Surrendering to hope

[Jen_Jam]

Hi Jen,

Thanks so much for breaking your silence on this one occasion. In fact it is probably the time that I need advice the most, so much appreciated!

you are very welcome

I did in fact send H another email today, one that let him know I would not stand in the way of him moving out, and that I don't need him to stay nights here if he doesn't want to, and that I don't have to have Christmas in Lisbon if he doesn't want to. I hope this was still OK, as it was intended to show me dropping the rope and not looking weak...

One motto to think of ... "show don't tell". This email is fine, I'm thinking of the motto as more in general

I may in fact try the LRT though for a few reasons it's somewhat of a challenge right now given the unstable living sitch and the shared finances.

What can YOU do alleviate this? Anything at all? You may not be able to sort it all, but I bet you can do some of it ... have a think about it.

he says he will end up killing himself if he is forced to live with me. This is not normal, I know.

Yep, I agree 100% - this is not something a person in a rational and calm state of mind would say. So don't take anything else he says as calm or rational either!

Maybe soon I will be able to come from more of a position of strength...

You will, if that is what you really want. You are a strong lady and you will find a way.

[istherehope]

I just got a response to my email...

"I think you are amazing."

Glad it wasn't more than that, like I think you are amazing but...

Still not sure what this means in terms of us trying to work things out, but I am actually pretty touched by this short and sweet response.

And it's true now, I am amazing

ITH

[daisy282]

Hello ITH

I think it is nice that he responded to your letter and said something nice but at the same time I can see that you are going back to "let's work things out no matter what" mentality and there is nothing really wrong with that but I am still very very concerned about the way he treats you and the things he says to you being abusive. I know you do not want to deal with that, who would, but I think you really need to. As Ali said, you always rush to defend him. Don't you understand that is the classic response to abuse? I guess the real question is, what do you consider abuse? Where do you personally draw the line?

I also think it would be good to know what your reaction is when your H says these terrible, mean things to you? Do you curse him out and scream, break down and cry, verbally lash out at him, or all of the above?

I am not trying to rain on your parade and I hope I am not irritating you by bringing this up but I honestly feel that you are so wrapped up in saving the marriage that you have not been taking a close look at whether or not it is worth saving in its current condition. You seem like a goal driven person with drive and ambition and I am worried that this has turned into a goal that you can reach. A project. I could be way off, it's just a feeling I have right now.

You keep saying you want your H and you to go to counseling and while I think it would be a really good idea I don't see him agreeing to it right now. But I honestly think you should set up some IC for yourself so you can work through some of this with a professional. I know that talking to Jody helps you a lot but she is a DB coach who is in the business of saving marriages. I just think it might help to talk to someone with no bias towards the relationship who you can sit down with and talk all this out with. The name calling ("nicknames" as you would put it), the verbal rants that he uses to put you down and pick at your relationship, etc.

I'm just really worried about you ITH. I hope this post does not sound mean or attacking. I care about you as a friend and as someone who has been there to help me through my struggles and I just want the best for you.

But I will respect your wishes and if you tell me to drop the issue I will do so in a heartbeat.

(((ITH)))

[istherehope]

Hi Daisy,

You are very sweet to be so concerned, seriously, and it doesn't bother me in the least.

I am defending some things like the nicknames, because I do them too and never thought about it as an issue until posting on this board. Whether or not they are healthy or not in the long run, I don't know...I don't think this is something I can actually deal with until and unless we make some progress in other areas.

I don't think he has been abusive in a way beyond any of the other MLC WAHs on the board. I mean the things he says are very hurtful, but they are in line with what the others tend to say as well. He hasn't raised his voice etc. since I've been in Poland. Even last night, the night that was probably the worst that I've ever had, he kept saying that he felt guilty and understood why I would be so upset. I told him he was mean, cruel, and selfish, and I cried and was generally a bit unstable...I did not yell though, or call him names or curse or anything...

So I do still want to save this marriage, but my short-term goal is to focus on the friendship, that used to be very real...I am not expecting what I used to expect, and have taken to heart the fact that I need to look at myself more. I know that things the way they are now are not sustainable. I don't want a marriage either where there is no reciprocity, and where there is only anger and resentment. I suppose that I still believe there is something more buried beneath. I do know that I will never forgive myself or be able to move on if I don't keep trying until things are either back on track or I can't take it anymore...

I will not push H to go to counseling anymore. The truth is that I probably could "make it happen", but it would be counterproductive at this point. I may talk to someone else in person, but I am going to wait and see what happens with the living sitch first as that impacts our finances.

I really do appreciate your concern Daisy. It's very kind of you, and I'll never take offense...:)

ITH

[Separated]

ITH ~ I am so sorry that this weekend turned around so dramatically. I do believe that you have received some great advice from here. Jen Jam had a remarkable post I do believe that you should follow some of her advice. Try the LRT and do not make yourself so available to him.

It is normal for you to get upset after having someone say such things. I do agree that at times he is very insensitive to your feelings and the way that he does talk to you even if he is not raising his voice while saying it. I do not understand why he would joke about you crying, that does sound very harsh.

Are you going to IC at all. You might want to look into this and make sure that you are ok through all of this. You are so concerned with how this affects your H but I believe that you need to focus more on yourself right now and realize that although H keeps saying that the only thing making him depressed in the M is a load of crap and he has issues with himself right now.

You seem like such a great person and I do not want to hear about you being hurt so much and blaming yourself for it. Call me crazy but chatting so personally with you and a few others here I actaully consider you guys my 'friends' and hate to hear about a friend in so much pain.

[istherehope]

Hi Sep,

Thanks for this. I sent you a message on FB that might help explain a few things...

I am doing better now, not wildly happy better, but calmer. I've taken 2 days off of work, and am going to try to recharge during this time.

I'm really not blaming myself anymore for anything other than Saturday night, because I did behave badly then. I am not sure what the next few weeks are going to look like, but at least for these next couple of days, I am going dark on H. I will not ignore him if he calls or texts, but I am staying invisible on IM, and am not going to send any emails unless an emergency comes up. I'm not doing this to be vengeful or anything, but I just think that a couple of days of more space will be a good thing.

I am not going to IC now. I will consider it depending on how I feel over the next 6 weeks, but right now I actually think I might be feeling enough at peace that I won't need it. I think I just need to focus on more outward things, like my job and exercise again for the moment.

ITH

[Separated]

It is good that you are feeling better and withdrawing more for the moment as I believe it will do you a world of good.

Do not be so harsh on yourself about Sat night as that is only human reaction to feel that way and act out in that manner when you are badly hurt. When you are hit with a bomb it is very hard to maintain composure and remember DB/R techniques when your mind is literally blown away.

I do believe that you did redeem youself afterwards with the validation of him moving out and the situation. Like you said over in FB, if you just let him work through this and realize what it is to be without you for abit with minimal contact I am sure that he will come around. Keep postive ITH!!!! I will keep reminding you about keeping positive through all of this!!

I hope you get the relaxation and clarity that you need these few days that you have off.

[daisy282]

Hey ITH

I'm glad you are feeling better. I think going dark for a few days will be the best thing for you right now. You need some time and space to regroup.

I still think the IC would help you a lot, I know my sessions help me a lot and I am learning a ton! Maybe something to look into. I only go 2 times a month, once every two weeks basically, but it is amazing what an hour can do for your mental health and PMA.

The only thing I wanted to ask was from my previous post, what would you consider verbal abuse? What would you H have to do to cross the line? You don't have to post the answer here if you do not want to but I think it is important to have the boundary firmly planted in your own mind.

Get some good rest, veg out, relax, and have a good day!

[istherehope]

Hi Daisy,

Oh in terms of what I would consider verbal abuse, I guess being called names (and I don't consider the nicknames this as we both do/have always done it), being insulted, being sworn at, being yelled at on a regular basis etc.

I don't like the things that he says now at all, don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone appreciates hearing that their H can't love them, but looking at most of the MLC threads, I think that the things I'm hearing now are what many others have heard.

Anyway thanks for checking in on me :). I hope that I will keep feeling more positive...

ITH

[AliSuddenly]

Hi ITH,

Any IMs/messages from H since he has been gone?

Wonder how this saturn-uranus stuff will play out? Looking forward to reading Priya Kale tommorow... seems Kalaaron likes reading her too! I feel better today, how about you?

Al x