I just need to vent

[Livin4ME]

I also went and spent the holidays with my family. He was with her when I left. He moved back into our home, even having her here with him. I detached completely. He talked me into coming back. He left her. Said he wanted to be with me. Came and got us even. We started C. He made it to one appt. 2 weeks later, he left me AGAIN to go back to her.

[Livin4ME]

Phoenix...again, I appreciate your insight on things. Put yourself in my shoes. After all of that, can you think of anything else I CAN do? I will admit, I have a one track mind now. So if you have any other ideas, coming from a man's perspective, I would love to hear them!! (And I'm not being sarcastic there! I promise!)

[Winnie]

Hi Confused. I just wanted to say how impressed I was with how you handled that 3 am telephone call incident.

1. You just hung up, brilliant and such courage! Bravo
2. You told your husband to just be careful driving? Jesus, its almost poetic!

Wow, i just admire your courage so much. I am big pile of mush for my spouse...I just melt all the time and get used. I hate it. :P

I think you may have inspired me to stick up for myself.

What I can say or at least ask :

1. Are you committed to keeping your marriage or are you done with him? It's not entirely clear just yet.

2. Something I would like to say in general to everyone, and to help myself find some courage to stand up for myself :

There are many many many people here who are grown adults, who "get it" and won't trash a relationship like this. I oftentimes think I will never find anyone else, and that this is my only chance. I keep coming here to find so many mature, intelligent, sensitive adults working hard on their marriages under the most ridiculous situations. It is inspiring me to find the courage to challenge my spouse and risk losing everything, because there is somthing to be gained still and that I will find someone else...

TO be honest, if I ever wanted to find someone, this is the first place I would look - you guys are the most mature and emotionaly intelligent people I know.

THanks guys, you are all an inspiration.

[Livin4ME]

(((Winnie))) Thank you.
Honestly, a few months ago, h*ll, a few weeks ago, I never would have been able to handle that phone call like that. They would have ended the same way the others have...we end up yelling at each other, then me and H end up yelling at each other. He stays there, coming back the next day for his clothes.
I love my H. The last thing in the world I want is a D. But then I sat down and thought about everything that our M has been about. To me, a M is about honesty, love, respect, committment. I thought I had that, then when I thought about it. I did have that on my end...but not on his. One affair, ok. Two affairs, ok. But I've lost track of them. He's a repeat offender. If it was murder instead of affairs, he would be considered a serial killer.
So, to answer your question regarding if I'm done or not...I'll say this. Right now, yes. This has gone on for 7.5 years. But ya know, if he was to make an attempt, I'd think really hard about it. And I'm not saying candy, flowers, diamonds, etc. I'm saying, no more women. If he was to make an attempt to save our M, I would really think hard about if it was worth it. And the candy and flowers would be a plus! ;-)
And really what got me thinking was my kids. I have a 3 year old son and a 1 year old daughter. If I was to stay with all that's going on, with it never changing, we would both be horrible examples for both of them. Again, if it was one affair, or an oops, or two affairs, whatever, it would be different. But this is a serial problem. If we could work thru this and have a successful M, then we would be awesome examples for them. My parents went thru a similar sitch. My mom told me about it last year. They got thru it and have a very strong M now. I think the world of both of them. They got over an affair together and saved their M. That's awesome!
Some may say I'm contradicting myself with what I'm about to say. I learned a very hard lesson thru all this. Even tho I have my 'plan', I'm not harboring on it. My 'plan' will change because life changes. The lesson I've learned that I am actually living right now is this...The past is the past. There's nothing that can be done to change it. It's over. It's done. The future hasn't come yet. Why worry and stress about something that may or may not happen. I'm living for today. I'm living for now. Because that's the only thing I have control over. And even that is borderline! That's how I'm able to cuddle with him, tell him I love him, hold his hand, etc. Because right now, that's what I want to do. And right now I'm able to. Right now, our children see their parents loving each other. I can't think about what's to come later, because it may or may not be that way.
Some may say he's using me. He's got his W and kids at home and he's out whoring himself out. And that's fine. Because they can talk all they want. I wake up every morning and am able to look at myself in the mirror and be ok with how I'm living my life. Everyone else that talks or judges can keep doing it. Because the people that matter in my life will be there for me regardless and they know why I'm doing things. The person having the affair can say the same thing, I know that. And it's a hard thing to debate. But the only thing I can say about it is, I'm still committed to my M. I'm not having an affair or sleeping around. I'm not being a b*tch to him. I'm not kicking him out. Right now, I'm loving him. And when he leaves, that's when my 'plan' will take affect. And again, that's not being a b*tch or evil. That's called perseverance.
Winnie, regarding sticking up for yourself. You deserve it! Every person deserves it! Stick up for what you believe in. Stick up for YOU!! That doesn't mean leave your M. I believe that's the whole point of DB'ing. Live for you. You're still the person he fell in love with and married. He will realize it eventually. In some cases, it's just too late when they do. I feel that everyone makes mistakes, it's what you do after the mistakes that really matter.
And I completely agree with you regarding the people on these boards. They are amazing people with amazing advice. They will comfort you when you're down, and you will be, we all have had our good days and bad. They will be happy for you when you're up. They have great advice, not only in relationships, but for life in general.

[Phoenixdeux]

Confused,

No, I don't have ideas. And I really wasn't knocking you. I can't imagine continuing to take him back...I wouldn't. It would be great though if there were a way to get the things you want without having to continue on like you are. Does he know that he doesn't really have you? He may try harder if he was aware that you just want to finish school and move back before you end this. Perhaps he'd surprise you, but after 9+ times of cheating, I doubt it. I think that's spousal abuse he's put you through.

[Livin4ME]

I understand Phoenix...I know you weren't knocking me...it's just hard to see it.
I wish there was a way to resolve this some other way too. I fight myself everyday as to continue. But I have to finish school. I have 4 weeks left. If I asked him to leave right now, he would find reasons to not be able to help me with the kids. And as much drama is going on right now...it's weird that I can just focus on my schooling. But when he leaves, it brings new drama. And that's the drama I would have a hard time pushing to the side to be able to concentrate on school.
One time during a talk about getting back to the other state, I told him how much I could be making in one of the areas. Just something I saw online for the average salary of the speciality I am going for. That definitely peaked his interest. (He loves money!) I believe it was the same time that he told me she wouldn't go out there without him filing first. We said a couple other things and finally I told him, "It'll be ok. Everything will work out for everyone involved." And I rubbed his back and went to walk away. He said, "Only if you move to ________" And I told him, "You have alot more control over that than you think." and I smiled and continued walking away. He asked what I meant and I just smiled.
With him, just like all narcisists and I'm sure quite a few other people, I have to let him believe it was his idea before he thinks it's a good idea. So hopefully, he'll think about it and then he'll come up with this great idea that we not finalize the D until we get the money to move. That way, there's no reason for me not to move out there if it's really where I want to be. He has access to the kids when he wants them. (2 hours away) I'll be making more money, so he thinks child support will be lower. And he gets his little girlfriend to move out there as well. We can go thru the D proceedings here, then have his lawyer submit the final judgement after we move. He gets his cake and eat it too. The only thing would be for him to convince OW on the plan. Which after everything that has already happened, I really don't see her having a problem with it as long as he living with her thru all this and not me. She used to be a coke head...she replaced her addiction to coke with her addiction to him.
He has made the comment before in the past...he only wants what he can't have. She makes him leave her to come back to me. He wants her back. He leaves me and I go dark, he wants me back. It's a vicious cycle that I have to be the one to end. But in the past, I always went dark because he p*ssed me off. It was a reaction to his actions. But instead of acting on my emotions and letting my anger control what I do, I'm thinking about the consquences of what I do. I have to make sure that I don't shoot myself in the foot with what I do. I'm changing my reaction to his actions.
I know I'm going to get hurt thru all this. It's a D. It's very painful. But instead of me being hurt, no job, no home, not being near support, I'm going to be hurt, with a decent jot, being able to support myself and my children, a place to live and around my support system. That's what keeps me going. Because a few months ago, that's where I was. Packing up my stuff, no job, no money, no family or friends, no direction, about to finalize my divorce and hurting more than ever. I had no control on my life, no control on my emotions, no control on anything. I was lost, contiplating the idea of calling my dr about antidepressants before my insurance was gone. My son would come up to me while I was watching tv and say, "momma please don't cry." I wouldn't even be crying!!! But kids are smart, they feel the vibes we give off.
If I can't be strong for myself, how can I expect to be strong for my kids. My son should not have to be worried about me at the age of 3!! He gonna have a hard life anyways...I don't need to add to it!! At the rate my H is going...my son is gonna wake up one day when he gets older and realize his dad is a piece of sh*t. Not because of me, I will never do anything to make him think his father is anything but superman to him. But that's H's job. H has to show him that. Not me. I just have to prove to him that I'm superwoman!!
Sorry, I know my posts have been long. But this is really the only place I have to put my thoughts out there. And I appreciate anyone who reads them.

[Livin4ME]

Here's an update....we talked today about moving. He wants to file and it be finalized before we move. After all the hints about not finalizing it until we moved, he still didn't get it and I told him about the idea. He doesn't think he can do it. Because of her. He feels he needs to prove to her that he's done with me before she'll move with him. BUT...he's going to give me part of his reenlistment bonus so I can move out there too. hahaha...yeah, it's funny.
And he will be taking them to her house for overnites even before the D is finalized. He informed me of this!!! Even tho the courts do NOT think very good on that matter. And he knows it. It's what SHE wants. I told him it won't b happening. So he informed me, I had to go thru the courts to stop him. I told him she has no right to make decisions on our children until she becomes their step mother. Especially while we are still legally married. So get this, he actually agrees with me!!! He doesn't think they should spend overnites with her either!!! But he won't tell her that cuz then she'll walk. So he is allowing her to make decisions on OUR children, even tho he doesn't agree with them because she'll walk if he doesn't go along with it. HAHAHAHA for real!!!
AND she wants to be friends with me!!! But she doesn't want me and him to agree on anything regarding our kids unless she also agrees on it. If she doesn't agree with it, then we have to go thru the courts. I informed him that she will not be my friend because she doesn't respect me as the mother of his children. If she did, she would respect our decisions that WE agree to and she would stay out of it. And she doesn't want me and him to agree to anything cuz that would mean we're friends, and she sees that as being too tempting for him and he'll try coming back to me if we're friends. So by the end of all this, we will be hating each other and she's gonna make sure of it so there isn't any temptation for him to leave her and come back to me.
So I told him that at the rate he's going he won't be able to wipe his own a** without her permission and he'll b too chicken sh*t to ask for it. So she'll be there with him everytime he picks up and drops off the kids, regardless of where we are, just to make sure nothing is going on. And when they leave, I'll roll around on the floor laughing my a** off.

[RedHeadWife]

I need to go back & read your last few posts, but have to leave for home right now. You asked if anyone had any other ideas for you. You said that you had gone to visit your family w/ the children. Can't you go & visit them & maybe just not come back? Stay w/ them? Can your family help you financially to move back to where they are? Those were just the few things that came to my mind. I'll check back w/ you & get more caught up tomorrow. ((hugs)) you sure have been through a lot & I totally understand where you are at b/c of it all.

[Livin4ME]

Hi RedHead....unfortunately, my family is not able to help me financially. The economy has not been very nice to them either and are having their own issues financially. Also where I am wanting to move is not where my family is living. The economy in their state is just as bad as where I am now. They did help me for as long as they could over the past year, helping me get down there initially and such, but they just can't do it anymore.
Also, because of my schooling, I can't leave right now. I only have a few weeks left (thank God!!!) and then after that is clinicals. I'm hoping to get hired right out of clinicals so I can get some experience under my belt before I move. Most companies want 6 months to a year experience, but with where we'll be doing our clinicals, we have good chances of getting hired there. So I'm wanting to get that 6 months in before I move to another state and pretty much have to start all over again.
But I'm kinda stuck here with that right now. Which I really don't mind because I'll be doing something I enjoy, it's a stepping stone to doing something I really wanna do, and it will help me in the long run.

[Livin4ME]

So I let H get to me this morning. He has a way of wanting to have these talks first thing in the morning. It's really annoying and I don't like starting my day like this. And this morning I let him get to me. He will be leaving again soon. He's thinking this week. And I even asked him last night to not make any plans this weekend coming up cuz I have my final exam next week and I have to spend the weekend studying. It's really annoying how selfish he is!!! He told me, 'If I do it this week or in 2.5 weeks what's it matter, I'm still gonna do it." So I tried flipping it around on him. He's still gonna do it, so what does it matter?! He lets me finish school without dealing with this bs or he leaves and starts crap right before I finish!? This exam is 80% of my grade! He said he would take the kids with him this weekend. Ummmm...hell no. That's really not gonna help me study! Sitting there trying to deal with my kids being with the OW!!!! And he informed me again today that she WANTS