How am I doing? Need some encouragement......

[sandi2]

Hi Sam, sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner. I wanted to try to reply to some things you said. First of all, what you said about how you and your W could be thinking the same thing and how it sent chills over you.......that is not a bad thing, in fact, I would envy any couple that had that type of bonding. It just sounds as though you both were on the same wave link (as I call it) and thought alike and was like "soul mates".

I still think her drastic physical changes had something to do with her other changes. I forget if you said she had always had a weight problem or not, but if she did and then lost the weight, it is like suddenly becoming a whole new person and she has to kind of discover who that person is. At first, she may really like the attention she receives from men that try to flirt or compliment her, etc. On the other hand, she may be shy and really not know how to handle it b/c she never had to. It is all new to her.......especially if she was overweight in school b/c that just does something to girls. If she came home telling you about particular men that "came on to her", then that was her way of wanting to get your male attention stirred up and maybe if see a little jealously there. You see, I used to say a few things to my H b/c I had never seen one ounce of jealousy in him toward me. But, it always backfired b/c I did not receive the response from him that I wanted. He would act mad at me.........and that wasn't what I wanted.

I think that even she herself is confused about her feelings not coming back. I get the feeling that she does want them to come back, but doesn't know how. Of course, she has never admitted that, it's just a feeling I get from her.

I am sure she is confused about a lot of things right now. She has had like this major "make over" in her personal image and now she is separated from the man she always was in sinc with. You know, I hadn't thought about it, b/c I always thought that would be so great to have that type of R with your S, but perhaps in her case, it assisted in leading her to have that "brotherly" thing and lose a sense of sexual attraction. It is like she thought of you as a wonderful friend and she wanted that a lot, but somewhere lost the desire in the bedroom. Maybe, being separated will help her "miss you" b/c I think that is what needs to happen. She needs to not see you or be able to talk to you. You are detaching and even trying to be dark at times (except where the kids are concerned) and I think that is what you need to do. Hopefully, she will start to miss you a lot.....based on the things she has already said about you not coming by the shop, etc. So, she is taking notice......and that is a good sign. I believe you are really doing a good job by detaching and staying away......and then when you do see her, you treat her politely as you would anybody else, but without any R talks or getting into emotional stuff. So, you are doing great!

Since last year, she has not asked me to do anything at the shop. I get the feeling that she's trying to prove to herself (and to me) that she can take care of things and doesn't need me.

You are probably right about this, but not in the exact sense that you are seeing it. I think she feels she needs to do this on her own b/c it goes back to her self esteem. Most women that have been over weight for most of their teenage and adult years ahave suffered with very low self esteem. Some learned to cover it up pretty good, but they still had it. So, now that she has improved her physical appearance, I think she needs to do this business all by herself to prove to "herself" that she can do it without anybody's help (especially yours, b/c you were the one she always depended on). If she can do this on her own, then her self esteem will be good and hopefully a healthy esteem. That could be when she will start to come around to changing toward you, as well.

Should I call them and ask them not to talk to her anymore about this? I was afraid that if I did that, that they would tell her that too Trying to interfere in her relationship with her parents.

I suppose I need to wait until you tell me about the R between her and the parents. However, unless it is a special circumstance then it would probably be best just to leave it alone. Parents usually don't take the SIL's "advice" about their daughter anyway.....even when they are close, b/c they think they know their child better than anyone and most parents are going to do whatever they want to. But I'll see what you have to say about them later.

Quote:
It is my belief that if a woman's emotional needs are being met that she can even deal with having the physical needs unmet--if she has to.

What do you mean with "if she has to"? Do you mean she could just live a platonic relationship?

Well, at the time I said this, I was really thinking about doing without material things. However, in circumstances where the H has been physically hurt or disabled and cannot make love to her or do other things that he used to do for her........if her emotional needs are met by him, then I think she could handle the difficulty of other things. This is what I tried to tell my son about his M. He is disabled, and it is actually physically painful for him to have sex with his W. But I tried to explain to him (especially after my M problems) that he needed to talk to his wife and assure her of her beauty and talent and everything else. He needed to verbally make love to her and build her self esteem up. Whatever her love language is.....that is what he needed to give her. When her emotional "love bank" is filled, then she can handle the fact that he cannot physically do those other things like get up and go to work and make a living for his family like he wants to. But if he keeps depositing those emotional things into her love bank......she will be okay. He can still hug her and kiss her and hold her and things like that.

I'm not real sure about settling for just a platonic relationship. I kind of feel like that is what I've had to do on a certain level. But my emotional needs are not met, nor never have been, so I don't really know how to answer that part. I didn't really have a platonic relationship in mind when I said what I did b/c I think a woman needs to be in love with the person she is getting the emotional needs met or she eventually will dry up and feel as though she is dead on the inside......or she will go looking for somebody that will fill those needs for her. Now, I am thinking more of a "metal/emotional" need, but a lot of women's LL is physical touch.....and that usually includes making love. So, it would depend on the individual person. Have I made that clear as mud??

The only thing I am unclear of is when do you stop moving away from them when they come closer? When they are "all the way back" and in love or before that? In other words, when do you stop detaching? I was reading below and saw that you should actually never completely stop. I will have to give that some thought!

I have told the story several times about me asking my grandmother on her 60th wedding anniversary if she had any special advice for me. She didn't waste time in telling me that if you want a good marriage....then you never reach a place that you can stop working on it. Can you imagine? 60 years and still having to "work" at it? I think that when a couple has a sepration, and the WAS begins to warm up to the LBS and as you said, "come closer".....then you should repsond to that move. At fist, be careful and take things slowly. It's kind of like wading off into the water instead of plunging off the diving board into the water. In the beginning as she contines to show herself moving closer to you......you continue to respond by also moving toward her. But, if you move too quickly or you see her begin to act in a negative way.....immediately move back away. A lot of LBS are so eager to get back together with the WAS, that they "over kill" their actions (whatever that may be) and it has a negative affect and the WAS begins to back off or react in a negative way. When that happens you do not pursue and try to start talking R again and doing all the mistakes you did the first time......but immediately apply the DB rules. Just detach a little bit until she is ready to warm up toward you. Even after the couple has reconciled and is living together, you still have to keep remembering those DB rules b/c you will be in "piecing your marriage back together" and if you'll read some thread over in that forum here on the board, you will see that it is no easy task. They seem to have a short lived honeymoon period at the beginning, but then some of those old issues begin to show its ugly face again and you have to immediately apply the principles you learned from DB before it gets back into the condition it did before. That is one reason Michelle tells people to improve themselves.....for them...not just to reel in the WAS. B/c after they reconcile, the LBS will stop all the self improvements and the WAS will see that it did not stick and then the same old problems start over. So, we just have to keep working and using the skills we are taught in DB in order to keep a healthy R with out spouse. I hope I am not confusing you more. It is kind of hard to explain some of this.

I have tried that last weekend for the first time after I read your advice on another thread. Not to say that I never take showers! LOL I mean take one just before she comes and shave and put on some aftershave. She did not say anything about it, but who knows, maybe she did notice?

Oh, she noticed! Just b/c she didn't say anything doesn't mean she didn't. I can almost promise you that she did notice how good you smelled. Trust me, it just has an affect on females. The next step is to be sure you are always that way when ever you go out or if you take the kids to her or whatever. Just get into that habit. My son has always done that b/c he took it up from his father (lol) and do you know that I have actually had female clerks in stores tell me how polite, etc. my son is.....and then they will smile and say, "Oh, and he always smells sooooo good!" So, see, all females notice that. My boss, who of course I have never been sexually attracted to at all, wears some type of something scented that just has a real good fresh "clean" smell and I love it (lol). It isn't real stong or too musky, just a fresh clean smell. If it did not appear inappropriate, I would be tempted to ask him what he was wearing that smelled so good......lol. My H has always had the habit of splashing a little after shave or cologne on before he let the house....if he was just going down to the corner store.

I was looking at her sleeping in the car, completely exhausted, passed out... I just get the feeling that she probably can't sleep in her house, constantly thinking about stuff, why she's feeling this way, how come she doesn't feel anything for me when we have such a good time together... I don't know, just a feeling, a vibe I get from her.

In regard to how she was rather underderessed for the concert b/c she left straight from work and she slept on the way back.....I think it is simply b/c she is trying so hard to make her business work and it has her completely worn out. That is not to say she is not thinking about you, Sam. I believe she is going through a transition in her life that she is just going to have to work out a lot of it by herself.......even though you are a part of that stuff she is going to have to work on......most of your part will be to just give her the space and the time she needs to get it all settled in her mind. I know that is very difficult for you.

Well, the thing is that she's not contacting me as much as a couple of weeks ago... I guess it's hurting my ability to maintain a PMA a little, seems a step back, whe other stuff indicates a step forward... I guess it evens it out?

I think you just allowed your hopes to soar a little too high after some positive things that had been said. That is very typical for the LBS to do. It is also very common for the LBS to over analyze every word and deed and that is one thing that makes them nearly have a break down. So, try very hard not to do that. Don't take every word she says and break it down and try to figure out the "meaning" behind it. Don't take every little move.....like when she was going back into the house after the concert, and she stopped as though she almost forgot and was thinking about a kiss. You are placing too high of a price tag on each word and each move she makes. It will drive you crazy if you don't stop doing that. I have seen played over and over again with LBH's (especially) here on the board. I think the men are worse than the women that are the LBS, but maybe that's JMHO.

She's still in pretty bad shape financially, and she told me on the way to the concert that she will have to move into an apartment because it is cheaper. I was just asking questions as to is it nice, where is it, where will the boys sleep and such. Just normal interested friend stuff. Of course, in my head I'm thinking, why the HE!! don't you just move back in!?!? My feeling is that being separated makes it harder for us to reconnect, assuming I can keep the pressure of of her even when living in the same house. On the other hand, us living apart does allow me to freely browse this forum and to be down every once in a a while without her knowing about it... Anyways, it's just been a long LONG time and I hope it's going to get better soon....

A lot of it is her pride. Can't you see that if it were you? Would you move back into your W's house just to have a place to live b/c your business was failing and you could not afford another place to live? Of course you wouldn't! Your pride would stand in your way. You have said that this is something she needs and wants to prove to herself, but you are looking at it as if she just needs to come back home and all her problems would be solved. That is b/c your heart is talking there. You are just want her to come home!

I am just trying to let her do what she thinks will work for her. I mean, from the start of this, she has always maintained that she does want to work it out, but just doesn't know how. The separation (moving out) was her idea and she said that she thought that that would work.

So, now you are thinking with your head. Remember one thing.....and that is if her business fails.....that will be very hard on her pride and self esteem. Think how you would feel as a man if your business failed. Since I don't know her personally, I don't know how she may respond to that. She may be like a hurt animal that wants to go hide and lick her wounds or she may go into a deep depression b/c she feels like 2 marriages have failed and now her dream business failed. I know what you are hoping she will do. You are hoping she will go running into your arms. That could happen, but please, do not hold your breath and don't be too let down if it doesn't. Remember, pride controls a lot of things that we do. If she is the type of woman that wants a man to rescue her......then she may go to you, but otherwise, she probably won't. Just be prepared for anything and do not allow your emotions or anger to get the best of you if she doesn't do what you think she should. That would ruin everything. If the business fails, do be kind to her.....as a friend, but I would suggest that you do not say anything to her about moving back home. Are you listening to me now? I know this has been a long post, but you need to really listen hear and don't fall asleep on me. You are already tempted to ask her just to move back home instead of getting a cheaper apartment......don't do it. She chose to move out on her own......she needs to "want" to come back home to you. I would not offer to let her come back to the house even as platonic friend R. If she asks if she can do that......and that is what you really want.....then that is your decision, but be warned.....don't expect her feelings for you to be changed just b/c she needs a place to stay. It would be better if she wanted to return as your wife and not just as a friend.

Okay, long post....but had a lot to catch up on.

Take care,
Sandi