Trying2Live-Post #3

[TxMomw/2girls]

Good points....

agree I have been done and through with this M on a few occassions, not sure I'm 100% back either, but let some time pass as our feelings will change... they always do and then decide.. I know for me it is the future fears and my kids will be the only thing that could possibly get me through and make me take my H back... right now I don't even like him and some days Hate him..... but I hate what he is doing to me and my babies that keeps me focused...

I am struggling and in the mist of writing him an email... I feel I need to know when the affair started.. the truth.. when he told me he said it had only been 4-6 weeks and I find that hard to believe he'd leave us for a 6 week relationship... but will I get the answer I want out of him??? probably not... or not the whole truth. I know it is still R talk but I'm not sure it would make a difference right now.. he seems so done. He went and got his apartment keys today and seems so OK with it... and he has decided he'll take the girls there Friday night... if he brings OW around I'm not kidding I will pull every curly hair off her head if she touches my kids... :-)

I re-read parts of DB and I really need to focus on the last resort technique and doing my own 180's .... I need to figure out the shock factor ... what would shock him... If I started dating that would do it but I can't arrange that right now... I would go on a date if I was asked I tell you that.. my friend said to leave a condom lying around or in the trash when he stays here... I laughed so hard... not a bad idea huh!!!

I hate this.... so hard...

[Trying2live]

Texasmom,
I know exactly how you feel. There were days during the summer that I hated my H too, but something within my heart although In my head wanted to give up, I couldn't do it. Only you know what you can take and for how long. Each of us has tolerance, some short some long. There is no pressure to decide and I think when someone finally told me that it was like a relief. H was still giving money to the kids and I so I really didn't need to make any decisions.
So I decided to GAL, 180 and to try to continue to live and not focus so much on H. It's like the whole world rotated around H and what was he going to do and I just needed to live outside that world. Another friend said when in doubt, don't do anything, so I didn't. I wanted to be able to make a sound decision off of wisdom and the best choice for me and NOT make the decision about my future bases on my emotions. Emotions are what started this whole mess and I didn't want to do anything like it. So I waited. I'm now approaching 7 months on the 23rd of this month-I made it you guys!!!! If you would have told me I'd even feel ok at 7 month I would have told you to take a hike, but I made and I promise you will to.

Now if anyone would have said to me 3 months after all this happened that all this would be happening today(Plan A the SAA book-H coming around spending lots of time good conversation and even him having sex with me 5 times and cheating on her) I would have told you that you are a complete nut job. Sometimes although its the last thing we want ladies, time truly is our best friend. I still have NO EXPECTATIONS on the way he may go after I implement Plan B. But I know that I gave it my all, I am very pleased with my Plan A I have put out and pleased with the results and can walk away if necessary at a date of my choosing with clear conscience. I will implement my Plan B on Nov 22nd and I am hoping emotionally to make it to the 1 year mark which will be April 23rd. When that day arrives if I don't feel to go on longer then I will make a decision but everything I have read so far is to put off all major decisions for at least a year.
I am dreading Plan B because its so nice to have my H around and he's kinda the man I used to know but a choice has to be made and I am ready. Yes its going to hurt, he will not be here on Thanksgiving and 2 weeks later my 19 year anniversary and then Christmas and New Years. I prolly will cry and I'm sure have some down moments but I know I'm going to be okay.

I don't really advise the dating condom thing to shock him, for a few reasons. 1. is that its still pretty early in the whole thing and he's still really in fogland so it doesn't really matter what you do. 2. It explains in some of Willard Harley's books about Love busting and I think that being dishonest would be love busting. We don't want to love bust we want to make deposits. See the Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley for more about what I'm talking about.

I know he may seem done, but I would hate to say for definite. Yes there is always that chance he is. Look I thought in August mine was so done since the dummy moved in with her(and still lives with her) but look how things have shifted just a bit. Yes my H is going to have to make a decision and maybe its not going to be me, but at least I will be able to rest in knowing instead of what if'ing because I pushed myself to make a decision because of the circumstance. I know how bad it hurts for you and for your kids, I still watch my son cry, just last night in fact and it made me cry because he wanted me to convince his dad and I said I cannot do that. So believe me I understand. But if you even have the littlest desires to reconcile then limit the contact as much as humanly possible right now. IF you continue to have bad interactions with H you will deplete your love bank(explained in the SAA book) it won't matter if he does come back because you will have so depleted your love bank you will hate him.
You see you guys limiting contact and detaching somewhat for a small season is also to protect the love that you have left in your love bank that is for your spouse. The love bank is getting depleted rapidly because of the A so that's why I say reduce the negative emotions and as little contact as possible. you also can find it in the SAA book an explanation of the love bank.
Remember there is no reason you have to make a decision right now.

[Trying2live]

Hey Hope,
I have a girlfriend in a nasty D, can you give me the link to that phone we talked about?

[TxMomw/2girls]

T2L...

thanks so much for the post... I needed it and you are right.. funny how our emotions drive us and then it drives me crazy because usually if I wait it out long enough I don't feel the same way or want to react the same to him so I do need to distance myself ....

he has been out and dating her freely for only 5 1/2 weeks now so he is in the fun stages... you are right b/c I am still having too much contact and expectations I am losing love units and starting to Hate... although I do know deep down I love this man just not the man I have been faced with the last 2 months.

I can't imagine being where you are ever and it is encouraging... I would feel the same way as you.. at least you are getting part of him and as long as your H is with you he can't be giving his whole heart to OW .... as I had asked.. do you guys talk about your R? does he say anything about what is happening?

Great advice and I need to start printing out things so when I'm feeling down or emotional I can re-read....

My H is taking our girls for the first time to his new apartment this Friday night ... I'm feeling very anxious and sad but I know he needs to start living like a D man since this is what he wants, or so he thinks, ..... I will be waking up in our house with no kids for the first time and thought this would never happen under these circumstances. I need to re-read love bank... I am reading Surviving an Affair and did the quiz already... just have had too many disappointments for me to do a plan A right now... but I do need to depoist some love units and keep things pleasant as I can right now..

more later.. thanks for your thoughts.

[hope3343]

Hey all,
T2L - 5X -- when did you sneak in those other times! lol. I will send you that info. I have been thinking about that phone also but it might make me obsess. Let me know if she buys it.

Txmom, when H takes kids on Friday try not to call him. Spend the whole night blogging but avoid contact and let H truly be on his own with his kids. It will not be easy but very needed.

Still quiet at home. Did not run into H today at work. Miss him when I don't see him and aggravated when I do. D15 still not talking to him, almost 2 weeks. Went to see C today. I told him about confronting Ow -- I think sometimes he doesn't know how to take me! I am starting to feel I am not getting anything else solution based out of this anymore. He just kind of sits there and i ramble, but I think I need more. Might try to look around for another C. No one to ask for recommendation.

[faithrunner]

Hi girls!

Thank you so much for your support. Hope I have to say your comments about what I said reverberated in my head all day yesterday. It's like what T2L said, my head says end this and my heart wants to keep going. More on me in a minute.

I want to respond to all your posts. I took notes so I wouldn't forget:) Txmom-I feel like we have nearly identical situations. Our kids are the same ages and the A has lasted the same amt of time. I'm going to encourage you not to ask for details. It only hurts you. I made this mistake even last night. It sucks and it only haunts you over and over. I wish I could take it back a million times over! Also, I went through the kids staying at his apt stage. It sucks, no way around it. We called his place "the playhouse". Any night they slept there I tried to make my own plans b/c sitting in your family home with no family is rough. And it feels like you are the one being punished instead of him. Not fair. I began to actually enjoy the activities I planned and stayed in touch with friends, so I became more positive overall. Actually, I'll admit when he moved back home I missed my freedom to do that stuff! Crazy!

Hope, I agree with you about getting a new counselor. Mine only listens, too. I want someone who can offer solid advice (wait, that's what you guys do! Maybe I don't need a new one . . .)

T2L, I appreciate what you said about when in doubt do nothing. Also, I really need to limit our interaction right now, b/c yesterday I really was beginning to hate him. Last night was rough.

I went until evening without talking to him, and then just put kids on the phone to say we were on our way home. He got home before me, had checked the call history on the phone, my computer, etc. I always clear my history every day, so he doesn't know I blog here. But, I don't know what he was looking for.

Anyway, I get the kids settled for dinner and I say I'm going upstairs to shower. I just couldn't be in the same room with him for very long. After the kids went to bed he sits down, I say I really don't want to talk. He says will you just listen for a second? I'm thinking this is a bad idea, but I stand by the stairs and don't look at him. He starts talking about how he didn't realize OW seeing kids would hurt me so much, just 45min in a diner, didn't touch her etc. I can't remember exactly what he said, but I got drawn in and responded. From there it got UGLY. We said things we had never said to eachother. Just angry stuff. I said he was a come and go dad. He belittled my faith, etc. We signed out separation agreement (which he had printed out that day-OW is a lawyer and I think is advising him), only after I said I wouldn't sign it until he added something about not bringing OW around kids until we both agreed. He said fine and added it. He noticed right away that I wasn't wearing my rings and said angrily, "you finally took your rings off, I'm glad. I was wondering when you would do that. What, are you in love with someone? Fine, good for you (yelling)." What was that about? Sounds like it hurt him to see my rings off and he certainly doesn't like the idea of me with someone else, you think? I told him to leave, he did.


Two seconds later, he came back in. I'm sorry about everything I said out of anger. He goes on to say that he loves OW, imagines being married to her one day (that sucked to hear). I said, have you told her that? He says NO! I say, she wants a life of you being constantly connected to all of us? He says yes, with a smile on his face. Looks so happy. I feel like I'm being blotted out of my own life! My own fault for asking questions, didn't need to know his details-even if they do seem imaginary. He says our bigges problem is, are you ready for this, he can't open up to me. And, he can be open with her. He says I've done a better job listening lately, but he just feels like he can't talk to me. Says loudly "I don't love you! We are not getting back together when I get back!" This is something I have never even suggested, so I can only think that it runs through his mind. My friend says she thinks he does a lot more imagining his A than actually doing. He's never with her! He claims he is a good dad and doesn't email when he's with the kids, would like to spend some nights sleeping at home with them before he leaves (with me elsewhere). So that's more time without her. And, they haven't been physical yet. He said he would tell me about that(I believe him, and I'm dreading that day). So what's the point of this? Why is he dragging his feet?

He says: If I had known how upset you would have been about her coming to breakfast I would have never done it (well he did know, so whatever). I never want to hurt you, I will spend every day trying to rebuild your trust and regain your friendship. You are one of the most important people in my life and I know I have more issues in this than you do. I said I have done nothing but behave with integrity, covered for you, supported you and even championed your goals during this whole process. I know I will feel pain from this my whole life, but so be it. I say-don't you ever get upset that this didn't work out? He says I think about that all the time.

From there, he leaves again, calls me twice from the car - same deal-hoping to build trust and friendship. Saying he's sorry.

Any dim sparks of hope in this nonsense? Sandi, you once said you thought our situation was hopeful. If you're around, do you still think so? He said he could see that I was doing things for myself lately and he liked it. I guess he noticed the GAL.

I do think I'll put my rings back on. I took them off out of anger, and truly I am committed to the promise I made before God. I am a stander. I won't make a big deal about it but they are going back on.

What should I do now? Limit interaction? Try to be friendly and feminine again? That seemed to be working last week with the "honey"s in our conversation and going in for the kiss by accident. What do you think?

[hope3343]

Hi all,

First T2L, thinking more about exposure, might need your support in making a phone call or 2. Will fill you in with more details later. I got yet another idea!

Faith, your H is in full MLC babble. That is why he says one thing and then calls you back with something else. H is confused and in lalalalala land. Interesting to note that OW is an Atty. And what type of personality do they have -- confidence and assertive. 2 things that your H might be attracted to including her power position. How is an atty going to make time for your young children? Not going to happen.
Read the SAA survey for your H in the back and see what the 5 top drivers that are important to him and then use that as your plan of attack.

Also, I do not see OW waiting for him to return from Iraq. She will move on. You will have plenty of opportunity to DB across the sea because you have his children and H needs to stay in contact with you.
As for what I wrote yesterday, I wasn't trying to change your opinion but both of those sentences you stated just hit me.

My older D called last night and was pretty down. She had texted H a few times over the weekend just to keep in contact and H never aknowledged or called her. She feels he is isolating himself from his family. She was very depressed, said I was always able to talk to Dad and now it is like he doesn't care. I told her he is screwed up right now and very involved with OW and she was crying. She said I hope that I do not just start hating him and be done with him. She said what will the holiday be like with it so messed up and where is Dad going -- to the OW. I said that might be the case and no plans are made for Thanksgiving.
This is so hard. I feel for my family. I think when she comes for Thanksgiving she wants to approach OW and tell her how she wrecked our family. (who does she take after?)
I pray everyday that OW will leave my H and pray that H will open his eyes to this she-devil.

[Trying2live]

Faith and ya'll too.

I've been really thinking about this and shared it with hope too.

The 1st most most most important thing that needs to happen is to reduce the negative stuff happening between you and your spouse. This is furthering the damage. This is probably going to mean that your really going to have to limit contact. If your H has moved out like mine then it's going to be really easy for you. If not your definitely going to have to be creative. But it can be done. And it does not mean be snotty. If you live with them be gone when they are there-use this time to go to the gym and do GAL activities and leave when they come to visit the kids-sweetly say I'm so glad your hear I needed to get some errands done I'll be back at the end of the visit and scram. you may need to turn down some phone calls and maybe even not respond until the next day. When you talk on the end conversation quickly and sweetly-it was great talking with you but I gotta go I'm late kinda thing. Maybe don't respond to emails for a day or so if it's not important. Let the dust settle and the best way for this is reduce negative emotions. Always interact sweetly, cheerfully and be confident. This can be done-yes its hard as heck-but you can do it.

Ok I want you to get this visual. For all of us the marriage and relationship as we knew it is gone. It must start all over again. Guess what that means? Do you remember how you courted each other? Remember how the friendship and conversation was the start? None of this can happen until all this negative emotion, arguing and blaming is going on. I'm not saying you don't have a right-you do, but is that going to get you the results you want?
My H said that I didn't listen, and I had to look at that and accept in my part of the breakdown. Remember in DB how she says we have investigating to do, find out what it is our H found so attractive in the OW. For me I think a good part was the ability to listen, it hurts to know this but I can live in hurt land and lash out or I can give this one good stinking fight for my marriage.

I post at another forum and they help me with my Plan B. They are amazed at how I can hold it together. Like last week when I gave my H a lap dance(ok this is a 180 for me because I never initiated and of course the cheated on OW again LOL) and guess what I saw on him a stinking hickie(the Hoe is marking her territory) now I could have came unglued(and believe me it stung) but I smiled and looked at it and said ewe I don't like your hickie and laughed. He made some dumb excuse and had a dumb look on his face. Later I say yeah right that is a hickie and I laugh, someone's getting nervous smile and walk out of the room and dropped it totally. There are more instances of situations where I could have went ballistic but I made the conscious CHOICE to bridle my mouth. It's not easy but losing my marriage would be worse.

I NEVER talk about our relationship status, I'd rather he wonder a bit and since he's in the fog still I don't want to her fog status on my marriage.

We all must become masters of our selves during this fight for our marriage. Masters of our mouth mostly and its the hardest thing we may ever do because of the pain factor, but I want you all to get to the goal that you want and that's your marriage.

Your relationships have to start all over. Pull back limit the contact, no relationship talks EVER, allow a little bit of time to let things die down then there may be the point where the friendship can start. Your going to have to accept the fact that for now they are going to be bad fathers, mine was and I didn't protect him from it. You are going to have to pull more weight in the parental area, but thank God the kids have you! They are not going to do anything with normal common sense and if you argue with a crazy man what does that make you? As time goes by the fog lifts from time to time but that doesn't happen for a bit.
everyday I have hope for my marriage, but DAILY I HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS. I live by this and it protects me from additional hurts. When I expected normalcy and love from my H i only continued to get hurt, not I expect nothing and it keeps me safer and then I can continue a strong Plan A(SAA book).

Ladies, its a hard season to be going through this but visualize your self having as much joy and peace as you can during this time. Don't visualize your self suffering. Try to say daily, I am going to make it and I am going to be ok during the Holidays and I am going to try to have happiness in the midst of the storm. Our bodies literally respond to our words, there are so many studies on this. Start speaking life and victory over yourself.
Have no expectations over the holiday of your spouses, if you have any expectation at all is should only be to experience alien activity from them, okay. Even when it comes to the kids. Make a short term goal for yourself to make it through the holidays with as much joy as you can. Its easier to shoot for shorter goals and more achievable as well.

I want you all reconciled in your marriages. WE all have a 50/50 chance. That means there is a 50% percent chance they may come home and you need to work it like you never have before and apply all the strategies to accomplish this. It's one thing to have knowledge but a whole other to apply it. Everyone has knowledge but few apply it and those are the successful ones.

Sorry its so long, but we have a chance, there is always that small chance so draw a darn line in the sand, get out your duct tape and apply to mouth LOL(I'm kidding), ok back to subject...draw a line in the sand and use the tips, tools and strategies to fight for your marriage. Have the resolve of a warrior because you truly are in the fight of your life and its gonna take a focused warrior to win this one, and add lots of pinches of prayer and I think maybe we all got a shot.

I believe you all can do this.

I'm off to vote!!!

Twinhope,Marisol, Jgrind and others big hugs and hellos. XOXO

[hope3343]

Hey T2L, I have to say I give you credit. If I saw hickie on my H I would brand it on him with a iron! Of course what you should have done is branded him and let H bring your mark home to OW. Pretty funny. But you handled it and handled it well!

Your right -- forget the old and bring in the new. Of course I think it is easier to say because I have not seen H since Friday. It bugs me but it is easier on my soul by not seeing him and having him stir up all my emotions.

Holidays I think are bumming most of the people on this board. My H could have at least waited till January (joke everyone), but like anything this to shall pass. 2009 will be better for all of us no matter what happens. We have bad days but each day is making us stronger.

Went to the gym at lunch and I have been increasing weights. I am into my 6th week and I am noticing changes in my old body. I have been picking up some new clothes here and there just to get by but today I put my pants on and they look like clown pants in the legs. I am trying to hold off and then buy one new outfit in a smaller size for work that I can wear for one of my meetings that H goes to. This is one of my biggest 180's. I have had a weight problem most of my life and this is the thinnest I have been in about 15 years. I know it has really been surprising my H and he keeps asking if I am still going to the gym during lunch. In contrast H is putting on what I am losing and a bloated face to go with it! He was always the better looking one and I am sure he does not like it. My only wish is that OW is gaining weight right along side of him from the drinking and fast food habits that H has.

I am going to try and enjoy the holidays no matter what. I am visualizing that my H who will be spending Xmas with OW will have a terrible time and maybe this is what will turn him around. Keep praying.

[AllW8SBF]

Hey T2L I'm wondering if you could answer this first questions and everyone else can answer the rest.

Now waiting on answers about which book should I start first - SAA or DR/DB?

Do I give hello and good bye hugs, or kisses on the cheek forhead?


Well last night was semi pleasant. H told me about this OW that he was trying to get a date with that was well these woman are all a joke - 1) to be after a man who is separated but living with W and won't be leaving anytime soon. 2)he's pathetic because it's very obvious these woman are not interested or there is not much to pick from so the ones he gets a chance with he literally grovels. This one chick left a message saying her friends took her phone from her and don't think he's good for her and while leaving the message her friend is in the background saying "not you buddy", and she says hopefully we can do this again later. And he has the nerve to tell me he's going to sweat her out! WHAT A JOKE - Sweat her out she's not interested! GOD there are tons of these stories, I can tell their all look warm to him and there is one that seems to be hot to the point of obsessive which I can tell is getting on his nerves.
So anyway he has a sitch at work that this chick is acting childish so I say what is with you, you have teenage girl magnet, every girl acts like their in High School.

I went out to my dance class again, little did I know it was an 1hr & 1/2 vs 1hr. But cool, I actually went up to the teacher to ask for her to show me a step I was having problem with and usually I feel ignored in general. Well she tried getting out of other talks to come talk to me so that felt great.

Then I went home and practiced some more and he came up and knocked on the door and asks - Did I keep you from this? You never did this before. I'm like no, I kept myself from this and I'm enjoying myself now. He just stared at me, again like he wanted answers with his eyes.

Later he asked hey once you have all these moves what do you plan to do with them? I said I've got places to use them. With a Smile I wish I would have winked and I wish I would had a better smile with it but still.

Holidays will be tough ladies but we need to focus on positives, much like our wise T2L girl suggests.

TXMom - please make plans when kids go to stay at H's. And read some positive inspiration, blog, come here, whatever.
Hey think of it this way - you don't have to arrange a babysitter!

Hope I'm with you 2009 will be better no matter what side of the coin we end up on. And as long as we focus on us we will be better than ever.

Oh forget who it is but someone is thinking it's the end because they moved out - well H moved out 4 years ago, (identical problem as now - some woman made him do tricks so he did) well he came back. now bad part is I didn't really try to fix those problems then, I masked them put tape on the vase but never really remedied them. So if I get the chance this time I am not going to stop.

How long did it take everyone to vote - me at 6AM before doors open 44 people in front of me took 35 minutes.
Girl here it took her 45min and only 15 in front of her.

Hope much like how your going through this and feeling this pain, your daughter is too, and I think she is old enough for you to pass on some of your coping or at least as you said, he's in a fog and won't hear a word she says especially if ANY of it is relatively SANE WORDS. And this goes for OW also.

You know H has specifially told me that OW did these things for him - gave all her attention to him, like I said sitting towards him in the car while he drives, sitting on his lap at other times. Calling him baby, sweetie, honey - I never did any of this, and I do notice when he talks to these other woman he does end or begin the calls with honey, sweetie, etc.
So I have been starting to do these things GOOD? Bad? Let me know.

Please most important question - DO I start reading DB/DR or SAA first - which one??????