Ok - After the above posts , i rang H again this morning and apologisd again to him for all the pain. I told him i was working on letting go and that i would not assume to be involved with amything he organised with kids ( he seems to think he has to involve me ). i said that we needed to be friends at some level. He agreed with all that and said it was lovely to hear but as far as us - it was all too late. He sounded so final and cold.
I am tearful and so sad. Can I come back from this. Oh my god this is so awful. I dont want to GAL without him.
Max....we all are here for you, even me if it seems like am I just slapping you around, I'm totally trying to help you.
NOW here's the help this time....this is going to be very hard and sad for you and you need support from an in person counselor.
Also, I can't recall, do you have sisters or could your mother come stay with you for a while? Have you told anyone else what is going on? You need support in person....I'm so sorry we can't be there and take you out for a beer.
Please get support...that is the only thing that you need right this moment. Let the future care for itself for a bit and you care for max for a bit.
Max, you reminded me of myself when I first came on board reaching out for help. At that time I was still in an EA but I had not left my home, but my H had confronted me about it and demanded that I stop immediately. I just stumbled across this sight and read a few post, backed my ears and signed on. People did not make it so easy on me either, but like you, I told them to please tell me more.....that I could take it....I knew I needed to hear everything they said although it was hard. So, you are doing the right thing by sticking it out here and taking the stuff being thrown in your face.
Yes, this is a place to come vent your frustrations and you lonliness, etc. As I have told others.....it might be a good idea to just say in advance that you are down and just need to vent and then you'll be able to get on to the next day or hour or whatever.
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I will not ask, I will snoop around for that.
I think I can understand how terribly hard it would be not to snoop! But, I have been told that once you start.....then it is almost impossible to break yourself from it again. Max, by snooping, you are not only setting yourself up for more heartbreak, but you are putting yourself into that mode of controlling. That is one of the goals you really, really need to work on. I understand controlling! But, he feels like a free man now and he is getting a taste of that freedom and may never want to return to what you were when he left. So, what are you going to do about it? Do you think he will want to come back to a control freak that demands to know everything he does every minute of his time? It is none of your business.....you realize that, don't you? If he is not living with you.....it is none of your darn business if he wants to fly to Vegas and gamble, sleep with hookers, and go to see naked show girls. It is none of your business if he has two plane tickets to take an OW to a remote Island somewhere. Sucks, doesn't it? But, that is the fact of life you must accept b/c honey there isn't one thing you can do about it except become a bigger b*tch than he thinks you already are! And where would that get you except farther down on his Christmas list.
Your first many, many posts from others are going to sound like people are picking on you and that isn't it at all. We are trying to get you to face yourself, your own faults, accept your part of the breakdown in the marriage, forgive him for walking away when he said he wouldn't, and most of all.....to start changing yourself. That is not easy!! If you cannot even remember who or what you were like before M, then you are in bad shape! Maybe you just need to try to wipe you personality slate and temperment slate and controling slate....all clean and start from scratch with a brand new Max. Maybe go to the library and rent a "Charm Course" book. I think they still carry them in stock. Look up the Total Woman by Marabelle Morgan or Fasinating Woman (or Womanhood, can't remember which) and don't remember the author. But if you are kind of the old fashion type, I think you would appreciate these. I could name some more if you think you would be interested. You probably can't buy them any longer. I doubt they are still in print....but might be.
I agree that you are way, way too focused on your H when you need to be focused on Max. Now, everytime you are tempted to call him and do anything to pursue him.....you just remember that it is putting another nail into that marriage coffin. You think you know best.....but you don't! It is your emotions that are dictating to you what to do. You cannot trust your emotions at this point. Don't let them rule, Max, or you will lose all chances of getting your M back on track again.
So, you must detach....detach....detach. That is the first rule. I mean it. If you can't do that....you might as well hand him the D papers and tell him to sign on the dotted line, b/c you will lose him for a fact. So, is it worth it to you to bear the detaching in order to get him in the end?
The next thing is to stop fretting over him not taking up time with your kids. They are big kids and it's not like they can't go to bed at night without talking to him first. Anyway, that is just one of all the things you can't and shouldn't do anything about it. You be the mother to the kids, and let him be a sorry dad or a great dad....but what kind of dad is up to him--and not you. Don't say it is b/c you don't want your kids to be hurt b/c that is just part of it and we both know it. You are focusing on the fact that he is not doing what you want him to do....and being a dutiful parent is one of those things. Besides, we both know (even if you won't admit it) that you are thinking that him spending time with the girls is a "connection" with him that will benifit you. So, that is the second rule.....you cannot control what he does or does not do.
BTW, did I send that list of LBS rules for DBing?
Okay, now you need to start working on your outside improvements while you are reshaping a new and better inside Max. I'm not saying that you have done this at all, but I am saying that I know it is very easy for men and women to get slack about sex appeal to their S after they've been M a while. If this is not your case, then maybe you just need a change. Maybe you look great.....since you had A with OM. I know I looked better when I was in my EA than I had in a long time! The minute I stopped contact, I got very depressed and starting gaining weight, etc. So, I know how hard it is to keep that momentum going. But, now, you know you want a life with your H, so work just as hard at looking good for him as you probably worked at looking good for OM. Wear attractive clothes, change styles.....get your young D's opinion about styles and what looks good and what doesn't. If you haven't done a study on the color groups and what colors look good on different women.....you may find that to be very informative......I sure did. I loved warm fall colors....but to wear them....I look dead. So, I had to learn which colors were for me.
Remember that I know what you are going through with the grieving about OM. Although I didn't get to the PA....I would have if things had not stopped where they were. It took me a long time, Max, but it was b/c I did not want to be here. That makes a difference. You want your M, so you have the incentive! That gives you the fuel energy you need to work hard. But, you must do the right work or it is all down hill and in vain. Don't do the wrong things. Do what the DR book tells you to do. Listen to the people that have been around here on the board for a while. Read other threads. I have seen other threads where the WAW went home and then her H left her and she was the LBS wanting her M back again.
Yes, you feel sorry for yourself, but you sounded so much better when you listed the things you had going for you in your life. I bet it made you feel better also. Try to think on the good things in your life b/c when we focus on the bad....then we get bitter. I know nothing more unattractive than a bitter woman. (And all the men in the house said.....Amen!)
Just remember that old saying grandmothers use to tell us......"Pretty is as pretty does". It is true. When you are pretty from the inside.....it makes you pretty on the outside.
You have a lot of work. But you also have a lot of good supporters right here. I am one of them. I will try to life you up when I can, but I will also give you a whack if I think you need to make a re-adjustment. If I didn't care, I would not do either, so remember that I do care.
Now, have a good weekend and do "something" that will force yourself to get out of that house! If you have to make it from one hour to the next without chasing him......give yourself a gold star! That means you did not backslide for 60 minutes. Then shoot for the next 60 minutes.
BTW, you may have told us and I just have forgotten. What did you do to break it off with the OM? How did you get through the detachment phase with him? It must have been hard, so how did you do it? If it was your H and the fact that you knew he was the one you really wanted, then that was you foundation and motivation right there. So, you are not "feeling" any motivation for this fight and can't see a solid touchable goal in sight in the near future and it scares you to death. So, you are trying to "make" things happen the way you want them to. Am I right or wrong about it? Just curious.
About the "family" trip and the question about sharing bedroom. Absolutely not. He lost that right when he left you. It would show weakness on your part. Don't let your emotions tell you it is for appearance's sake. Beside, don't you think he would see it as pressure on him if you were in the same room with him? He may interperet that as you setting him up. So, fool him by playing "hard to get" and drive him crazy thinking about you being in the next motel room and unavailable to him. And, BTW, so stay unavailable to him during the trip. Don't act married to him b/c you are S from him. Don't put on airs for the sake of how it may look to other people. However, I would sure be like a little social butterfly going around being busy talking to everyone and letting that wonderful new personality shine. Don't give him your attention...other than a sexy smile from time to time.....but don't pursue and don't be rude or impolite......just be charming. Separated and charming to him and to everyone. If people are rude enough to ask personal questions, then tell them that you are not prepared to talk about that right now and it is neither the time or place. If they presist....ask them don't they know it is rude to ask personal questions regarding another person's M.
Think of any thing that might be asked and have an answer ready for them....in advance, so it won't catch you off guard. Think of the worst possible thing that could happen and how you would handle that....so you will be prepared for anything. At all times, keep calm and stay sweet, sexy, and unavailable. You are woman enough to do this.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
MC - My H is like you and he has definitely deteached. Can I get him back from this place. He is like you. Hurt.
Max, he might be like me and detached and hurt. Can you get him back? I don't know if I really know the answer.
The biggest difference in our sitches is that my W is a serial cheater, liar, and fake most times. I really believe that she has a PD. Another difference is that I had my head in the sand, was in denial for so long as to what was going on; that I was fogged in from reality. I wanted to keep my M so bad that I overlooked a lot of stuff. It wasn't until I realized that my fear of losing her was unjustified due to the relief and happiness that I feel now.
But for giggles let's assume that this was her first time cheating and I am hurt by it; because I am. Getting me back at this point is going to take a lot of patience because I'm skeptical about her motives. Does she want back because I'm second choice? Does she have no other option?
If she had cheated with my best friend, who is within our circle of friends I don't know if I could face them all and act normal if I knew that any of them knew. This may be what he's dealing with. If some of them knew, would they pressure me to "be a man" and throw that woman to the curb? I get some of that now, but most know that I'm not willing to do that yet.
Here's another rub, you're trying to DB from your side to win your H back. I'm trying to DB from my side to win back a cheating W. So what I would need from my W might be different from what you need to provide to your H. Confusing, I know. this is stream of consciousness so forgive me.
to answer your question wholly, I need to find out if I'm happier without my W before I could consider going back to her. In all honesty that's where I'm at. I really don't want to throw my M away; but with all the crap I've been through, I need a break. Does your H feel the same way? Maybe. He will need to sift through all of his feelings and make a determination. Make no mistake, he's knows that you are sorry for what you've done. He knows that you want to keep the marriage. he may be entering into a MLC of his own. Once he thinks he's figured it out; you'll know. Patience is the key here. Each time you take his temperature, you muddy his feelings and it extends the time it will take to reach a resolution.
He will need to see a stronger Max and a happier Max. If he sees that you are fine living without him; he may very well start coming back around. Of course, he may well think that you have someone else. If it stirs him to anger, you will at least proven that his feelings are still there. My W can't stir me to anger right now; because I don't care what she does. If she were to come to me like you are and come on strong about it; I would think she is lying still. That the only reason she would want me back is because she can't find what she's looking for out there. If my W comes back and honestly tries, it will be a slow, arduous process to prove by her actions that she wants back.
Time is your ally. Have patience. Get Max a life. Try some new friends. Take that trip.
Max I hope I haven't confused you. I want to help so much. I can feel you screaming through my internet connection. If you need further clarification on my rambling here, just ask.
It was 4 years ago that my A was discovered , which i lied about for the next 3, coming clean in April / May this year.
My mum just met H again for the first time in 8 months today. She said there was something different about him. Could not put her finger on it but said it he looked like he was coming out of a prolonged illness. He has lost lots of weight and started smoking again.
As for friends knowing - No and H said he hopes it stays that way although he is yet to confront OM and OMW with the truth of the A. (OMW does not know full extent)this may mean that the story goes public as OMW reacts.
H knows that OM could not hold a candle to his greatness and I have promised him regardless of what happens to us I, I would not take up with OM. I would not do even for my childrens sake.
H is a stickler for appearances and for doing the right thing. This is what drives him i believe at the moment. Bit of pride, bit of his black and white world. He has little tolerance for those who wrong him and I am afraid I am in that group now.
I know what you are saying about harping on to h about feelings but up until today i have not for weeks and in that time we really have moved further apart. He once said he thought it helped when i was wailing and sorry. So I am torn.
H also says he knows that I would never do it again. He recognised my sincerity in this. Still he wont come back.
He did say that he thought that maybe this was something he had to work through. If i thought at the end there was me . i would support him 110 %
He once said he thought it helped when i was wailing and sorry. So I am torn.
I've been there and have seen my W do that. It felt good to see her in that way because I wanted her to hurt like I had hurt. In the end though, it didn't help save my M or change my feelings about her. We didn't do the REAL WORK to get past it. I never forgave her. I said that I did; but I never really did. I just became controlling and demanded to know what she was doing, who she was talking to and that was too much for me and her.
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He did say that he thought that maybe this was something he had to work through. If i thought at the end there was me . i would support him 110 %
This where you have to trust what he says; validate his feelings because it's true. Act "as if" you will have him in the end and then support him 110%. This is what you have to do if you want him back. Unfortunately, he is in control and you will have to let him lead.
I know your frightened; but he's not there at the moment and you are still breathing. Keep your chin up. You need to get out of your head and detach from the emotions. Your mental health depends on it. Max, I hope you find a counselor soon.
((((max))))
We're all here for you..remember that...even half a world away.
My worst fears realised . H was out with a woman last night and same one tonight. He told me. I cannot put in words the pain. Hr said she is like him, cheating spouse and they share that in common but nothing else.
H said that she ws ugly, flat chested, half drunk, smoker and not someone I should be worried about and you know what i said. I said please ring me when you leave her place tonight. I was in shock.
I came in the house and broke down. Both D were crying and S 20 stormed out of the house to go see H. I tried to stop him , he did not take his phone. He has been gone a long time.
I have since text H to say that i was not sure where my head was at, but i did not want a call from him tonight. I am better than that. That I was not angry. I would not be going to wedding. Bye
I dont know how to get through the next 24 hours. Kids canceled all there plans to stay home with me. S has not yet returned.
I will no longer contact him, I will not snoop. I tried to fix my M. I was sorry, I did everything asked of me. I sold cars, phone s, I told the truth, I stopped contact. I can do nothing more.
I need to know that this pain will stop. I am typing this, to avoid being upset still in front of kids. BF and mum are supporting.
