One thousand posts later...

[theoden]

It actually frightens me to think of acting without conscience, without fear, without consideration of my actions on those I love and for whom I'm responsible. But then, I'm not mentally ill (at least, not most days). I really think of this as a mental illness, because mlc'ers truly seem out of touch with reality. They're delusional for sure. And believe me, they're aware of their power. H wields it like a club at times.

Well, I'm sort of attracted to the fearless-ness, composure and seeming joy my wife demonstrates when she acts without conscience and hurts her family. She's great at "getting a life." She looks like she's flourishing. Let's compare it to my "faithfulness", nice-ness, concern for my children, inability to detach, fear, and people-pleasing. What have I gotten for it? I''l tell you: sleepless nights, anger, bitterness, self-loathing, feeling like a fool and, shall I say, 2.5 years of hell on earth. And I haven't saved my children.

It's the dilemna of the 73rd Psalm, isn't it?

Perhaps it's more like comparing a Ninja to a Samurai. Both are skilled, and both are deadly. One is a rogue, the other follows the Bushido code. One is a mercenary, the other follows a higher call. It seems that a MLC and and affair almost instantly creates Ninja like skills in the WAS. It's uncanny. It's like they take a pill and become Ninjas overnight. Not so with the LBS. The path to becoming a Samurai is long and hard-won. We have to recover from the near-moral wounds inflicted on us in a suprise attack, which was really and unexptected act of betrayal. We don't have the agility, strength and stamina yet to stand up to the Ninja. And even as we develop our strength, the Ninja, to some extent, doesn't play by the rules. They are willing to sacrifice their own children.

I want to become a Samurai. I so desperately want to emerge from this stronger and braver.

--Theoden

[BeingMe]

Which is where detaching comes in, but with kindness, unlike the MLC spouse. It's for your own sanity.

[Forrest Gump]

Hey Mamma,

Sorry I am slow getting back to you And I hope I don't distract what you guys are talking about. It is still weird posting in other places to me.. always feel like I am intruding.

Anyway...

"I didn't want to keep hijacking cookie's thread!"

I doubt she minded. It kinda went with what they were.. and still are kinda talking about.

"on checking back and getting burned--yes, the fire was hot. Yes, it seemed a few degrees hotter each time, so I suppose I exposed myself for less time and pulled back inside a little quicker and a little further over time.

From my experience (even though it is not documented here)a huge factor into the things we do as LBS.. is get the timing wrong. Now my S was not suffering from a MLC.. just a WAW. Now MLC Spouse's typically mimic some of the WAS "issues".. So some of this may apply. Sometimes the "testing" we do has the effect of raising the "fire". When we "see" the fire get bigger.. the logical and smart thing to do is to back down. Depending on the situation.. I would likely tell you to back down. There are times though when I would say "push on". Even if the fire is hot. You have to know when to push.. and when to back down. I have seen people back down too much. Again.. timing. When you find yourself in "this" situation you really need to be able to think and react.. with the right timing. I am big on being prepared for whats coming.. being rested.. being ready.

"on making the departure as painful as possible--he dropped the bomb 3 days after I found out my job was going to be ending, 3 days before our anniversary, 4 days before my birthday. Could be coincidence, but I think at least part of it was timed to do the most damage."

I would surely disagree. For my birthday last year.. I was having my W followed. And she spent the night at the "man in questions" house. She came home at 9ish the next morning. The kicker was.. she stayed there because she was too drunk to drive.. and "the man in question" was paranoid they were being followed. By a cop. Think about what most PI's drive.

I don't believe people wake up.. with the intention to hurt you. They just tend to make crappy choices at crappy times. That .. when you really look at it.. is the logical time to make crappy choices.

I have been the victim of crappy choices.. at crappy times.. more than I care to count.

Have you?

"And since that point I've just been breathing."

The word to define in that would be "breathing".

It takes on lots of different meanings.

The question in my mind becomes.. can he see you "breathing".

Does your breathing look out of time.

Does your breathing seem full of hope.

Does you breathing make him wonder.. why is it so consistent.

"The outcome will be the same regardless of what I do, so I'm just trying to avoid further damage to D and I. Never really had a chance to DB."

The outcome may be the same regardless of what you do.. I agree. Most people here (DB.com) are gonna fail. When you throw kids into this.. it get really hard to "help" someone. All I can say is save you.. and that heart of yours first. The other stuff will fall into place.

You have the heart.. I am pretty sure.. I made a post about that.

Sometimes.. you have to work at this stuff.. from the back side.

You do that by making a solid foundation of you.. to push off of.

There are all kinds of cool "quotes" around here (DB.com).. mine is the coolest.. the reason is.. I said it.. yet someone else defined it.

Sometimes.. it takes "someone" with a different take on things.. to help us out. Show us something new.

Make sure that the person showing up.. in front of H.. is you. Not the old you.. but who you are. In doing just that.. sometimes you win.

I will guarantee.. it won't happen when you expect it to.

[hoosiermama]

It actually frightens me to think of acting without conscience, without fear, without consideration of my actions on those I love and for whom I'm responsible. But then, I'm not mentally ill (at least, not most days). I really think of this as a mental illness, because mlc'ers truly seem out of touch with reality. They're delusional for sure. And believe me, they're aware of their power. H wields it like a club at times.

Well, I'm sort of attracted to the fearless-ness, composure and seeming joy my wife demonstrates when she acts without conscience and hurts her family. She's great at "getting a life." She looks like she's flourishing. Let's compare it to my "faithfulness", nice-ness, concern for my children, inability to detach, fear, and people-pleasing. What have I gotten for it? I''l tell you: sleepless nights, anger, bitterness, self-loathing, feeling like a fool and, shall I say, 2.5 years of hell on earth. And I haven't saved my children.

It's the dilemna of the 73rd Psalm, isn't it?

Perhaps it's more like comparing a Ninja to a Samurai. Both are skilled, and both are deadly. One is a rogue, the other follows the Bushido code. One is a mercenary, the other follows a higher call. It seems that a MLC and and affair almost instantly creates Ninja like skills in the WAS. It's uncanny. It's like they take a pill and become Ninjas overnight. Not so with the LBS. The path to becoming a Samurai is long and hard-won. We have to recover from the near-moral wounds inflicted on us in a suprise attack, which was really and unexptected act of betrayal. We don't have the agility, strength and stamina yet to stand up to the Ninja. And even as we develop our strength, the Ninja, to some extent, doesn't play by the rules. They are willing to sacrifice their own children.

I want to become a Samurai. I so desperately want to emerge from this stronger and braver.

--Theoden

Hi, Theo.

Yes, self-confidence, joy, enthusiasm are always more attractive than pain, agony and self-doubt--which makes all of this a frustrating endless cycle. We're left being the adult, the parent, the one left taking care of all the non-fun aspects of family life like paying bills and making sure things get done. Putting one foot in front of the other at times being the best we can do. Meanwhile our mlc spouses are out having a dandy time reclaiming their youth. About the time we move on and find some joy without them, they may think about coming back to that person who's no longer an empty shell. Maybe. Who knows.

Seventy-third psalm indeed. The prosperity of the wicked. Foolish are we, and ignorant, like beasts before God, while the wicked grow fat. I don't know about you, but I long to see the destruction of those who go whoring away from us. And those they hang with.

I didn't know you before, but I'm sure you're already stronger and braver. If you weren't you'd be stark raving mad. No need for self-loathing, tho--you've stayed the course. A lesser man would have snapped under the strain.

[theoden]

Seventy-third psalm indeed. The prosperity of the wicked. Foolish are we, and ignorant, like beasts before God, while the wicked grow fat. I don't know about you, but I long to see the destruction of those who go whoring away from us. And those they hang with.

I like your honesty. I often feel the same way. I like that Holy Scripture has poems that start with, "It isn't f*cking fair!" There are other Scriptures that encourage us in different directions, like Hosea. However, right now I'm living in Psalm 73. And, I think, it's legitimate to pray it with certain people in mind, and trust God with the outcome. Actually, he's already told us the outcome. It's actually a promise. Go figure, the Lord God Almighty actually knows where we live.

I didn't know you before, but I'm sure you're already stronger and braver. If you weren't you'd be stark raving mad. No need for self-loathing, tho--you've stayed the course. A lesser man would have snapped under the strain

.

Thanks for the good words, friend. I need to hear them.

--Theoden

[hoosiermama]

Seventy-third psalm indeed. The prosperity of the wicked. Foolish are we, and ignorant, like beasts before God, while the wicked grow fat. I don't know about you, but I long to see the destruction of those who go whoring away from us. And those they hang with.

I like your honesty. I often feel the same way. I like that Holy Scripture has poems that start with, "It isn't f*cking fair!" There are other Scriptures that encourage us in different directions, like Hosea. However, right now I'm living in Psalm 73. And, I think, it's legitimate to pray it with certain people in mind, and trust God with the outcome. Actually, he's already told us the outcome. It's actually a promise. Go figure, the Lord God Almighty actually knows where we live.

I didn't know you before, but I'm sure you're already stronger and braver. If you weren't you'd be stark raving mad. No need for self-loathing, tho--you've stayed the course. A lesser man would have snapped under the strain

.

Thanks for the good words, friend. I need to hear them.

--Theoden

Yep, gotta love the psalms. The whole range of emotions, in the extreme. Yeah, we know the outcome. But d*mn, it's too far away! I want this over NOW!

Good words? We all need them, especially in the midst of all of this. The vast majority of folks whose threads I read are lovely people with some good self-insight who are heroic way beyond expectation. But no one really sees it, and so often we're faced with frustration and pain. The truth is, most of our spouses don't deserve us, and we don't deserve the pain. But there it is. You're a good man, theo.

[hoosiermama]

Hi, Forrest--

I've given what you said a lot of thought.

On timing--Yes, timing was bad. Really bad. And I didn't try hard enough, long enough. I let the resentment overtake me. I became exhausted, I didn't take care of myself, I felt there was nothing of Me left. We never both wanted to work at the same time, at least not for awhile.

I still disagree with you on the maximum damage thing. While H has no insight into himself, because of his work he knows a lot about other people. At work, he uses that knowledge compassionately. At home, not so much. I think we have to just agree to disagree on this point, FG. The point is, why did he have such a need to hurt me? I'm sure he must have been in pain. I don't think he plotted it out, but I think that at some level, he knew. I'm not excusing it by any means, just trying to understand it.

On breathing--I just meant, breathing; putting one foot in front of the other. Doing what needs to be done. Not thinking, not feeling, trying to remain functional and using all my energy to do that. Once I dropped the rope, which was painful, I realized I don't have much influence over him at all right now. That is very clear. I really only exist as an inconvenience to him. So I really did not do anything for reaction/response, I did it/am doing it for survival through this. I no longer have hope for the marriage, I'm trying to develop hope for me and the rest of my life which now looks far different from before. And I'll get there. I'm mostly detached, still get twinges from time to time, but they don't take my breath away like they once did. I try to minimize contact, and that works pretty well. Right now we're both being nice, there's a lot of posturing as custody/support is being worked out. But it's not really "friendly," it's posturing. Does he wonder why my breathing is so consistent? I doubt he gives it any thought whatsoever. He's in love, building a new relationship. I'm sure it's passionate, I'm sure there are lots of hormones and love chemicals saturating his brain. He's not going to notice me. And that's fine, because whatever I do now has to be for me and for D. Not to have any outcome or expectation except our own happiness and stability.

Am I finding out who I am? Not really. I'm mostly overwhelmed. I'm 5 1/2 months out, and hopefully this will come. According to my IC I'm doing very well. It doesn't feel that way, but it is reassuring to hear from her. I'm sure I'm "finding myself" and will eventually put it all together. Better and stronger, if past experience is any indication. But geez, enough is enough.

Besides, I'm not worried about being good enough for H. About being new and improved and maybe he'll be interested again. I'm more concerned about H ever being good enough, stable enough to be part of this family again. And it will take some real growing for him to get there.

[hoosiermama]

There are times when all of this seems so surreal. Like it sort of comes as a surprise, after my mind has been occupied elsewhere, that H has left for witchy woman. And my first emotional response to that surprise is--wow! that's just absurd! It's kind of unsettling.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hoozh, I had the same experience. Several times.

[SirPrizeMe]

Ditto! It still seems like the plot of a B movie to me. Unbelievable.