited I got when he called me and I got dressed up and ran out to meet them all. This is what we were laughing about, and I thought it was sweet that he had been thinking on something that had made me so happy but was funny at the same time.
In terms of the nose thing, he grabs my nose because he has always said it is cute like a button, and that he loves my nose. That is why I really like this way of showing affection. I am the one who pokes at him, and by this I mean sort of friendly jabs because we're not in the place yet where we can sit with our arms around each other, but I want to have some degree of physical contact.
I agree that snooping is a good thing in some situations depending on the person, but I am 99.9% sure there is no OW, and to be honest even if there were, this would not change things for me at the moment. Yes my H has issues, and he says rude things from time to time, but he has always been loyal and honest. There is a lot of background to this situation in terms of my own contribution to the problems, and why he feels so hurt around me.
I hope I'm not coming off as defensive here, but I really do think that this is a case of me not explaining things right, or giving too much detail about what H is doing vs. what I have done.
In terms of giving H space, I do this now. I don't make plans with him, I don't follow him around, and he's gone at school 2 nights per week until 11 PM. My hope is that we can get to a place where he is honest about the space he needs, but even with us being in the same house this last week, we have spent very little time together.
I think I do need to be more careful about the way that I explain things, and not go into so many details. Like I said, I do appreciate the fact that you are worried about me, but please know that I don’t have low self-esteem and really wouldn’t choose to stay in a situation that I thought was abusive in any way.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Sorry pushing the envelope did not go as expected, the positive is that it didn't go over badly either.
Listen I personally think Ali is looking at more than there actually is in your situation. I too was concerned when I heard the pet names but since you say that these are pet names that you guys have always had then that is as far as we can take it because no one knows your situation better than yourself.
The situation of hair tugging and nose wiggling, I personally see nothing wrong with this as I know I play around with my own H like this also!!! Please do not listen to her about the OW, there has been not indication of an OW and from what you have been saying you are accountable for H's whereabouts a large majority of the time, there are no secret phone calls or such to put the idea in your head so there is no reason to add assumptions.
I'm sorry Ali as I know from your posts here that you were blindsighted by an A but that does not have to be the case in everyones situation. ITH does not have to have us whispering negatives in her ear when there are no signs or reasons now.
ITH - you have been really strong lately and I think you are going a good job, the only thing I really think you need to focus on more is YOU and to stop analyzing everything!!!
Thanks for your post. Yeah in terms of pushing the envelope, I thought it was worth a try, but I think I have to let him take the lead 100% on everything relationship-wise at this point. He really does seem skittish and I need to remember that even though things are better now than they have been in awhile, it has been a very short period of time still, and in fact us being in the same house still is already pushing the envelope. I need to continue to focus on my own 180s of not bickering, not bossing him around, and not trying to control how he spends his time.
You are right that I need to quit analyzing stuff so much. I think this is what also makes my sitch sound worse than it is, the way I feel relieved each time an interaction goes well. It's because I'm so scared of it not going well.
In terms of the pet names, I'm happy that we are using any these days, and each one used is like a baby step for me. We're not at the point where he'd be calling me princess or anything like that, so I'm happy with something else showing affection, something that I can use too without coming on too strong. If we can get to where I hope we both want to be with each other, I am sure that the nicer nicknames will become more prevalent...
Anyway thanks for checking in on me Sep!
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
He asked me what I did after I got home from work, and I told him I worked out, got online etc., and he said that it was a really boring conversation. He was joking around I think, but every once inawhile he just throws in these negative things that seem to come from nowhere. They are nowhere near as bad as the things he'd been saying before, and I laugh them off, but I feel like maybe he is still seeing if I will react in certain ways.
One thing that struck me here is maybe you could turn these kinds of things into a bit of a joke. I am thinking of two examples one somewhere that MWD talks about an argument with her husband and she uses humour to turn it around (it is something about a golf club newsletter and she is moaning about how they put womens names in brackets and her h doesn't see what the problem is and she apologises by signing her name on a post it note (Michelle) ) and also of something in the 'B!tch' book about a guy moaning about what she is wearing and she answers 'listen here Versace'. Could you start standing up for yourself a little in these ways by being witty? It may diffuse situations that he is trying to create to reinforce his negative views and also means you are setting subtle boundaries in terms of respect and the fact you have a life without him. All attractive traits to a man.
Sorry that is a bit long winded... hope you get what I mean.
Hey ITH, Well, if you are sure that theres no ow and you HAVE snooped, then that in itself is a positive. I didnt suggesst that there could be one becuase I had one in mine.. its becuase his behaviour is confusing, he's doing without physical intimacy (why?) he's not really willing to work on the R and also, from things you said about him posting messages online (not sure what that was, but you mentioned a 25 year old?) so I think it pays to not be naive. There were no clues with my ex either, but then, I didnt have access to his email. Hopefully, thats not the case with you, fingers crossed, as I think noone stands a chance until an ow is out of the picture.
The thing about the abusive/passive agressive stuff.. you did say that he asked you about your day and then when you answered he said you were being boring.. but I get from that some anger in him? From what you have said, you havent been 100% honest about some of your stuff that may give him reason to be hurt and maybe therefore angry at you, or resentful, so maybe thats what I am picking up on.
At least yuo are still in the house! Who would have thought that a few weeks ago !? How are things this evening?
Al x
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
We only all have our own experiences to judge by- and while I think that the majority do have some sort of OW type relationship (or fantasy?) on the side- it doesn't mean they all do.
I do think your H struggles with his own emotions (based on what you relate). But he is building in his comfort level over the past few weeks of your messages. I guess it would be soo helpful if there was a separate board for the spouses to journal so we could compare notes.
But you are still in the house- and he hasn't flipped out and forced you out- and I do think that he has ML 2 times is something. It is a connection that the two of you share.
I like the idea of turning his negative remarks around with a smart ass reply. I wonder if your H may enjoy that too based on your descriptions of him.
Me-36 H-30 T-7yr, M-3yr DivorceBusting Saved my marriage! sep 6-08 to 12-08. Together again, things are good!
Julia-I really appreciate the suggestion about responding to H with a witty remark. I think I will try that the next time that this kind of thing happens. I definitely haven't been acting hurt, but I think I could take this up a notch...I realize that I need to ensure that I remain strong even if "deferring" to H in many areas.
Ali-thanks for checking on my evening! Actually, it's the best that we've had yet. This will sound silly perhaps, but for the last 2.5 hours or so we were sitting together looking at watches on his computer. Watches are a huge passion of his, and we looked at a bunch of different sites and talked about which ones we could afford, which I liked, which he liked etc. During this time he was IMing with some of his family, and he was completely transparent with their messages to him, and his messages to them, and in one message said I was sitting with him, and called me by one of our sweetest nicknames in this IM. It's a character from a Mexican soap opera so it may not translate well, but I was SO touched.
Opt--yes H definitely is still dealing with his own emotions. He may very well have an OW fantasy, and if so, I can't really know. I do know that he is now acting more as though he is in love with me when I am here. He acted really happy to see me when I came home, and followed me upstairs chatting the whole time.
All--I am entirely certain that something has shifted. Tonight when when we were sitting together there was very vague talk about future things like living in certain places, or making certain purchases together. I even talked about some plans I had tomorrow, and he sort of tried to invite himself. It's not something tangible and easy to describe, but I am quite certain now that things have changed for the better. I am feeling really comfortable now, and I think that things are on the upward trend.
Thank you for checking on me and making sure that I think about things. I don't know where I would be without these boards...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
