Trying2Live-Post #3

[Trying2live]

Ok so quick update, as I have jammed packed. H came over yesterday early and stayed from 12 to 10 PM. He cheated on OW again . LOL.
I full Plan A for the Surviving An Affair book. We had a really nice time yesterday. Nice conversation and relaxing time.

But I wanted to give you these most important tips for the day. Remember, I am abt 6 1/2 months in. I cut off 70% during the 1st 5 months to reduce the negativity. I did all of these things below, I hope it helps to have kinda a focus.

But these are the MOST important things I think that have helped me get this far. I have personally done all these. I think they exude confidence and I always kept in mind that my H already knows I want reconciliation, which most of them do.

1. Read Divorce Remedy
2. Read Surviving An Affair
3. Stop the chase IMMEDIATELY(calls, texts, email, etc)
4. Stop talking about the relationship(OW doesn't why R U?)
5. GAL HARD!!! Be creative, try dance lessons or something fun
6. 180 in as many areas as you can especially where H complained
7. Get a support group for people who agree with what your doing
8. Pray for your H and Pray for yourself
9. When passing off the kids be cheerful and very presentable
10. Do not talk about or bring up OW
11. Stop trying to be his conscience or reason(you cant he's fogged)even concerning kids. You'll keep hitting a block wall
12. You be the best parent you can until H de-fogs

These are the most important things to do and immediately.

I also stopped say I love you. He's my reason, and I found them in a book by a therapist and it makes a lot of sense.

Some of what they are thinking is: What? how can she love me? What does she mean by that? I she trying to make me feel guilty? What does she want when she says I love you? Does that just mean I can't live with out you? Is she crazy......

There are more but you get the idea, so I stopped say that 5 months ago and instead say, take care, have a good day or sign off emails with C'ya later, talk to ya soon, great hearing from you, {{hugs}} stuff like that.

[faithrunner]

Ladies, I think I blew it. Well, actually, H blew it and I let him have it bigtime.

Let me back up and say that we have had a great couple of days, he was even leaving his phone in the car! No emailing! He let "honey" slip a couple times, even forgot what he was doing and leaned in to kiss me goodbye after the kids' halloween party at school (I turned and spoke to a mom next to me, played it off).

Then, this afternoon he comes to me and says I need to be honest with you "I think our friendship is going great and I wanted you to know that I have been talking to OW and we have been out to dinner twice. I didn't know if you had been wondering." I say, "I hadn't, it has nothing to do with me (as I'm chopping potatoes for dinner). I say, "so you're dating?" He says, "I wouldn't say that." I say, Ok, It's going well then? He says, I think so. And that was it. I starting chatting about dinner, the kids, whatever. Kept smiling. I felt like a DB champ! He looked uncomfortable and said he was going to leave to go do some work. I say feel free to go, we'll be fine. It sucked, and it felt like being kicked in the stomach, but I thought it was kind of a good step that he wanted to be honest, at least that's what I was thinking.

Later this evening, S4 says he met Daddy's new friend at breakfast today. I hit the roof. We had agreed before he moved out the second time that he wouldn't bring her around the kids until at least after he was back from Iraq (I lived through that madness as a kid, it sucks meeting your parents' dates). Needless to say, I was livid.

The kids were downstairs and I called H and went postal. I said you knew how I would feel about this when you called her to meet you. He said, yes and I'm sorry. What is all this crap about being friends. I said no thanks to that friendship. I say, I don't want you in my life. I need a break from you. I have behaved with dignity and supported you through all this and this is how you treat me. He says I'm sorry you're upset with me. I say, that's not how to apologize and I say leave me alone, bye. He calls back, again I say just leave me alone, we can work out a schedule for the kids but I don't want you in my life.

Ugh! I actually took my rings off for the first time. I don't want someone like this in my life, esp someone who professes to care about me then deliberately goes behind my back like this. He had said when he moved back this summer that I had changed in every area that upset him and he could see what a different person I am. I do feel that way, too. Then, tonight, he called up the old record of how he hasn't loved me for the past three years, and the real kicker- volunteered to go to Iraq to get away from me. I deserve better than this. I don't know where to go from here, and I'm frustrated b/c I felt some emotion from him the past few days. I guess that's gone now?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Trying2live]

I got this lil read from someone who is doing the Surviving An Affair Plan in the book by Willard Harley...I Love it....Think about getting this book too after you finish DB.....(WS=Walkaway Spouse)

It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.

Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear

Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".

There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.

SAA is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.

You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.

Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.

If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.

Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.

Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.

Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.

Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.

[hope3343]

First Faith, don't beat yourself up. It happens. Of course he is playing the old record of I don't love you blah blah blah. You can get along for a whole month and have one bad moment and that is the only thing they remember.
REad T2L list above. Follow it. I don't know how I would feel if my H told me he went on a date? My H won't admit he is seeing anyone. It is pathetic that is because she works for him. I know you are angry but see how you feel in the morning. I know we all question ourselves why do we want them when they are like this.
This is tough.

Tl2 you are doing well. I am happy to hear it. You know we are rooting for you. Has he been talking R at all or bringing up OW? I can't imagine getting to that point again so you give us some hope. How are the kids getting on with him? Keep doing what you are doing -- one day at a time.

As for me it was a busy weekend (lonely but busy). D15 had homecoming dance. She looked absolutely beautiful. Took pictures and they had great time. D15 said I could send a picture to H but if she did not want OW to see it. I called him and said your D looked beautiful, I will forward a picture to you but you can't share it with OW...D said this was her condition or forget it. H said fine, I sent it and he send a text back saying she was beautiful. I texted back -- "she looked so grown up tonight. She looked like a princess, you would have been so proud of her. Take care." (truth dart). Then we went to San Antonio for soccer game. H sends text to me -- what is the final score. I send a text back (an hour later) giving him the score and how she did. Then I said "go giants - Dallas stinks and all their fans". H was watching the game with OW (who is a huge Dallas fan). No word since. H is missing D and all her events. It is sad. Nothing I can do about it. I am detaching as much as I can.

Hope the rest of you are doing good.
GAL - back to gym tomorrow, Friday I made plans for dinner and go to a play in the next town. Need to try and fill up more time.

[Trying2live]

Hey faith,
I think we all can say we would feel the same way and who knows we may have done the same thing. Yes the argument might have caused a little set back but nothing major. Don't worry about blowing it, everything in life is learning.

I took off my rings when this all happened so don't beat your self up over it.

First take the time to decide if you want the marriage. You have to know this first because you are in for a ride no matter what. We all are and it is not an easy or pleasant ride. It will be very hard and painful and yet we still have no guarantees. I think for me what my decision was i have a goal to make it to one year. My 1st goal was 6 months and I made it now is the next 6 months. I feel that I want to be able to say that I as least gave it a year and that If I have to end the marriage I can say I gave it my best I tried all I knew and can go forward(if I have to) with a clean conscience and not wondering.

No one can tell us how long to wait or how much to endure. We each have to seek our hearts to see what is right for us. For me, at this point I feel 1 year is fair, actually more than fair. Now for some of you it may be more or some it may be less.

First seek out what it is you want. Does that make sense? Then we can go from there. Its a hard thing to know. It took me 5 months to really really finally know that Ok I want the marriage and I am going to stand and fight. I went up and down and all over the place before that. But now that I know what I want I can set the course.

[TxMomw/2girls]

Ok

T2L - tell me what you and your H are talking about... how are you not bringing up something, R, anything? and How is he not? feel us in on that part.... or are you guys just acting as if... doesn't he live with OW? Crazy.. my H is so far from even coming close to wanting sex with me... right now I hate him so it would be hard for me too unless I had a few drinks... HA HA

Faithrunner..... I don't know what I'd do... I'd hit the roof if my H brought his OW around my kids... we have said the same thing that we wouldn't right now... so far he is holding his end of the deal up... but in reality not too many OW really want to be around her mans kids ... at the beginning she'll act all cool but it will get old.. bottom line I'd say look we need to set some boundries.. what benefit is this for the kids? That we all need to keep the kids in mind first... he has to know that there is no purpose for your kids to meet anyone ... you are not even D'd....

Look for my post here or newcomers... I had another crazy husband weekend.... I will update on T2L's thread later I might go copy and paste...

hang in there ladies...

[Trying2live]

TXmom,
Well we talk about lots of stuff. Ok, think back to when you and H first met or started dating. You didn't talk about your relationship. You probably talked about a lot of things. H and I talk about politics and the elections since we both think the same, stuff going on at work, the kids, mutual friends what ever. It's not a stiff trying to hard thing if that makes sense, I just try to be myself. Since I took the test in the Surviving An Affair book I know what his top 5 needs are so i meet them. This helps me in the conversation area too.

You see for all of us it's almost like our R with our H's need to start completely over. Probably even from a friendship level. Affairs a lot of the time start with an emotional connection and not always sex as with my H. But the very 1st thing that needs to happen is reduce the negative emotions and this can only happen with very very little contact until situation is somewhat neutralized then the friendship can start to happen I think and then maybe a connection can begin to happen again too. Think about getting the SAA book and maybe the book on the art of conversation.

It so important to have talks about other things besides the relationship that's how you keep a marriage fresh too. Make sense?

[AllW8SBF]

OK faith I'm with T2L you said what I would have. So don't be hard on yourself - you actually kept more composure then I did. I'd suggest (not sure if I should be making any suggestions) but I'd suggest go with your gut - do exactly what your told him, you need space from him. For you and it will be a little wake up for him.
Use the time to figure out much like what T2L posted - do you really WANT him or just NEED him?

I really liked that post about the Fear that holds us back. I'm going to print that and keep it in my inspiration book.

Speaking of books - ok T2L I know you've more than suggested get SAA book, but here is my question - I've told you girls I've been reading Seven days to Sex Appeal. This is GAL thing for me, as I'm hoping it makes me feel better about myself because I can be so tomboyish. I'm almost done with it. But I also have the most recent DB book not sure if that is DB or DR but which ever is the one they say is more concise and most recent is the one I have. And I started reading it one night but only got like 8 pages in.
So I'm not sure if I should read that (DB or DR) or go get the SAA book and start that. I've been meaning too but I have all these other books to read and not sure which to read first. I'm a slow reader, it takes me reading a page 2 times before it sinks in.

So this weekend was not perfect. Friday got home late because of traffic, but h told me don't worry just drive safe and we'll leave when I'm ready. He waited when I got home to get all dressed up - he didn't dress up. He usually hates to wait on me for something he feels is nothing for him, or something I want, so him waiting meant a lot.
I dressed up as little Red Riding hood - HOT. We went to the Blackhawks game and had lots of looks, pictures taken of fans with me. H laughed at all the looks I was getting. They won and we had a great time at the game. Then he asked if I wanted to go out afterwards I said sure. Oh during the whole car ride I sat turned towards him (something he said OW did that made him drive better and made him feel special) so I looked at him whole time.
We went to a bar/nightclub by our house that was having a Halloween Costume party. I did a little non confident things that I could tell annoyed him. But we danced - my feet were killing me so I went and sat down and told him go - go and dance.

Well at one point at the club I got self indulgent and lonely and wanted to feel attractive and loved (I must mention I have really been praying to God to guide me and give me strength and to talk to H) well I went to go take off my ring, so guys would come up to me. Well God was present I couldn't no matter what I did it would not come off. Not even 1 minute after I was stopped trying I had some guy (he was trying with everyone so I wasn't "special")he comes up to me and starts talking to me. Once again, God knew what I needed and what gave me both guidance in those mere moments of not allowing me to take off my ring but giving me a feel good pep me up.
He's with us, just believe.

Well we go home around 1AM H got dissed a few too many times and my feet hurt. So we left, well I changed and we were going to bed. And well he started his usual thing when he wants some. He sent the dog off the bed, and got really close and started leaning over to me, told me he had a great time, yada yada. I'm like so did I, I talked about all the things of the evening. Then he leaned into kiss me, We kissed. And I just said, that I know your over me so this won't go any further than that.
He got upset rolled over turned off the light and said that was just to thank you for a great night.
I'm like well thank you.

Well I kinda dozed off, but then all of a sudden I feel his hand on my tummy and he starts pawing at me. In seconds I was just so wanting him. So well we used each other is what I keep telling myself, even though I was so hoping the nightmare would be over - but knew it wouldn't - kept the whole no expectations in my head. We did do somethings that I'm sure he lost respect for me. But some much for his profile - moved past r mind, BODY, and heart.

Once we were done I just kissed him on the cheek and said I know that does not change a thing - I don't think that was quite good to say but I love you could have been worse

Saturday we slept in, then I had GAL to do - I went skating with some people from work, then came back, and went to church. H was basically jerked around all day and ended up not getting to go on a first date with this girl he REALLY liked (but had not met yet) - Crazy. Anyway so my sis called and let me know what was up for the evening.
I met up with her and H stayed home. I had a great time, and my sis and her friend who I'm semi close to (I'm close to a few of my sis friend - one stood up in my wedding). She told me we are going out (I did tell my sis whats going on and she told her friend - and it turns out she also knew about before when h and I split because we hired her dad to sell our house so he told her) Anyway so now she's like we are going out that I need to. So we will see where that goes.
Came home at like 3AM even with the turning the clocks back!!!
He was still awake. He said he was going to go back to the bar from last night but didn't instead as he put it, when one door closes another opens, so I guess he found someone else online that night, and tells me. This Friday he is going out right after work and next weekend he is going to Indianapolis. And this is a really big deal - he's leaving right after work and well he's just so excited he made it sound like he doesn't know if he wants to come back. But I was just like ok. I got ready for bed.
I have found that when he thinks he has a chance with someone he really trys to push me away and does the whole I'm going to sleep in the other room, cook my food, wash my clothes, etc. etc., but then when he's been strung along, dissed, left out in the cold, he'll be oh I need my friend to talk to.
So with this new possibility he went all day and night Saturday to 3:30 AM Sunday to say, we need to talk, about last night, I'm like I know, he's like you know what. I say, we both had needs and they both were satisfied. GOOD right? Just brushed it off.
So after all that he was nosey and trying to find out what I did that night. I just said pleasantrys and changed the subject. H said so this was a party at your sis and her boyfriends clubhouse and I'm like no.
He is just so nosey about what I do. I try not to be with him, because I don't want to one hear all the gory details about his dates. Cause he's not going out with friends he's trying to find someone.

Sunday we slept in again. And I told him if he could just let the dog out before he leaves tomorrow he said, I'm not going anywhere tomorrow. He had said he'd be gone most the day. He asked if I was going to watch the game - UMMMM HOPE we are Cowboy fans - he has been all his life (grew up in Tulsa) and I became one. Well he makes himself breakfast, and then he gets a phone call - now he is going out - back to the OTB - which is what I originally thought he was doing.
All these girls don't get back to him right away - he plans things and they call last minute so it's been bugging him.

Anyway he went out, didn't say good bye or when he'd be back. I watched the game then shopped. Came home and he was there. On the computer AGAIN. I put groceries away. Watched some tv then went up to bed. Right past him. I got ready, did some things then closed the door. Noticed that the light in the other room was on - the humidifier was in the other room, the pillow on his side gone. So I figured he's sleeping in there.
He knocks and I make him wait - for no reason just to have control. He comes in and seems like he wants to talk.
Uggghhh here we go again.
I'm trying to turn on the fan, so he goes to help I snap I can do it, then he sees it's unplugged. He goes to try and plug it in, I snap I can do it. I snap so now you want to be all nice and talk - you don't say goodbye or hello but now you want to talk. He says hey you don't want to keep track of hellos and goodbyes cause you won't win any prizes (again he feels I don't say hello or goodbye, I just leave or come - I do say hello and goodbye before just no hug or kiss when I leave) now I've been trying to be cheerful and saying hi and bye. But again don't think I should be hug or kiss since well you know - What do you think, since he didn't like that I didn't do that, do I do it? How do I if he doesn't want me to do loving things?

He's like there is something that's bothering you more than just the hello. I'm like oh you forgot to close the garage door out to the garage. He's like I'm sorry.

He went and got ready for bed then his phone starts ringing - right around 10pm so this is going to be a routine I can tell. He goes into the other bedroom.

Convo must not last long as he comes in saying he needs something I'm thinking his alarm clock but nope he gets a mag. Hope he woke up on time.

Oh and I prayed when I went to bed that God talks to him. Well at around 3:30 AM he comes in and gets a cold Eeeze and a nyquil - AAAAHHHHH he's getting a cold. God what you doing to him. You know he's in a fog, I wonder if since they don't listen to anyone else when their in the fog they will listen to God?

I was bad I kinda hope that he gets a cold sore next week to ruin the following weekends stuff.

I have a FEAR like discussed about that, If I got on this trip during the week before Thanksgiving - which is also my birthday - that he may bring someone home to my house and that other bedroom.

We really have no boundaries.

Since he is going to sleep in there, I started taking all care of my Boomer and now he won't be with him at night or in the morning.

I think he needs a little see how it is without us.

So progressions - I'm really letting God take control - Jesus take the Wheel" so to say.
I will hopefully be going out more, now that my sis friend, my sis, and I've joined a few more Meetup groups.

OH by the way - need GAL stuff go to the Meetup website create a profile and put things that interest you and you can see what groups there are out there and you can meet some new people. Anything, even things like I did General Hospital, divorce support, volleyball, dining out, movies, etc.

I really am letting God just help me. I find irony in the correlation of (he mentioned how both our teams Cubs/Cowboys suck this year after expecting so much) well I find it funny that they are floundering and so is our relationship - another convo from God?

Oh you know I have to say I know you will all disagree and I do too, just because the kids don't understand and its hard on them, and they are put in bad places. But part of me wishes I had a child because then (here is my selfish part) I'd have someone who loves me.

Now waiting on answers about which book should I start first - SAA or DR/DB?

Do I give hello and good bye hugs, or kisses on the cheek forhead?

Here is something to ponder - Woman have many flaws, men have 2 - Everything they say and Everything they do

[faithrunner]

Thank you all for your support and replies.

This will be one year for me on Thanksgiving day. I have known for a long time that I don't need him, today I don't think I want him either.

He has called three times and emailed me twice this morning, I haven't responded. I think I'll just go dark for a while. I need some space. I'll continue to read all the books to be able to help myself recover, but I don't know about working on my marriage. You all know how our feelings change with each interaction, so I know I'm not set in stone- but I really feel today like if we didn't have kids he would never see my face again. And, that would be ok with me.

[hope3343]

Hello everyone,
First All, looks like you had a busy weekend. I worry about you having R with your H. He seems to be trying to see many women and with all types of STD or worse going around -- please please wear protection. I think your H is a sex addict and is he seeing C for this? Also are you going to any type of C for yourself. I think you are doing good with GAL but make sure you are doing all those things for yourself and what you want, not just to see how H sees it and reacts to it. You are at least going out and meeting new people which is a good thing for you.

I know I'm not set in stone- but I really feel today like if we didn't have kids he would never see my face again. And, that would be ok with me.

Hi Faith, tough times. I can say we all feel like throwing out our M when our H's are so inconsiderate and just pull our hearts out. But in reading your last sentence the hard part is yes we do have kids and what impact it has on them. You also said that you hated when you had to meet your parent's dates, so that is telling me what a negative impact it had on you growing up. You are the only one who can decide what is right for you and you have our support no matter what you decide. But I just thought it was telling by you with those 2 sentences.
I am very hurt by my H's actions and his A with OW, but at least by trying I will feel that I did all that I could. I have to figure out for me when "enough is enough". Keep us posted.

T2L, I do agree about having conversations with our Hs. Your right we forget how. I know I got in a rut only talking about job, D, bills -- nothing else. I remember when H was still living with me at the end and one night, H says I am going out - - I hate looking at these 4 walls all the time. Which was probably true at that point because weekends we were not doing anything social at all.

Txmom will look at your thread and post there.