Quote: Trying to figure out what I can do to set the see saw on a more even side
Sometimes, it takes totally stepping off the see-saw a time or two, and letting gravity take effect by making them fall hard on their backsides! Be thinking about some even just small things you could do to totally drop the rope in a few areas, that wouldn't have devasting effects on you. Areas where you might be "over-achieving" in, that you could hand off to him. Even if YOU could do things "better"!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: What were you both doing at the time? Pre-MLC the car drives worked because althou we were mad at each other for the conflict & both of us resented the car drives - him for being taken for the ride & me for feeling forced to make the drive - we did evetnually get to the point where the discussion was opened up & we began to work on resolving the problems that needed to be addressed by establishing what the true problem was & then how to deal with it in some sort of fashion
I'm curious as to whether part of this working might be because you changed the "where".
If you find yourself having the same arguments, at the same time, in the same place, and getting the same results, it could be that changing any one or more of those things could help you to get different results.
Give this some thought, and see if you can find some more times and/or places when your conflicts have gone better.
Take into account, also, when you know the absolute WORST times and places are, to give you some "more of what doesn't work" clues, so you can avoid them!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: Trying to figure out what I can do to set the see saw on a more even side
Sometimes, it takes totally stepping off the see-saw a time or two, and letting gravity take effect by making them fall hard on their backsides! Be thinking about some even just small things you could do to totally drop the rope in a few areas, that wouldn't have devasting effects on you.
The cycle that we are in right now has partly to do with me basically doing that - the sporty car which I've been driving is in need of some repairs & got a broken window from the "property manager"
who's mad at the fact that I'm sort of winning in the eviction procees as I've had inspectors out to the house & they (17 of them) all wrote her up so now she's got to do things the more expensive legal way -
anyway I refuse to drive the sporty car whith the broken window & the other minor things wrong with it - so it's parked in a private garage until hubby comes up with the money to get it repaired by a professional mechanic & we have to share use of the wagon which he drives -
share use means that he gets dropped off & picked up at work & if he wants to go out drinking then bascially he'll have to take me with him or he'll have to have his friends come & pick him up from his mothers house
as I will not be without a car simply because he wants to have fun & run the risk that he'll get into an accident with the only working car that we have the night that we put the sproty car into the garage such an accident happened but luckily he only got a flat tire & he wasn't drinking yet but did have plans to go out drinking after his DWI class which is where he was headed when he had the accident
or that while he's out drinking with his friends I need to get to my grandmother who lives a few towns away & has had congested heart failure
or my grandson who has been left at daycare by his father not picking him up
right now he's upset that althou he's escalated the fight twice I've not backed down on this car issue & he's got to face being with out the car since he doesn't want me to be a part of the "fun" in his life
from what I can see MLC = "u can't have fun with wife since she's the reason everythings bad in life"
when he escalated by saying that his friends don't like me at the end of the 1st week & I actually pressed the issue over the fact that none have a reason not to like me except that I stop the bar tab & if there truely was nothing going on bewteen him & robin then theres no reason that he can't bring me back to her house just like we use to do all the time before he left...
anyway he's been on & off friendly to me since the initial arguement which was started on Jan 6 2004 at 5:45p three times we've made love - I think that the love making is part of the reconciliation process with him - as after each of our escaltion fights a few days later when things are calmer we'll make love - sometimes he initiates sometimes I do but we do seem to get back to the point where we can at least make love even if the sitch isn't resolved at least a truce is called
he chose to escalate a 2nd time when last week tuesday after the eye doc appt he was planning to drop me off
& then he was going to go to his DWI class & out with his friends after class except that I had made plans to visit a friend of mine who lives in the town by the class
he got really upset about that as I was screwing up his plans for the night he'd not mentioned his plans to me - he knew it would've been the fight that we ended up having anyway I simply stated that while he was in class I was going to visit my friend & he blew up
I wouldn't budge on it & since he complained about the gas I simply stated that I'd just go the Dunkin Donuts down the street & we (she & I) could meet there if she can get away that made him blow up even more as I explained that going to meet at a donut shop was no differant than meeting at a bar only thing differant was that we'd be drinking coffee instead of beer
he was mad that class went full length 7:30p intead of just 7p as it had done before the holidays so I got there & had to wait in the lobby for him I did over hear the class video saying something about alcoholism & when I looked into the class when I 1st got there I could see him in the back looking angry & arms crossed
after the class was over he started again with the yelling I tried to keep calm & just made the statement that where did he plan to go? we could go now, of course he said no where then started complaining that I had both cars
I saw it was pointless to continue to argue & when he yelled to take him to his moms I didn't argue about it at all & when I was going to get out of the car he yelled at me to go home he wanted some time away from me I decided to give him the time & space he was asking for
he didn't want to be reasonable & I really didn't want to deal with him as I knew I'd be losing it in a short while
the rest of the week I've been picking him up & dropping him off I don't think that he got mad about the sitch again until saturday nite
I was late picking him up & son forgot to call to let him know that I was on my way he wasn't too mad when I picked him up he came into our apartment no problem to work on the puter problem I'd told him about he said NO to making love, which would mean staying the nite in his head & he said that he had a headache he looked tired so I let it go I was very disappointed but managed to hold back the tears
but when I was going to drop him off at his moms house... because I'd already spoken with a girlfriend of mine that if he decided not to stay over that we'd go out for a quick drink, I gave her a call in the car on the way to his moms... I think at that point it hit him that I was going to be out having fun in the car while he was going to be at his moms house with no car & no cellphone either
he said something smarta$$ when I asked him for a light & I realised that he had my lighter, & commented on it I simply ignored his comment & started singing along with Stevie Wonder's "part time lover"...
when we got to his moms I said see you tomorrow, he took the dirty clothes & sheets out of the car & i pulled off
I didn't call him sunday or monday Sunday his mom called... asking about the 2 cars so I know that he must've complained that I've got both cars - I set her staright about the fact the other one is still not fixed
she also started to make comments about the fact that I was bringing daughter to work on sunday so I pointed out there's no bus to her job sundays
I actually got mad with her but bit my tongue if she's not going to help with the sitch then she needs to never mind whats going on over here I'm helping my kids who are just starting to be adults & need help just like she's "helping" her son to run away from his responsibilites
personally who's the better mother - me who tries to keep the kids out of the house & face life or her who keeps trying to baby her "poor boy"? but that's just me being angry right now
MIL asked about my settlement money & I knew that she was thinking I should be using that to fix the car I told her the money is in trust the only thing that can be used for is retirement to care for me Or to buy a house hubby blew his settlement money drinking with his new friends he's not going to waste the money thats suppose to be caring for me because he's being irrsponsible & blowing the money drinking
I've not heard from either hubby all weekend &/or MIL hasn't called back since our chat sunday afternoon her not calling back was abit of a surprise but actually great for me she can be a bit stressful since she's unwilling to accept that hubby has problems physically due to the sarcoid & the diagnosis of dibetes that he's refusing to treat either one wth the meds he's suppose to be taking nor is she willing to address his drinking & is enabling him to do this
I'm trying to detach, I'm trying to get a life to keep me busy but it's a hard struggle for me when I've got no income of my own
I'm spending time here on the board & trying to rebuild my life on the internet since the puter lost all info in it after the reformatting of the harddrive
I'm trying to stay away from the stores so that I don't spend money that I really don't have to spend
I'm also trying to work on the 7 Habbits work that I have to do to figure out exactly what is it that is my Burning YES but it's a bit hard to focus when I'm sick of where I am both physically & emotionally in my life
I know that I've got to figure out an income for myself since hubby won't let me get back into real estate I know that if I had my own income I'd not be so depressed when he left to his moms when we were 1st married it was easier for me to handle I was working too much to be so depressed as I've gotten this time I was able to move on my own with out any input from him I had my own income & didn't need him to sign the lease I got the apartment on my own merits & income I had what I needed to spend on what I wanted this time is so opposite from that & it frustrates me
I told him that I think that his not giving me the money I need for the real estate license makes me feel this is partly about him controling me & that as much as he maybe complaining to robin that i'm draining him
he's doing his best to make sure that I've got no way to earn an income of my own & no way that I'd be able to get away from him & so that I'll be unattractive to any other man - I mean really who wants a woman that can't work a job? even if she does look good & can & likes to cook? I'm good looking but I'm no model or trophy wife realistically speaking
Areas where you might be "over-achieving" in, that you could hand off to him. Unfortunately with him at his moms house the only chores that I can hand off to him are the bills & that is more of the same - he's been doing that since yr 2 when i decided that I didn't want to argue with him about the bills anymore even thou I could do it better than him
Right now the washing of the clothes is a non-priority item but it is a chore that I've passed on to him if he's unwilling to get the washer repaired or buy one that I can use (side opening) he's got to do it
Even if YOU could do things "better"!
thanks for taking the time to read my postings here sorry if they're a bit long, I'm just so full of confusion that I'm trying to pour out everything to make sure that I've got it all out here hopefully then I'll have it all out of my system so that when I see hubby I'll be able to be calm
son did point out to me that althou sometimes even when I don't mean to at this point in time it's visible that I'm feeling disgusted with hubby & his behavior so I've got to clear the air before dealing with him son sometimes is wise beyond his years & other times he's driving me nuts - typical teen I guess
"In healthy marriages, spouses have the same definition of what it means to be loving my answer would be false - but i'm thinking that hubby maybe thinking yes
From your point of view, why is this illusion wrong? how a person is rased will help determine whether they are loving outwardly - huggy people come from huggy families - while if there aren't hugs given but praises verbally given then a person is likely to be more needing to hear praises than giving of gifts to show love
How would YOU define "loving"? I feel loved in many ways, but I do think that I am 1st a feeling person & then hearing second - I'm still a bit confused reading the 5 love languages as to exactly what hubby's language is - my perspective of loving is being there for your spouse thru thick & thin, helping where ever & when ever possible, being willing to compromise, being willing to work things out, doing things together,
What would this mean to you? I feel loved when hubby shows "ownership" of me introducing me proudly to his bosses & friends, I feel loved when hubby gives me huggies, pats on the rump when he's on his way out the door hubby gave us pet names when we got married, & althou some think it's terrible we've always liked them - he calls the kids "the boy" & "the girl" & me "woman" - using the tone of voice that Homer Simpson has as we use to watch it together & son did seem to be into some sort of mischeif all the time hubby use to bring home little gifts, icecream, little trinkets when he ordered stuff online & take us out to the video store to pick up a bunch of movies as a family
What things has your partner done in the past that made you really feel loved? althou it caused arguements he bought me as surprises: 1) a pda but it was the wrong type of OS & he had to return it which made me feel bad - i'd sent him a picture of what i needed & was the cheaper version which i knew we could better afford so it did frustrate me a bit, 2) he came home announcing that he'd bought a dryer that was going to be delivered the next day - the apartment we live in can't handle the load of an electric dryer, doesn't have an outlet for an electric dryer, & for him to think about upgrading the eletrical in this apartment to put in the dryer was totally a waste of money
again he set me up for me to reject his loving gift, but it was something which shouldn't have been an arguement, he should've said oh i didn't realise that it would be so much to put in the dryer & just brought it back, instead it was a 2 day arguement
the next week or two later he did much better & I'm proud to say that with the money from the dryer he bought a portable dish washer which I've bragged about from the time that he brought it home & still today am bragging that he brought it for me (this was only 2 months before he walked out to go to his moms - doesn't sound like he was planning to leave if he just brought in the appliance)
he surprised me with tickets to go see Tim McGraw in concert & they were VIP tickets so we had good seats plus we got food & drinks in the VIP Lounge althou country music isn't my 1st choice i enjoyed myself & at the last portion of the show we were the only ones in the VIP Lounge & we danced & he sang to me "Don't take the Girl" & said that's how he felt about me I felt as if the whole concert was being put on Special just for me by Hubby
How do you think your partner would define "loving"? In Dec 2002 he told me that he doesn't feel love for me - I asked him what does he think love is? & he gave the definiation that is the head over heels like when we 1st met & didn't want to be apart - apparently he's never had explained to him that the romantic passion type of thing is suppose to end from what he said he's looking for that kind of feeling again - the fact that he had it for so long is a puzzle to me as that type of love had in fact passed long ago & early in our marriage for me
These next 3 questions I'll have to come & answer later I've got to go bring daughtr to work & figure out what my mother in laws trying to figure out & why from the questions that she was asking me a few moments ago
Part 2 answered 1/24-5/04
What would it mean to them? I tried to read the 5 love languages & it's got me really confused as to pinning down what hubby's love languages are... I know that sex is kinda high on his list at this point in life... but that was something recent with his MLC before that I was the one with the higher sex drive & I suspect that for all of his "complaining" that I still am the HSD
althou he doesn't say anything, i do think he does appreciate the meals that i send for his lunch I do remember 1 time that i was angry with him & didn't send 1 & he seemed hurt by that
i've been running thru my head whether to simply ask him, but after him saying thursday that he's not coming home when i move & him seeming to relax when i pointed out that i've not been pressuring him to come home since dec 2002,
i think that i'll just have to keep on guessing if i ask him at this point he may feel that it's pressure to work on the marriage he's not ready to "officially" work it out yet
What things have you done in the past that you think made them feel really loved? small gifts & surprises?
our 5th annaversary i had a really nice evening set up & when he went out to the car he was surprised to see a picnic basket filled with presents & little handmade cards
u know he's still got the birthday card that i gave him last year in the car door - it's on the passenger side, but he has cleaned out the car & hasn't tossed it so it must mean something to him
i think he feels good & loved when he hears me brag about something that he's gotten for me or done for me - i really made over the fake fur vest that he brought for me 2 weeks ago & he seemed pleased but I can't tell for certain as it didn't last long, MLC jeckle & hyde change up i think 2 days later
Things that have gotten positive responses from them? things keep changing daily so it's hard to keep track of I've got to get back to my solutions journalling with his being here I've not done much in it been keeping track of stuff here when i've been able to
before the reduction in cars
i sent him a few silly sexy emails - those did spark interest & was fun for both of us
before that i was getting some responses for requsets for things to be done via picture emails
i do think that he does appreciate my sense of humor
i know that thursday he calmed down when i reassured him that i wasn't pressuring him to come home it really hurt & it was hard fighting back tears but i do know that it made him open to what i was saying & even thou it wasn't what i wanted to hear from him he did at least make a babystep forward by verbally commiting to get the mortgage so we can buy a 3 family house before april give me the safe 3 family house to move to we can stay in this holding pattern for a while longer & there's time later to work on the marriage
someone kick me i'm behind schedule getting step 1 all finished by the end of 2 weeks
thanks for any input suggestions or 2x4's that i need to refocus & get this DB thing straight djembequeen
"People Just Fall Out of Love". I say False Hubby would say TRUE
How do you feel about love being a choice, a decision, and not a feeling? Love is a choice is True is my opinion on this - it is a decision to work things out or to walk away, it is a decission to do what is right, it is a decission to care for your sick spouse, it is a decission to cheat on your spouse, it is a decission whether to spend the money correctly & be happy about it or to waste the money because you want to show off for friends or family "keeping up with the Jones' Syndrome" all decissions are a choice it is a choice to listen & learn or to blindly run away
In what ways have you, and your partner, might have let your love dwindle, and not made your love for each other a priority? I actually in 20/20 hindsight see where there's been alot of miscommunication going on between my husband & myself
1)while I'm in a class I try to make sure that the money paid for the class is put to the best use & make sure that I only have to take the class 1 time so I really focus on the lessons & to give him free time with the tv I'd go into the livingroom & sometimes fall asleep on the futon & he took that to mean neglecting & not wanting him rather than the fact that I was trying to let him have peace & quiet & lights out while I studied
2)he took my distaste for Porno to mean that I wouldn't be willing to try new things, I take his porno watching on the internet as cheating on me, I've been angry for years over the lack of creativity from him & I'd resigned myself to a boring marriage in the sex dept somewhere along the way we really got those signals mixed up & at this point he's aware that he really doesn't know his wife as a truely sexual being & I'm still aggravated as we'd touched on something that needs to be further looked into & he's shut up like a clam, so I'm still stuck lacking in the sex dept
3) He's made drinking & hangging with his "new trashy friends" a priority 4)my focus is getting out of the slum that we've been stuck in since 1997
5)We've had several arguements when I was in real estate over the needs which I had for the computer he wouldn't listen to me but would listen to his friend who althou a nice guy who can build a good home use computer hasn't the slightest idea of what I needed for the biz needs computer
How do you feel about Michele's statement of
"If your spouse reports falling out of love, just say nothing and remind yourself that nothing is permanent. If s/he fell out of love, s/he can fall into love again"? Althou NON-DBing people don't understand this - This is my mantra & I do beleive that statement is true Simply the fact that 1.5 into the MLC/runaway to mommy's house that hubby & I are still having sex on a regular (althou not not what I want as far as frequency)
& he's still trying to deny the OWhore
he's only just this past week come out of his mouth "with the I'm not coming home" - it's been along time since he's said that I think the reason for the statement is he may be feeling pressure from his parents or even in his own mind is conflicted as he does know that I've not pressured him to come home since dec 2002
What do you think about NOT talking to him/her about your "feelings" of love for each other? Althou it does go against my nature I do understand the logic as to the statement & I'm doing pretty good about keeping quiet here
About not putting any pressure on them to talk about it? It's hard but I've been doing just that I do wish that I could get him to read here or at least watch the marriage breakthrough videos It gets to be so discouraging that the skills needed to learn are right there & I'm unable to get him to use the tools I see the couple on the video & it's me & him it hurts that he's not willing to work on the marriage butwith him in MLC all I can do is wait it out
What do you think are some of the differences between "being in love" with a person, and "loving" a person? I guess this is like the statement "love the person not the act" I love my kids but they've got to move on with their lives regardless of how much they act up & piss me off they know that in the event they need help they can call me
regardless of what hubby's done he knows that I'm going to be there to go to the docs with him he knows that if he needs care after surgery he knows that I'm going to be there to give it
loving a person means that you can & do look past the hurts you do what needs to be done to support them you care about the other persons needs & sometimes that means putting your own needs 2nd while "being in love" with a person means that you don't even see the hurtful things you have on blinders & see no problems because you're so "in love" that all you see is perfection
The question is how do you let go when it appears that hubby is doing his best to make sure that I'm dependant upon him?
I'm trying to figure this out... If he really didn't have it in his head at all to come home why would he withhold what I need to get out on my own If he really didn't want me around why didn't he call last week monday night to say "tuesday I've got off so you don't need to come in the morning" there's also the possibility that this tuesday is the same yet so far no phone call has come forth saying not to come?
My son says that I should call & ask him my "grayness" I'm not calling it's on him to tell me of schedule changes if he doesn't call I'm not wasting the gas leaving & returning
I'm confused but that's the case with the MLC I guess it's another twist & turn week
Quote: How SURE are you about things that are going to happen?
I feel that I am usually very sure about things that are going to happen. Much of it is a gut reaction. That when I don't listen to it I end up getting burned. But right now I am not sure of anything at all
Quote: How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?
I rely on the past a lot. The concept of he who forgets the past is destined to repeat it. But I think it's about putting the past behind me and dealing with the present and the possible future.
Quote: How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view?
If it was someone from here I would probably see it as hopeful. And that there was things that could turn the situation around and bring my STBX and I closer together.
Quote: What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?
Well depending on who I was, I might see it as hopeless and that I just have to move on and forget about her. But then again, if I think there is hope who am I to give up!?!
Quote: If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?!
Back off of her, which I do. And give her time. Remove the reason for her to be angry and the anger will go away. Though she seems more angry at herself and taking it out on me. But might be MY perspective.
Quote: If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?
WOW! Things would look so promising. I can see where our negative pasts get in the way. Things are always the same they can never change type mentality. But I KNOW that things can and often DO change.
Quote: If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?
Hmmm maybe my STBX is just scared, and angry with herself for allowing things to get this way but not knowing how to do anything differently. And that anger is being projected as payback to make her feel better. But more out of confusion than anything else.
Quote: What areas of your relationship might it be helpful to "take off your blinders", and see things from a different perspective?
I'm not really sure on this one. I do always try and look at things from multiple perspectives. Which is why I am driving myself crazy with THIS situation right now. Trying to analyze the intel. Gotta stop doing that and take things more for what they are.
Quote: What does that dot that the teacher drew on the blackboard represent to you?!
It represents to me that no matter what is all around us that is clean and good we only notice the one thing that doesnt belong or is out of place. The bad things.
Quote: What would your answer be to the "miracle question"? Your answer to how things COULD be, instead of the way that they are?
We would have a loving affectionate relationship. In the way we communicate with one another. The time we spend with one another. More tenderness in our speech, physical contact, and our actions.
Quote: If you were to start things over from scratch, with a clean slate, what would your relationship be like? What would YOU be doing to help lead it into the right direction?
There would be mutual respect. More loving jestures. Lots of talking. Major desire to spend time with and see that person a lot more. More caring about their feelings and not wanting to hurt them. I would not be bringing up the past with statements like ALWAYS, NEVER... and find a way to let it go. Act as if nothing ever happened between us before. It's all new. I sure wish I had this info 3 years ago when I REALLY started feeling that things were going off track.
My P seems to really need time to figure out who she is in life...to be dependent on herself for once. It's hard for me but isn't it healthy to let her have time to figure those things out for herself? Perhaps, we commited to each before she was truly ready and she just needs to grow up some...can things still be worked on even though she doesn't want to think about me at all right now???
I am using a new username as I was a member years ago. I don't want to get into my story, it had a happy nding though! I only want to say thanks for the great resourse and support I got on this board!!! I was so busy feeling sorry for myself that I had to do so much work to get H to come back. But am glad I did!
Sunday his mom called...
