I think I'm done......saddened, but strong.....

[Silent Chrleader]

Well I've been lurking and DB'ing on my own and hoping for several months now. My sitch is nothing special. Typical MLC as far as I can see. But, I think I may be done now. My H is beyond hope and without honor or integrity. I don't know where the good man I thought I had married went, and I will always miss him and love him for the rest of my life. But, the man in his skin now is not someone I can even respect.

The reason for this change is that he Wednsday, H called and accused our S17 of breaking into his apartment drinking some of his booze and smoking cigars and leaving the door unlocked when he left. H has given S17 a key and said he was welcome there anytime. H has also in the past several months in his fog be S17's "best buddy" and given him booze and smokes, etc. So it would be no wonder that S17 might "help himself". But S17 says he didn't do it, and seems very sincere. H called S17 a liar and said some really nasty things and S17 hung up on him. When H called back, I answered the phone and tried to get him to calm down and H told me I was only believing S17 because I was "trying to win his love". S17 has been very difficult with me for these past months and seemed to "take his Dad's side" although we tried to not put him in the middle in any way.

Well, S17 blew a gasket with H over telling me that, and grabbed the phone from me and proceeded to cuss H out. After which, S17 and I had a long talk where a LOT of stuff that S17 has been holding inside bubbled over the surface. Specifically that H had been in PA with his Secretary and H told S17 and expected him to keep the secret! H also has been telling S17 about going out trying to pick up girls at bars (i.e. getting the wild adolescence he never got). He never planned to keep the promise he had made me to "get back together" and "try again" after the seperation. He does not plan to sell the dream house we just finished this summer (which was financed by loans I took on my retirment) He had agreed that if we divorce, we would sell everything and split it all up and have a "clean break". The idea of him in that house that we designed together and went through 3 years of planning and building makes me sick!

S17 told me the reason he has been so angry at me was that he tried to "hint" at what H was doing while still not "breaking man law", but I couldn't see it and he was frustrated with me. And the more H ran amok, the more S17 lost respect and understanding for him and now he just doesn't want any contact with H. This is very sad to see because he idolized his Dad.

I can't believe my H put our son in that position and hurt him so deeply. I went to H's appartnment, and I was there about an hour. I was so proud of myself. I told him to look me in the eye and see that there were absolutely no tears. And I told him I wanted him to know that he hadn't broken me! I told him what I still felt an believed about the worthiness of "standing" and applying oneself to a lifelong relationship. I told him that I was glad he left because I had grown so much and I was a better person today for it. I also told him (not for the first time) that I saw the contribution I had in the breakdown of our marriage and I was sincerely sorry for it. But, I also told him that without integrity and honor, he is not the good man I believed him to be. That he had sat with our son drinking beer and smoking cigars and in a drunk stupor layed this burden of knowledge on our son and allowed him to carry that secret for months. And this was how he chose to teach our son to be a man!! This was the example he set! And our S17 was so grateful for the "quality" time he was getting from his Dad and idolized him! It makes me so angry I could spit!! I told him that if, when he saw our son next, he did not hug him and tell him how proud he was of him for telling the truth and how wrong he was to put him in that position, then he was truly without hope! And lastly, I told him that I never in my wildest dreams ever thought that I would be so very ashamed OF MYSELF for choosing a man such as him to be the example I wanted for my kids to follow. (I know this was definitely NOT DB, but right now I really don't care) At that point I gave him my key to his apartment and walked out. For the whole conversation, I never cried, or yelled, or anything like that. I was strong and direct and told the absolute unvarnished truth! And I'm proud of me!

Yesterday, S17 and I had sessions with Our IC was actually angry at H too for his deception even when in session, and we both really thanked and praised S17 for having the courage to tell the truth....This morning H called me asked me to tell S17 to call him because he want to apologize and S17 won't answer the call. I told him I would speak with S17, but I would not make him do anything. And then I ask H to do one other thing for me. I told him to ask his Secretary for a health certificate. He had unproteced sex with her and then had sex with me (this makes me sick to think about! I have never been with anyone else, and neither had he!!). I reminded him that his secretary had cheated on every relationship she was ever in, and therefore couldn't be "trusted". So, I asked to please not embarass me or her by forcing me to go and ask her for it myself. He said he would take care of it.

Next Thursday we have an MC appointment (our first in months). H says he still plans to go. I know he thinks I want to go because I am still not letting go. That is not the case. I simply don't want to leave my marriage without complete understanding of what went wrong and why so I can learn from this not take it forward with me. And for my self respect, I want to do the best I can to demand that he respect me and the life we built together by being honest with both me and himself!! In the presence of our counselor, I want to "hold his feet to the fire" and not allow him to do any more of the verbal tap dancing he has done so much of. He will be held accountable! I know I can't make him do anything, but he will have to accept the responsibility of make the decision quitting and walking away without doing justice for our children!!

So, I know I fell of the DB wagon in a big way, but in large part I feel I am on the right path. I feel stronger and calmer. I have a better relationship with my kids than I ever did! And I have an appointment on Monday with a lawyer too.

Don't know quite what I am looking for by posting this. Maybe just some understanding from others that feel the same way about marriage as I still do! Everyone I know, even my H's mother, says I need to forget all about him and move along! (And she is a staunch Catholic!!) But it still breaks my heart to see him kicking to the curb everyone that should really matter in his life, and even his mother doesn't think he will ever change and see it.

My heart is broken.

[job]

S,
I'm very sorry you are here, but you amongst some of the most wonderful and compassionate people on this earth. So, grab a chair and other posters will come along shortly.

The first thing I would like to say, is this...you are not alone, many of us have been right where you are today, especially the situation w/your son. Your son and his father are now going to need to work this issue out between them. Do not step in again. You cannot make the peace between them. Your h is the fool that created this mess, therefore, he's going to have to earn the respect back of your son. You cannot do this for him. It's going to break your heart to observe the anger dance between them, but it must take place and resolve itself on it's own time, if ever.

Second, you now have to find a way to live w/o your h in the picture. There's nothing that says he won't return, but you've got to live as if he's not going to return. You can do this. You sound like a very tough and independent lady.

No more talks w/him about the relationship. Protect your assets. If he wants the house, I would definitely make sure that he buys you out at the fair market value. This is not the time to go soft and give in to his demands. You must take care of your son and yourself. Get his name off of your bank account, credit cards and any other documents that you have. He just may be crazy and/or irrational enough to spend every last dime he can get his hands on. After all, he's out there acting out in all sorts of ways as if he were 17 himself. Trust me, burning the candle at both ends will catch up w/him in the months to come.

Keep the focus on you, your family and your assets. It's very important. Remember...only you can determine when you are tossing in the towel. I suspect that you aren't really ready to do that right now. Why? Because you wouldn't be here. We all get frustrated, toss the towel down, but then when we are feeling better, we pick it up and continue moving forward.

Mostly importantly, get plenty of rest, eat properly, walk and find something to laugh about each day. Laughter is excellent medicine for when the stressors get to you.

[yellowrose]

S

I bet most of the people on this board could have written most of what you have.

I too have a S that was best pals with my H when he went through this. After a while it did stop becausemy S was so angry at what my H was doing. I don't know how many times my S told my H off. I had to let them handle it themselves. My S distanced himself from his dad.

Take what they say with a grain of salt. Half the time they don't remember what they say anyway! As for as the A. It will dwindle eventually, but it usually takes some time.

I too went to a lawyer. I wanted to know what my options were. She looked at me and said you don't want a D do you? She said that it sounded like my H was going through MLC. She sent me out of her office.

There were many, many times I thought I was done too. Then I would see little changes in my H that told me just to hang on a little longer. I prayed like never before. One good thing that came out of this I became closer to God.

I went to C too. My C is the one that really helped me to cope with all of this. She helped me with boundries and helped me to realise it wasn't my fault.

Be good to yourself. Take care of you and your kids. Work on you and keep working on you. I tell you I learned alot about myself when I went through this and my H loves the new changes in me!!!!

Hang in there.

Y

[Silent Chrleader]

Thank you, Snodderly and YR, for your good advice. To update, my H called tonight and S17 answered the phone and they apparently talked. S17 said H appologized for putting him in that position and when S17 tried to apologize for "telling", H wouldn't let him and just told him the fault was his for putting him in that position and H is going to do "everything in his power to fix this" because he doesn't want to loose S17. S17 said he even seemed to be crying in the end and had to hang up. I am telling myself not to take that as a good sign that he is finally actually feeling some remorse for his actions. It doesn't mean a thing.

I should note that OW no longer works for H. She got another job that doesn't have the long commute last month, at H's insistence. H also contends it was "only the one time" and they "knew right away it was a mistake". Like that makes it better.

I also did one other thing tonight. I drove over to the OW's house. She wasn't home, but I went because I sort of wanted to "face my demon" and thus hopefully take away it's power. I had a short speech planned. I wasn't going to yell, or cuss, or anything like that. I was going to be a lady and basically tell her that though she had hurt me, and her actions showed no honor or integrity, I wasn't broken and the upshot was going to be that I would forgive her in time because I sincerely wanted to. [It should be noted that H and OW and I commuted together to work in the city for 2 years and in that time I had tried to be her friend and had helped her and encouraged her in her troubles with her marriage.] H definitely would not want me to do this, but I sort of feel like it would be a good thing for my self respect. But then she wasn't at home, so I took that as a sign that maybe I wasn't supposed to take that step.

Any advice on that one?

[happynow]

I'm so sorry you are here but you are in the right place.

Take it as a sign that you were not supposed to take that step. It could have made things much worse.

Keep praying!!

(((HUGS)))

[Dawn of Hope]

SC,
I understand that you want to be loving and forgiving, but I don't think that springing yourself on the OW is going to be helpful, no matter how nice you are to her. Personally, I would just leave it alone. That's just my opinion, though, and I'm a bit biased because I haven't even been able to forgive my H yet for the A he is carrying on (with great enthusiasm), much less OW. So take that for what it is worth. Snodderly and YellowRose have been at this quite a while, and their advice is very valuable. Hope you are doing well today!

Peace and blessings,
Dawn

[job]

S,
I wouldn't go over to the OW's, nor would I say anything to her. You are giving her far too much power over your life, thinking and the situation. Besides, if you were to talk to her, there's no guarantee that she wouldn't ring up your h and telling him that you had been there and spoken to her. Let it go. She's not worth the space she's taking up in your head.

I'm glad to see that your h apologized to your son. However, it's going to be a long road for the two of them and they will need to figure out just how to work on their reconnection and communication w/one another. This will be your h's responsibility, not yours. So, step back and allow both men to figure it out.

I do hope that you'll find something pleasant to do this weekend. Keep the focus on you and your family. Your h has got a lot of work to do on himself. Until he can fully focus on himself, he'll continue run amuck. He's going to do a lot of crazy things, trying on different "masks" until he finds the proper fit and can learn to look within for that happiness he is so desperately seeking. Let him be...no more talks about relationship, marriage or divorce. As the old saying goes, let the pot simmer.

Take care.

[Silent Chrleader]

Thank you again, Snodderly, and DoH, for your kind advice. I did go over to the OW's house today, but again she wasn't there. So, I guess the fates really are trying to tell me somthing so I should listen. It's just wierd in my case because this is a woman we've known for 7 years! My H hired her when he worked at his previous employer when she was just 20 (her first "real" job). We went to wedding! We've had dinner at her parent's house! When my H hired her on as his assistant at his current employer, I was glad! The three of us commuted together for 2 years! When she had her baby, I convinced H to buy her the $600 camcorder as a shower gift because she's like family!! I just have this strong need to face her and ask her why! I just don't understand!!!

I know this shouldn't matter so much in this day and age, but the fact that my H and I had only "been with" each other was so precious to me! I saw us as sacred. And, I just don't see how I will ever get over this! I know all the answers....GAL, 180, etc......and I am lucky he is going to MC and seems to be finally seeing some repurcussions to his actions.......and I need to be patient and just have my own life. Today, I went to lunch with my best friend. Then got my nails done. Then went to the bookstore and got, among other things, "After the Affair". I've started Zen Buddhist Meditation for my mental health (I am not a religeous person). In fact, everyone tells me how amazing I am that I am doing so well! That I'm so strong! And that he doesn't deserve me, etc......

I know it all!!! And it doesn't help!! I don't know how I'm ever going to get through this! I know I will, because I have to for my kids! But I have no idea how I'm going to accomplish it.

[glamgirl]

SC I wouldn't bother going over to ow's. It will do NO good. It actually could set you back. What would come of it?

Sorry you have found yourself here. Just focus on yourself and your family and let your h come around. Your h will need to get through this journey.

[Dawn of Hope]

SC,
I know what you mean about having been each other's "one and only" and how precious it was. I feel like my H is contaminated now that he has been with someone else. I don't even want to touch him these days (not that there's been any interest from the other side). If it weren't for the number of other people who have managed it, I wouldn't believe it possible to get past that. I'm still not entirely convinced that I can do it, but I would guess that is how most people in our sitch felt when they found themselves faced with this dilemma. You never know until you're in the midst of it, I guess.

I have no doubt that it is difficult with OW having been a friend. But it sounds like the vote here is pretty much unanimous--DO NOT seek to talk to her, at least not for a while. Let your H flap in the breeze too, and focus on yourself and your kids. Good for you for those GAL activities!

Something just occurred to me, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, but I haven't seen it discussed before... You know how a bone that has been broken and then healed properly is stronger at the break than anywhere else? Maybe people and marriages are like that. They have to be "broken" in order to be better and stronger than before. Likewise, bones need stress to strengthen enough to do their job properly, even when not broken (that's why weight-bearing exercise is important). Maybe that analogy applies here too.

Okay, just some thoughts to leave with you before I head off to bed. Take care of yourself!

Peace,
Dawn