My family of origin and particularly my Mom. My mom treated my wife poorly and I didn't jump to her aid and defense immediatly. Other members of my family were around/involved in some of it. To us what happened was not good but wasn't a huge horrible thing either. My wife felt it was and was outraged everyone else didn't think so also. She became increasingly angry that everyone wasn't on her side and see things the way she did. I didn't have enough compassion. I could make a mile long list of things I didn't do to my wifes satifaction about the situation/relationships of my mom and me, my kids, etc.. etc... We have all been branded disfunctional at best and many psycological terms which my wife spent months researching and applying to me, my mom, my brothers, and their spouses. After about 6 months I saw the errors of my ways and made significant changes. She achnowledged I did but her anger was so deep now that it made no difference. I have been called just about everything in the book and crucified repeatedly on some of the web sites she frequents. One has eveyone on it hating my guts and pleading with her to leave me.
I have found out my wife is one of those people who carries a grudge for a very long time - maybe for life. Forgiveness on much of anything from her is hard if not impossible to get. I have continiued down the changed relationship path with my family hoping eventually I would be given a chance. 6 months after I made this change my wife gave me an ultimatum to choose her or my family. I was thrown by this as I thought I had already made that decision but evidently I had not in her eyes. I reaffirmed that I choose and chose her asking what else she wanted me to do.
Where we are now - almost 3 years later. My mom is never allowed in our home again. She is not allowed to call the house. She is not allowed to send any presents except for Christmas and birthdays to anyone including me and my kids/grandchildren. Communications between my family and my kids is restricted to a phone call every couple months. My mom is not allowed to be alone with my kids without me AND my wife (This is one of the trust ones - she does not trust me to protect (?) / care for my kids from my mother) My wife will never set foot in my mom's home. She says I can but bet others can guess what that would mean - hell to pay. My kids can't go to her house. (Another of our issues - when did she suddenly get assigned to make this decision about my kids ? ) I have lost my best friend - my youngest brother. We used to be tight/close. He feels both mom and my wife need to grow up and act like adults instead of teenage girls. He feels I have chosen a woman over my family like my father did - which he is more or less correct on. He no longer respects me like before and feels I have treated our mother excessively poorly. The rest of my family feels the same but not as strongly as my youngest brother. I used to talk to my family about once a week. Now it is about once every couple months. We have almost no interaction with my family.
I feel I've sacrificed. My wife feels I've done little and holds it against me that I haven't done more and that I haven't happily enjoyed becoming extranged from my FOO.
Other big issue. I have a troubled son. He accused my wife of hurting him to authorities. He did this to me twice. We have been investigated by child protective services three times and cleared. My wife and son pretty much hate each other and avoid each other. My wife constantly tells me how messed up my kid is and how I am failing and/or a failure as a parent. My son (11) is now enrolled in a military school. I have recently drawn the line about my son. He may be messed up emotionally/mentally but he's my son and I won't abandon him. I think I've made it clear if she gives me another ultimatum between my son or her, I will not choose her.
Because of my sons issues, any issues involving her kids are of no importance as far as discipline or behavior modification. It's come to the point that I can't and do my best to not say anything about her kids. Any time I say something she says I am deflecting my problems onto her and her kids. One is about to loose his drivers licence he's skipped school so many times already this year. Funny aside - same kid didn't come home 2 nights ago. When she noticed she called his cell. He said he did come home late and got up early (7 - and this kid never gets up before noon unless he has to) and left. LOL. Of course leaving without telling anyone evidently is fine.... Her older kids have learned they can lie to her and get away with it a good percentage of the time. They know even when caught it won't mean but maybe a day or two of not going out and they then have their friends come to our house. I will say her kids are pretty good kids generally. We/she don't have the problems many parents do with teens. All the kids get good grades. I'm not mad about her kids and it isn't really an issue anymore between us as I've backed of a lot and don't get involved. I don't want it to be an issue.
So that's some of it.
Ava - thank you for your input. To answer your question on Cinco's thread --- I am not really sure why. Could be a couple different reasons. One being we have MC tonight and maybe she thought if she did I wouldn't say anything about it being 6 weeks. I mentioned to the C a couple months ago that she had pretty much cut me off. Maybe I am getting the message to her slowly - that this matters to me. She "says" she likes and wants to have sex with me - but she's done an effective job avoiding and making me feel crappy/rejected. I did tell her about 2 months ago that I won't stay in a sexless marriage. Maybe she was horny - she did seem like she was some.
Another comment about the trust between us - or mis-trust. My wife thinks I want to change the situation with me and my family. In fact she is sure of it and stated so and this is one of the things she doesn't trust me about. She says eventually I am going to want to "go back" to the way things were before. I don't understand the statement. Things will never be like they were. What's done is done. I DO want to stay with her. I KNOW she will leave as she has threatened a bunch of times if I go back on my word. Three years later and I haven't and I have no thoughts or plans or intention of. Yet still - the sword is carefully and clearly strung in full view above my head.
How many years will it take ? Can it ever be removed ? That is my concern.
On the one hand, I can support standing up to one's parents in favor of one's wife: I've had to draw that line myself -- forcefully on occasion -- with my own parents. On the other hand, unless there are *real* issues of abuse and misconduct, I could not support cutting yourself (and your kids) off completely from your FOO at your wife's behest/insistence. Based upon your description, you HAVE sacrificed, and probably too much, all for the sake of your wife's pride.
Remember what I said in my original post to you, about having to be as strong or stronger than a strong woman, in order to keep her respect and keep her sexually attracted to you?
What would happen if you put your foot down and said: "Enough is enough. I've apolozied repeatedly for what happened 3 years ago. I've set up clear boundaries regarding my mother and her interactions with us. But this is my family, and I need to have a decent relationship with them, whether you like that or not."
Take my opinion with a large grain of salt, SH, but I think that you need to start standing up to her, and stop letting her dictate all the terms of your relationship....or else. Your "or else" sounds like you either stay together miserable and whipped by her, or separate. You need to start making your own "or else" here --> one in which you can achieve your own goals and happiness and hold your head up high as a man.
I hope you have a good counselor, one whom you both trust, can both listen to, and can iron these things out with.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
"What would happen if you put your foot down and said: "Enough is enough. I've apolozied repeatedly for what happened 3 years ago. I've set up clear boundaries regarding my mother and her interactions with us. But this is my family, and I need to have a decent relationship with them, whether you like that or not."
Have to grin and thanks !! -- I have done exactly that - exactly - several times. The kicker is the last sentance. "But this is my family..." The answer to that was/is NO - THIS is your family - me and the kids. I can't argue too much about that so have let that last part go. Everything before that I have expressed and said again and again - a few times at increased volume.
It is one of the top 2 reasons we are in C. I agree on your "or else" input. I have had enough being pushed around and beaten down. I'm not that type and don't take it well. Subserviant mushroom Husband isn't me. And I deserve and insist to have some say in this/our relationship. My frustration level on this reached such a point I found a C and made the appointments and basically said if we don't go as a couple together, IMO we are finished. I even put out to her a plan call it quits - to finish the school year for her kids (two are seniors) and let the house go. She agreed to go right away - no arm twisting. We've had about 8 sessions and the C seems pretty good and I think we are making some progress. Wife said last session she feels we are.
I agree with B~ you need to put your foot down. ( your last post explains the dynamic so much better. ) I cant tell you how to do it... I just am learning recently to do this and I have been married for 12 years... if you dont stop it you will surely live like this the rest of your life. She has no reason to change she likes things the way they are. Good luck to you my friend, Yours is a tough one but not impossible... Right now she has your balls in her hands.... Sorry to be so blunt~ BTDT~ I used to let my Husband dictate everything and nothing ever seemed good enough. It is no way to live. ( I was secretly MISERABLE~) Read , arm yourself with knowledge and work with your counselor. Work on your worth and being strong and living your truth. Or she will hold those things in her hands forever.... The goal? To walk beside one another in every way.... and right now she is dragging you and that also is a part of your resentment. God bless you. ~Ava
Whelp - C tonight went poorly. Amazing how fast hope can be dashed so quickly and brutaly.
We discussed my son. She is angry - hugely angry. C suggested a modification on how we relate to each other about kids. Idea being we only talk to each other - respectfully - about each others kids. No direct to the kids - thru the parent. No go. Wife says that is a change to the "marriage agreement" and I've changed it without informing her. ??? This was a C idea tonight. Wife says we agreed we could correct kid mistakes/issues as done. She then goes into how she has been hurt by my son and myself by actions/inaction - and goes into detail how so. I then recieved a rather detailed explanation of how much her and her kids lives suck being with me/us - and how it was better before me - even with her Ex.
Has she always been very controlling? Sorry you are going thru this. Take care of you and try and find solutions, The kids cant be happy living like this either. All my best , Ava
We - I mean I - will see. I've expressed much disapointment lately. Seems odd but she seems to be "hearing" that. I've gotten close to the point of "I don't care". If we make it - great - that's what I want. If we don't - that's OK also.
But... she seems to suddenly be responding. Sex twice yesterday. It's been a couple years since that's happened. She said tonight "I'm going to try to win you back". WOW. And offered sex again. Wow - maybe she does want to stay with me. I want to think so. Hope this lasts.
Stillhope!!! - Dude... sex twice in one day? Now I'm the jealous one. That for me is like a once a decade occurrence.
Her saying "I'm going to try to win you back" is such a good sign. This may very well be a turning point.
Cinco
Yeah. Well. Not to be a buzzkill, but it might also mean, "I can sense that I'm losing control of you, and putting out is a surefire way of getting my power back."
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Now I'm the jealous one. That for me is like a once a decade occurrence.