I'm not a morning person either...I can relate with your W. And, like her, I usually make up for it later with my own sort of apology. I'm getting better with saying, "I'm sorry," though.
Maybe I can put my W in touch with you WDID. She probably missed that day at school when they were teaching "I'm sorry". No wait, she learned from her mom that to say I'm sorry is to show weakness........
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
It's a power thing, yep. If she ever gets to the point you want her to, where there is remorse, etc. She will be showing weakness all over the place. Once the dam opens, it all flows out. But, if she is not ashamed, if she is not repenting, if she hasn't seen what she has done in that way.....she won't show it until she does.
I think you're right WDID. My W has always been that way. I can remember so many times where just about once every 6 months or so that she'd show a moment of weakness and tell me how she REALLY feels.
She would say "I know you don't think I love you, but I do". So I just keep waiting for that moment when she's in a vulnerable place and this all just flows out. Waiting, waiting, waiting.....if we could just get to that place I think we could make some REAL progress.
And I do think she's ashamed. But she's not ready to really let herself admit that yet. Like I posted earlier from the article I read in USA Today....the human mind does funny things when faced with dealing with the pain/harm you've caused people. It's easier to NOT deal with it and possibly have to admit to yourself that YOU F'd up (ok, I paraphrased there).
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
I think she is ashamed, too. It's so good you are giving her time before "talking about it". SOmeone told me an analogy once that fits here.....something about how you wouldn't operate on a sick person, you'd wait until they felt better. It's kinda like how you need to wait until your wife and your relationship heals first before you go into more of the pain of what happened.
I do hope you don't ask for too many details about the affair. When you get to that point, ask and say what you need to, but try to just look to the future and put the past behind you.
WDID, I have so many questions about the affair, but probably not what you'd think. Yes, I do have a few questions about the sex part of the affair, not what they did because I know what W does when she's interested in someone, but just a few things (like did they have unprotected sex and did he want her to do anything twisted because in talking with his W she told me he wanted her to get other people involved, etc). But mainly I need to know stuff about where, how etc because I NEED that to fill in the holes that were my life for a year.
I do think we need to discuss how she let herself get into the place that allowed this to happen even though she was warned about OM being a player just a few days after she started working in the same building as him. I need her to tell me what my contribution was to her state of mind that let it happen. Because I know if we can't get to the bottom of these things, then I'll never feel comfortable that it won't happen again.
I'm not going to beat her up and hold this over her head forever. I feel like I've mostly forgiven her although I don't know if I will ever fully forgive her if she doesn't come to grips with how she let herself go there, KWIM?
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
As I posted to you last week, I think you need to be very careful to communicate ANY of this now. She will likely feel overwhelmed, and hopeless. If you eventually need to know all of this, or even most of it, then let that happen in due course. But right now, all she needs to hear from you is "I need you to come back fully to our marriage, and work on it with me, and be transparent with me so that I can learn to trust you again."
If you spell out A-Z, or even A-L, she's gonna freak out. Just let her know the few non-negotiable A-B-Cs, and let the rest evolve naturally.
Because I know if we can't get to the bottom of these things, then I'll never feel comfortable that it won't happen again.
I'm not going to beat her up and hold this over her head forever. I feel like I've mostly forgiven her although I don't know if I will ever fully forgive her if she doesn't come to grips with how she let herself go there, KWIM?
Well that's just smart, not unforgiving. Finding out WHY it happened is more important than WHAT happened. So it doesn't happen again. You don't sound vindictive to me.
A thought on the player thing...if the guy is a player then he probably does have some "irresistable" qualities about him that attract women. We'd all like to think we're above that sort of thing, but....
And maybe in some weird way, it was like "this ladies man picked ME." I don't know. I'm totally guessing. Probably he's the master at manipulating hurting women. Predators can smell that a mile away. Why is his W still with him BTW??
Before you ask any questions, ask yourself first, "How will knowing this help our future together?" Think about hearing her say the worst case scenario and whether that would help you or not.....I understand the need to fill the holes, but think about whether you may want to consider filling them with new thoughts and feelings rather than the old crap that may have happened. I would never want to answer specific questions with my H. I will if he wants to know, and we are stronger now and could maybe deal with it.....but, it would not help us. All it would do is have him look at me differently forever. I can't change what I did, I have to live with it in my own head forever. I can't bear the thought of seeing my H look at me the same way I look at myself right now. And, don't say you wouldn't look at her differently. You would. You already do with what you DO know.
I do think talking about how she let herself get to this place is good. Get ready to hear how you may have played a role in that. You will have to keep your anger in check because it will sound like she is blaming you. She isn't, she is just telling you how she got to that point as messed up as it was.
As I posted to you last week, I think you need to be very careful to communicate ANY of this now. She will likely feel overwhelmed, and hopeless. If you eventually need to know all of this, or even most of it, then let that happen in due course. But right now, all she needs to hear from you is "I need you to come back fully to our marriage, and work on it with me, and be transparent with me so that I can learn to trust you again."
If you spell out A-Z, or even A-L, she's gonna freak out. Just let her know the few non-negotiable A-B-Cs, and let the rest evolve naturally.
Puppy
Good points...I think the word "transparent" is tricky however. I know what you're saying. But she has to feel very very very safe to feel like she can be transparent. No one is really transparent, we all protect some part of ourselves. I guess that word kind of connotes "exposed" to me. But that's just me.
