Don't Think I Don't Think About It

[karen43]

Geez. Your W sounds like a car salesman, not that there's anything wrong with that, but shouldn't be doing that to your H!!! Esp. when you're feeling sick! I hope you feel better soon!

Well, I think you should take the time to think about it, wait until you're not sick or whatever. Don't let your W pressure you into it which sounds like she is trying to do. Maybe you could tell her in a firm voice that you are considering the offer, but if she continues to harass you about it then the answer will be a definite no. (We did that with the kids when they were little I have to admit). Karen

[fightingirish]

(((((nc))))

When will the manipulation end with her! your W pi**es me off and i don't even know her.

I would also tell her to back off, and then you will decide when the time is right. yes and i also agree the the market does stink right now, but if taking a bit less to get it over with may be worth your while. It does sound like harassment to me too, what a PITA!!

Im sending you some hugs and prayers, you are being as cordial as you can, but I think maybe your going to let her know'how it is" because she's not getting it.

Hugs to those beautiful boys

[NoCodeBlues]

I had another altercation with W this morning. Again, I just tried to call to talk to my sons before they started school this morning -- but unfortunately I had just missed S7.

That was bad enough, but then W began suggesting I stop by her apartment on the way to S7's cub scout pack meeting this evening to sign her copy of the contract to sell the house -- she didn't even ask if I had made a decision, just assumed she knew the answer already.

I told her, "whatever." I was getting quite a bit testy with her for callous interfering with my conversations with my kids.

She then tried to state something about S7 and I got a little annoyed with her for not getting to speak with S7, and mentioned I didn't get a chance to mention to S7 he needed to be ready for the skit his den is putting on tonight at the pack meeting. W got snippy and said she knew nothing about this and why was I waiting until the last second to talk to her about this. She started once again into her oft-repeated diatribe blaming me for the lack of communication in our marriage and this was "yet another case of the cruel lack of consideration" I have for her in "refusing to communicate" with her "out of spite". She said to me in the most snide, nasty tone, "...and so where has that gotten you, huh? How's that working out for your, huh?"

I'd about had enough of this, and told her, I don't seem to get a word in edgewise. I hadn't all weekend long, in fact. S7 already knows his role in the skit, but I just wanted to remind him to keep it in mind. But I haven't been able to talk to him without him being distracted or interrupted.

W then demanded I explain myself. I started to bite my tongue at that point, telling her she was just not concerned with what she was doing and wouldn't really hear what I had to say.

W again levied her lack-of-communication charge against me, and said that if I couldn't get a word in edgewise, as I claim, that it was not because I couldn't but that I wouldn't speak up. She said, even now I was just wanting to "punish" her by withholding important information from her, but my saying she was not going to hear what I say is just an excuse.

I blew my cool at that point and said, "Okay, you want my candid answer? Here it is..." And then I went on to tell her how all weekend long she has had no concern other than her own self interests, and how she hounded me all weekend about what she wants, while feigning concern for me, my family and our children. I couldn't talk to her or my sons without her changing the subject to her selfish desire to get the outcome she desires.

I had started to give her the full account of how poorly and shamelessly she had behaved this entire weekend, how single-mindedly focused she was on but the one thing, to which nothing else mattered to her, but then she fired back at me before I could fully express to her the wrong she was doing. She said that I was being foolish, that the offer was the best one we would see for a long time, and that neither of us could afford for the current situation to go on like this. She went off on a long spiel again about how I again was being reckless and risking foreclosure, maybe even bankruptcy, by procrastinating on this deal. She sees it as a "blessing" and a "godsend". And then she said I was only thinking of myself and -- get this -- that I was not thinking of our children.

I started to object but couldn't -- surprise, surprise -- get a word in edgewise. She went off on me for a good long while -- seemed like forever -- while I calmly regathered my calm and waited for an opening to counter. It never came. At the end of my tolerance, I even said, "Shut up." But she acted like she didn't hear me.

Finally, I interjected over her continued rant, "You say you wanted me to try to get a word in edgewise, well that is obviously not true. This is not communication. Goodbye!" And then hung up on her.

I had wanted to get across to her that it was not the decision to take the deal or not that I was upset over. The offer may or may not be the best course of action, but that is not what matters -- it was the attitude and the approach she took, the zeal with which she disregarded everyone else for her own personal gain, for her own personal goals. Her blinkered focus on her own interests is abhorrently destructive and has interfered with my life and our sons' lives. I wanted to tell her how badly she has behaved in all this, that she has injured me and injured our sons.

And honestly, I wanted to tell her our marriage and its failure was now the least of my concerns in the scheme of things -- so beating that old dead horse ain't going to get the mileage with me she thinks it will. No, as a mother and as a person, let alone as someone who deems to call themselves a faithful Christian, she has performed badly -- that is what perturbs me. I was so disappointed in her that I now welcome her petition for divorce.

I know that God wants me to hold fast to His ideals of M, Love, Forgiveness and Reconciliation. I know as a follower of Christ I should be more patient and to continue to pray for a positive outcome, and to await the possibility (as remote as it may be) that He can reach her heart and soul. And I should have more faith that God does still work miracles in our lives. But I can't stand to continue to observe this tragic fall in a person I have loved and cared so very much for. She is so like her mother now that I cannot abide this person -- that's not who I fell in love with and married.

But she still sees my continued efforts to maintain a level of congeniality and cooperation as me wanting to reconcile the M entirely, when all I want is to minimize the destruction to our S's.

She can go, for all I now care. I just want to be able to continue with my life and my role as a father with as few encumbrances from her as possible.

[fightingirish]

UNBELIEVABLE!!! She is truly a lost soul. And unfortunately there is no fixing or changing her, she is far far gone.

You need to take any gloves you have on, OFF. You have tried and tried to remain patient with this person, and she continually fights with you over and over again. Its like what you say to her is non-existant. She doesn't care at all about what she is doing and what the consequences are.

I hate to say it, but for you this D can't come any faster.

You don't deserve this treatment and neither does your sons.

Im sorry.

((((nc))) ~ I wish I could give you a real hug.

[LL44]

You would think you were 'on call' for your wife all weekend and today!??? UGH How dare she play all nicey-nice when she wants what she wants!?

The thing is, like you said, this MIGHT be the best thing for all involved, but its her approach, her very selfish approach, that is rubbing you the wrong way. I can understand why.

And for the record, I would be furious if xH was not consistent with our phone calls between the girls, and we even do what YOU try to do (keep them focused on the phone call).

but I could just as easily find an older, cheaper home outside of this pseudo-urban area. A place a little more reasonable and affordable and not quite so taken up with status and materialism. One where my kids can ride their bikes and have a "normal" neighborhood lifestyle.

This sounds like the best option. I guess Selfish LWB wants my nocode in a great, cozy, wonderful home with his sons!!! But I can see why letting this house go might be the best decision now.

Right now, though, that is not in the cards

I wish it was in your cards. You deserve it.

Are you going to persue D a little further, or keep letting her do the work?

I concluded that I must have been a dumb sap who fell for her false words all these years, failing to recognize (at least consciously)when she was not really sincere and only trying to manipulate people to get what she wants.

Have to correct you on this one. Your wife has seriously changed. Shifted. Changed her morals and her life plans. This is not who you married and not who you fell in love with. Don't rewrite history like they do, because you loved each other. She didn't manipulate you in the past, because she wasn't that sort of person then.

[NoCodeBlues]

Thanks, all,

After S7's cub scout meeting tonight, I dropped him off at W's apartment -- and then signed the contract to sell my house. I no longer want to even be friends with this person anymore. She's become everything I don't want in my life. We're taking at least a 15k loss in what we should have gotten for the house if she hadn't been so frakking foolish back in September. I was tempted to tell her that she should take this out of her "cut", but I'm letting it go -- it's not about the money. Right now I'd be willing to part with the 15k just to have her out of my life, with her having no strings attached to me whatsoever. No more presumptions by her that she gets to dictate my life. What I wouldn't pay to remove the stain from my soul, having merged with hers.

I wanted peace between us and cordiality, if not love or respect, for our children's' sake. But I no longer hold out hope even for that, not from her. She has read me the wrong way for so long -- she sees me trying to be business-like and cordial, congenial at times even, trading stories about the boys, and mistakes that for me still holding the rope. I dropped that rope some time ago.

But that misconception in her mind has led her to continue to be extremely hurtful towards me, to say and do things to shore up the divide between us as if it weren't already so great in magnitude.

Have to correct you on this one. Your wife has seriously changed. Shifted. Changed her morals and her life plans. This is not who you married and not who you fell in love with. Don't rewrite history like they do, because you loved each other. She didn't manipulate you in the past, because she wasn't that sort of person then.

It's true. I have been naive and ignorant on a lot of things in my life, but I know we did indeed love each other at one time as much as each of us was capable of. She could not have fooled me that much. I still don't know when she really began to change or if it was sudden or gradual. I go over and over it in my mind, and I just don't know. What I do know is that she has become quite adept at putting on a mask. She does so all too easily now. It's unnerving to me -- I have a hard time dealing with such falseness in people, and I just never expected to see this in her. I thought she was true, and valued that as much as myself.

No, I know I won't have to lift a finger for the divorce to happen. W has most assuredly set her mind on that. I don't believe her for one second when she says she has no intention of ever remarrying again. In fact, I know her enough to know she's gunning to get OM extracted from his own M, and will then proceed to marry the SOB. If she does, then heaven help them both. I won't shed another tear on her ever again after that.

All I know, and I've thought long on this, is that I won't allow that scumbag to have any serious role in my S's lives. I don't respect any home-wrecking slimeball like that, and I don't expect my S's to have any respect for a man who would not only help break up his own family's home, but their family as well. They can't help it if W is their mother, but by gum they don't have to put up with that bastard being foisted on them as some pseudo-father figure either.

Now some of you probably think I am way off base on this point. No doubt, some of you would argue that what might be best in the interests of my S's is to have a peacble situation for them, even if it means the OM gets to be called their "daddy". Screw that! It would be one thing if W and I split, and she were to meet up with some other guy later down the road to get hitched to -- then I would expect my children to show him the due respect and honor as the head of the household. But not that two-timing snake-in-the-grass frakktard. No, this OM is the enemy of their family, the enemy of their parents' M, and the enemy of them. Why should they pay anything more than cold deference to that usurping jerk-wad?

Peace? Yes. Respect? H*ll, no. I want my S's to both love and honor faithfulness and integrity, and that guy has none.

Okay, rant over.

[LL44]

is that I won't allow that scumbag to have any serious role in my S's lives. I don't respect any home-wrecking slimeball like that, and I don't expect my S's to have any respect for a man who would not only help break up his own family's home, but their family as well.

I don't blame you. xH knows VERY well that the kids will not be around 'former' OW. Ever. And OW's H is in full agreement (if they end up together) about his kids too. Its disgusting, their low morals, and I don't want the kids around that. Nor does OW *deserve* to be around such wonderful kids as my own.

Now....if for some reason.......OW and xH end up together, and this goes down...there is nothing I can do about it. Our kids aren't old enough to understand any of this, so they won't be told anything though.

Now some of you probably think I am way off base on this point.

Not me!

Right now I'd be willing to part with the 15k just to have her out of my life, with her having no strings attached to me whatsoever.

Exactly why I didn't fight xH when he asked me for part of my retirement.

Sorry you had to sign the papers. Nocode, do you stand to gain any money from the closing on this house? Will you help your situation at all? I sure hope so!

[karen43]

NC,don't know what to say. I don't think I have any good advice about this; I feel I'm kind of in the same sitch, and I'm trying to deal also. I've read a dozen books on dealing with people that are like your W, and I've tried to be friendly, polite, nice, but also try to enforce boundaries when H gets rude now. None of it seems to help in my sitch, so don't know what to tell you. I do know that I think your W and my H have changed. I could not have married or stayed married to someone like my H is now, and I'm sure it's the same in your case. (((((NC))))) Karen

[NoCodeBlues]

Lwb, at the same time as the selling of the house gives W a chance to clear her financial debts, it does the same for me. Not a lot, just enough to pay off the debts I have racked up since the separation. I had moved into this apartment with all of the obligations I had before the separation still at play -- then to add the increased expenses of maintaining a second dwelling, just so W could have her precious space from me. Child support, rent, utilities, a mortgage, plus having a second set of everything the boys need -- it all adds up, takes its toll. I have only barely been able to squeak by, carrying any shortfall between pay periods on credit.

But since May when I was demoted, the hit in my pay has really hurt. I've been going month-to-month on my lease since July since I had no idea what W's plans were (would she try to move away from here? No one knew, and she never talks to me.) -- so my lease too has been higher than even the exorbitant amount it already was. I had to start letting my credit card and my line of credit with the back rise, at least until I had some determination how this was all going to turn out.

Then W decided to move out of the house into an apartment. It's been maddening. Why would she put herself into the same fix? How, unless she had more income than she has divulged to our L's, could she afford the same costs?

Moreover, I moved out of the house over a year ago for the express purpose of shielding her and my sons from relatively spartan living and higher costs. I wanted to minimize the expenses and the trouble for all of us. But her moving out like that just negated the entire purpose for why I volunteered to be the one to move out.

I keep asking myself, "Now why was it that I moved out?!?"

If I knew then what I know now -- well, I certainly would have saved myself a lot of pain and a lot of grief. (I'd also have my dog with me 24x7 too, since I and W both agreed he would be happiest in his own backyard. Now, the poor little guy can't just walk out his puppy-door anytime like he used to.)

Of course if I knew 18 years ago what I know now...

The part about what she said though, still galls me. When she was harassing me over and over again all weekend long. She was so awfully contrite-sounding, telling me what a "blessing" this sale would be for me. She talked over and over again about how I could finally take a vacation and go see my family, or go buy some more material things like a new computer I've always wanted, or fly my mother and family out for the holidays. She over-played her hand far too much, 'cause it just made me sad for and utterly angry at her. Here she was offering bribes and incentives to me for taking this sad loser of a deal (when compared with what we both know we could have had). It upset me because she appealed not to my mind and my heart, but to materialistic self-serving ends. It showed me in plain view how little she really thought of me -- thinking that I was so shallow as to only be concerned with material gain.

My STBXW reached out with her manipulative little hands and thought she had secured them on the one handle she believes is on my soul. She was working that handle over and over again and not realizing that she had nothing but thin air.

W no longer has a handle on my mind and soul, thank the Lord Almighty. I might have fallen for this in years past, during the blindness of my depression, but no longer. As I've said from the beginning of this ordeal, I know what my real priorities are now. And it's not like I haven't expressed this to her in all these many months -- it just proves she doesn't really pay any attention anymore. She has become so jaded towards me and our R that she cannot see what is real or not.

To her credit, she did call and leave me a voicemail Monday afternoon, some time later after that morning's altercation over the phone. She actually apologized for "hurting my feelings" that day. But she droned on yet again about how she thought she was doing something good for me by getting the house sold. She seemed hurt that I would be hurt instead of accepting her view of how things should be. She said several times she was sorry and threw in, "It is what it is..."

I think it would have been a sufficient apology between most people, and I trust she thought she was being magnanimous. But I've since learned to read her better, and I now know when she truly is remorseful or not. Instead I could tell she still felt that what she said and did was still the right thing to have done, and that if she hurt me or anyone else then she's "sorry" but, well, that was just too bad.

I think I have become immune to her ways now. Or at least for my sake I am trying to.

And, Karen, you're right. Reconciliation has always been my hope and my goal in this, and what the Good Lord expects of us. But it matters not what I want -- given the person my W has become and continues to devolve into, Reconciliation with her has become impossible and unsustainable. The alien has won.

[RMG77739]

Reconciliation has always been my hope and my goal in this, and what the Good Lord expects of us. But it matters not what I want -- given the person my W has become and continues to devolve into, Reconciliation with her has become impossible and unsustainable. The alien has won.

NCB,

I understand where your heart is... You would have preferred your M and family be intact... I have been there....

But, I feel those who subscribe to the "alien" mantra on this web site are just in denial.... Unhealthy denial.... The actions you see are who your spouse really is.... No one is forcing them to do what they do.... They are exercising their God given free will... They had the potential, desire and ability to ruin their M all along.....

The thing to ponder is why do many people go through a horrible crisis AND allow their H/W to help them..... While, others "act out" and destroy their M... To me, it is all in who they really are at their core....

RMG