WAW has been home for 19 weeks now

[saffie]

GH,

She is hoping she can do just enough to reel you in again. Stick to your guns....I would even be tempted to ask her to go sleep in her own room so she gets to know what it's going to feel like.

I think she feels she can manipulate you.

All she seems to talk about is how SHE feels - never about you - apart from when she gets on to what you do wrong. ENOUGH!!!!!!!

[GH31]

Bloody Hell this is tough,

W gets wind that I am planning to move out and we have the best Sunday ever.

Passionate sex in the morning followed by 2 hours of indoor climbing together, then shopping, coffee together and chatting, then a movie.

Basically a great Sydney day spent together. When I compare where we are now with 5-6 months ago there has been much progress.

But... contact with OM persists and W is having a tremendously difficult time with not seeing him when he visits Sydney in a few weeks. She says she "owes him" and wants to "repay her debt" and not "ruin his holiday".

This ongoing contact bothers me terribly and I have told her as much. I have asked her to cancel the visit and she has agreed (kinda) and said the situation is "ridiculous really...". She also said "If I want to be with you then doing things with OM would be the wrong thing to do" and "the reasons for me leaving him haven't gone away" and "I felt lost without you GH31 when we were apart. We have a special way about us - it's really unique and irreplacable".

I also said "what would it be like if I were having a chat with your father and brother and they ask me "where is W?". Then I would say "well you never guess what...she's out showing her ex-boyfriend/boyfriend around Sydney". She said something to the effect of "well that wouldn't do" or "I didn't think of that...".

For heaven's sake.

Then today I asked her to "take care of business" and she was annoyed at my "nagging" as she was leaving for work. She wanted to cancel lunch and sent me an SMS saying something about me "nagging" her. Anyway, I emailed her the following email:

Hello my dear W,

Thank you for your SMS.

In truth I don't want to even think about this subject, let alone talk about it with you. Neither you nor I have any fun discussing it.

I would simply be grateful if you would do what you said you would do in the first place (weeks ago) and remove the cause ... so that it never has to occupy thought or conversation again.

As for lunch, it will go ahead at 1pm and we can enjoy it and each other. There is a time and place to talk about less palatable subjects and lunch isn't it.

GH31

and she replied with:

Hmmmm, see you then...

I AM SO CONLICTED AND CONFUSED!!! What the heck am I supposed to do with this girl? It's true about sex making a man feel close to his woman and with women it's the other way around.

W and I spend hours and hours in each other's company every week. Obviously it's having an effect and she's very close to me, but when I want to go dark because of this continued vacillation (she still won't say ILY or wear her wedding ring) I am thrown again. We have been sleeping together much more and she has been returning caresses recently but she still has all of her things in the spare room and says "we're not officially back together until I move everything back into this big room"

I have been much more vocal about not being disrespected. If she says or does things that I find objectionable then I let her know - not in a horrid way, but I insist on being treated the way she herself would want to be treated.

What a mixed up little girl. Especially since she had pictures of OM in her iPod together with pictures of just me on my own and our wedding pictures. Good God ... whatever next???

This is just so damn tough.

[saffie]

GH,

I say it again....your W knows exactly how to reel you in and when. She plays you like a fine fiddle. I find your description of her to be that of one very manipulative woman.....and I think you know that.

Deep down I believe you know that you are going to have to follow through on your threat to leave. As things stand at the moment there is no doubt in my mind that she WILL see OM when he visits. It also sounds like she plays OM from your previous posts....and she thrives on being in the center of all this adoration. Wow....two guys fighting over her....what an aphrodisiac.

If I were you I would have somewhere to move in readiness for OM's visit in case she does make contact so that you can make a quick exit. I don't think it will be long before she follows.

You are so close to cracking this one. Deep down she is too scared to lose you, for whatever reason, otherwise she would have ditched you by now. I don't know if it's because you are a better sugar daddy to her, (sorry for being so cynical).

She uses sex to reel you in - to be honest it would be cheaper and less emotionally stressful to visit a hooker or buy a blow up doll - I know it's not the same but I am feeling frustrated by your situation.

She always comes back when you act strong but fair.....keep hold of that. She acts badly when she thinks she has you on the run.

Maybe contacting OM again and telling him a bit more about the way your W is reacting might be enough to stop to him trying to hook up with her when he visits.

GH, so far, when has she NOT followed when you have moved on? Just keep a hold of that thought. She was fed up with you when moved back to Australia because it threw a spanner in her works....but she still followed.

Stick to your guns man........ Me thinks she needs you more than you need her.

[Phoenixdeux]

GH,

This is getting ridiculous. It seems you just keep threatening in vain. She's to the point of saying, "quit nagging" because she's reasonably sure you are just all bluster. You need to pick where you are at...either continuing on, ignoring OM, or walking away. You can't just keep nagging...she has that right.

[everhope]

Gh.

I'm with the other two. if you can it probably has to be - moving out and going dark as you have previously wanted to do.

This could go on for years and she is is completely manipulating you while she sits o the fence waiting for her feelings to dictate her choice.

Generate feelings in her by taking you as a choice out of the piture - that way she will know what it is like to be without you which will probably tip her in your direction.

Take the control away from her.

You want her only when she is asking you to continue your marriage.

Good luck to you

[GH31]

Hello Saffie,

Good to hear from you again.

When W found out I was planning to move she said "Well that's just great..." and "how can we really be over?". So based on her own admission that the situation is ridiculous, I have decided to stay put for now. I left the house last night without saying anything whilst she was in the shower and was gone for about 3 hours. When I got home she was asking "where have you been?" and I just said "out". W said "why didn't you leave me a note? Or say where you would be?" and I replied "Someone has just admitted to caring about my whereabouts and being concerned that I didn't tell her where I was going...". She quickly went quiet again as if she was embarasesed that she cares about me whilst trying to put on this tough, indifferent exterior!

I also said to her "Since you have decided to take care of business and agree that this plan is ridiculous, I have decided to stay right here". W didn't seem perturbed by this and then trimmed my goatee and we had a chat about the day.

Let's have a look at what you've written to me Saffie...

I find your description of her to be that of one very manipulative woman

I would agree with you there. A lot of what I read suggests that all women "test" men to a degree (to see if they're a real man) and my W is probably much more of a tester than most. In the past pre-A I ruthlessly responded to her tests and made it very clear that I would not be pushed around.

Deep down I believe you know that you are going to have to follow through on your threat to leave. As things stand at the moment there is no doubt in my mind that she WILL see OM when he visits.

I am thinking this too. Although, I have told her father and some of her siblings about her plans. Her Dad was furious with her about it and W was furious that I had exposed her. I simply said "if you think it's appropriate and you're proud of it, then shout it from the rooftops". Oddly, she seems to respect the fact that I confronted OM and deleted all of the pictures from the computer - she was angry/sour about it but that lasted a maximum of 24 hours. By staying at home it will make it harder for her and OM to spend time together, particularly as her my father-in-law is aware of her deranged little plan.

If I were you I would have somewhere to move in readiness for OM's visit in case she does make contact so that you can make a quick exit. I don't think it will be long before she follows.

I have my boxes and have organised all of my belongings into one place. I think my W likes to pretend she doesn't need me, but she has stayed with me for the last 6 months and didn't like it when I came back to Australia and went totally dark.

You are so close to cracking this one.

Saffie, I hope that you are right. I do wonder occasionally if I really want to crack it though given the enormity of what has happened this year.

Deep down she is too scared to lose you, for whatever reason, otherwise she would have ditched you by now. I don't know if it's because you are a better sugar daddy to her, (sorry for being so cynical).

I have sorted this one out. I pay for the rent and she pays for all of the groceries and household bills now that we're both working. I did take her climbing the other day and out for dinner, but the following day she took me to the cinema and bought me lunch. She also gave me a weekly travel pass this week. There seems to be a bit more quid pro quo recently. Yes, I don't know why she hasn't ditched me. I have told her several times "just go to OM if you think he's everything you look for in a man" and "the cage door is open" - words to that effect, and she ends up just staying on the fence.

Methinks she needs you more than you need her.

I think there may be quite some truth in this Saffie. I know from both speaking with her that I meet W's need for conversation much better than OM, and that W and I have a much deeper connection. I can also say without blowing my own trumpet that I am better looking ;).

She also thinks I have a much thicker skin, more ambition and other things... what she got from OM that I didn't give her was including her in my life, kindness, thoughtfulness and generosity. For all of this year I have maintained 180s in this area.

Now it's a case of W being wracked with guilt for "destroying OM's dream", "letting him down", lying to him and deceiving him and the rest of it. Plus the residual infatuation chemicals in her head. What I find most curious is that she occasionally says stuff like "At least OM begged me to stay and to go back. You didn't!".

How very peculiar. I know that this can't last.

[everhope]

Hey GH hows it going - any developments ?

[GH31]

None really Everhope,

Thanks for asking. WW stayed out on Tuesday night for Melbourne Cup night and spent the night at one of her colleagues' houses. This had me really annoyed but I didn't show it.

Saw her briefly last night - caressed her head and we chatted for a bit. Then this morning she got up and left the house early and will be late coming home tonight - "watching a film" was the excuse she gave her dad.

She is definitely avoiding me and I had/have a nasty suspicion that OM is already in town. She knows that I can read her every movement and facial expression and that I can't be fooled. Yes, there'll be a reason why she doesn't want me around - usually she asks me if I want to go to the movies with her.

We shall see... No real idea how to handle this anymore. My DBing did a good job of getting her comfortable with me again and loving my company but wedding rings are still off, and I haven't had an ILY for most of this year. This M will never improve while OM is in the picture in any shape or form.

[GH31]

W did come home late last night. At 11pm.

We chatted warmly about the day and I casually observed with a smile that she's been avoiding me. She agreed. She was saying that I "hound" her... I think it's my presence which reminds her of the enormity of the situation she's created for herself. I didn't even bring the topic of OM's visit up.

She's either stayed out late or not come home every night this week, and tonight she's staying at her mother's and taking her to the movies.

She didn't tell me this either. I had to ask.

She was also cross that I didn't call her or text her during the day. This would be deranged for a normal person to say this, but quite normal for a wayward, adulterous wife who needs her ego stroked.

I think I have done everything possible to repair the marriage. Eliminated all behaviour that she finds objectionable, included her in everything, shown her lots of fun times, ML lots of times, conversation. The issue is her reluctance to kick OM to the kerb - and she's very happy to spend hours in my presence as long as I'm a good boy and don't bring up sticky issues (OM).

I think my gut is telling me to move out and go completely pitch dark. As she's avoided me this week and I have made little effort to contact her - this becomes clearer. It's when I am with her that I get confused again as everything seems so normal and natural on the surface.

I want to feel certain that moving out and going pitch dark is the right decision. I need to accept that it could end my marriage - though what I have is enjoyable I suppose; it is certainly no marriage. And, if it is the right thing to do then I need bags of courage to do it. Big Time.

I cannot believe that my WW and I have been back under the same roof now for nearly 6 months. I would have expected more progress and I know Phoenixdeux would say I've been bringing up OR too much - I avoid it like the plague except when I catch WW in lies, which is all too frequent.

[saffie]

GH,

You KNOW what you need to do....it's being ready to do it which is the hard thing.

((((HUGS))))