Anyone here with a WAS and no children?

[istherehope]

Hi to everyone on this thread,

Just to say I haven't forgotten that I volunteered to be secretary and collect the good ideas we've been given. I think I may need to wait until this weekend for the 1st update as I'm moving country on Friday, but once I get there, I will have loads of time!

ITH

[JLF75]

Thanks for stepping up ITH! We all appreciate it! :-)

[starbuck212]

Here's our story.

Married only 3 years, together 5, no kids. We have always had volatile fights. That's the sad part. We love each other & yes, we've had great times, but we've always had escalating fights that are embarassing, shameful, and overall destructive to our relationship. Our fights were physical at one point, but haven't been physical for the past year (until 2 weekends ago). But where our fights are different from probably most people's is that they get out of hand w/ name-calling, insults, general contempt, throwing everything into the argument, screaming in front of friends/ family/ neighbors, and just genearlly being mean. And the fights are ALWAYS over stupid stuff.

We both have good jobs, we live in a nice home, we're responsible people. Neither of us has cheated nor have we ever seriously contemplated cheating. But the emotional fights have beaten us down and they have broken us apart. We know what the right way to fight is supposed to be, but when we're provoked we can't seem to do the right thing. We've been in individual counseling since Jan and joint marital counseling since April (which, in my opinon, isn't long enough to say "its not working" I feel differently -- I think it's because we haven't been in counseling together on a steady basis that we've encountered so much trauma in the past month. And I also think that maybe the process of counseling is dredging up so much stuff that it's just getting harder to get through it, but that the reward is on the other side.

I accept responsiblity for all of the things that I have done and said to hurt Mike. I hate the fact that we have wounded each other so deeply through our words over all of the time that we've known each other. It's like we're two bloody soliders with gaping wounds that never heal. I think we both have a hard time letting go of past hurts & moving on. All I want to do is kiss Mike's wounds & let him heal... but I guess the hard thing is that I'm wounded by him... and because I hurt, when he comes after me verbally it's hard to put the hurt aside. I have done MANY things that I regret... MANY things throughout our relationship that give him reason to want to leave me -- 4 years ago I threatened suicide when we had a bad fight, I have since threatened divorce twice, and most recently I threatened a separation but then tried to "take it back". But I got what I asked for because Mike left me a week ago & moved to his parents.

It's been exactly a week and it's been horrible. I have been reading this board so I know the rest of you have all felt this way where you want to call them, IM them, text them, email them, etc. I've done all those things to the point where WAS was saying that I was "smothering" him. Ironically, the day he told me I was smothering him I had only texted him to tell him I was still committed him & called him & left a VM to try to instill hope in him.

Mike says that he has no idea how long this separation is for, he has no plans to check back in with me, & he says he's "thinking" and trying to figure out if he wants to divorce me. Yesterday I called him about finances & got into a bit of talk about how long does he see this separation being & he got mad at me & ended up telling me that he doesn't believe in our marriage anymore. I hung up the phone in tears, it was awful to hear. Then he IM'ed me at work to say that he wanted to tell me that he was sorry to be harsh with me but he doesn't feel like we have any hope, he's beat up from trying, he's sick of having anxiety even when we're getting along thinking about the next time we won't get along, we've tried everything, we've gone to cousenling (twice), he's read a relationship book, etc. Then I tried to tell him to be hopeful, that I know we can get through it, I tried to be the cheerleader, etc -- but every positive thing I said was met w/ him saying that I'm not being realistic, we've been on thin ice for a long time, he doesn't want to go on this way, he doesn't think we can change, our relationship has been bad before we even got married. Worse yet is that Mike used to be the cheerleader in our relationship & I was the one who was always saying that we were doomed, things were so bad, etc... and now this has completley reversed itself. I feel bad for bringing about so much emotional damage to him (although at the same time I feel so injusticed by all of his name-calling, cursing, over-reacting towards me)

I so much want to try to convice him to have hope and I've broken all of the DB rules & am thinking about breaking them right now (which is why I'm typing here vs calling him). I have called him, IMed him, texted him, emailed his mom, etc. I haven't done any of these things incessantly, but have still done them once or twice a day. this is sheer hell just not being able to connect with him & tell him that I recognize my wrongs & that I will work on changing my ways.

Despite the fact that we've had awful fights, and despite the fact that we've been strained for quite some time, I'm not ready to give up on us. I believe that we married for the right reasons and that we are married in the eyes of God. I take our vows seriously, I don't want to give up on us. I definitely feel the same frustration that Mike feels in that we're trying, we're trying, we're trying, we both know the way we're supposed to act towards each other, yet we can't seem to do it. It is so draining. So I completely understand how he feels - it's frustrating, it's emotionally tiring, and then we both start to compare ourselves to other couples & think "what's wrong with us?" "why can't we be as happy as they are?" I have hurt Mike very very deeply by saying that I've already given up on us. In counseling a few weeks ago I said "I can't do this anymore" and while I truly didn't mean that I couldn't be married anymore, it was int erpreted that way and Mike walked out. He thought I meant it was over. I just kept saying that I couldn't do this anymore. But what I mean is I know that I can't do all of this fighting anymore, I don't want to live the rest of my life this way. And I agree with Mike that we're so bogged down in this despair that we feel like there may not be any hope.

I've asked God to intercede for us, to give us peace, to help strengthen our marriage. Mike doesn't believe in my newfound spirituality and doesn't believe in asking God to help our marriage. But I don't know what else to do. I know God brought us together for a reason. We gave each other the sacrament of marriage in the presence of God. All of this fighting, etc, may be God's way of getting us to both grow to a better, more mature place. Or maybe he's given us these trials so that we both start to seek Him out together. I hope I don't sound like a holy-roller, but when we started having all of these problems, I really didn't know what to do so I started attending church classes to deepen my faith to help me get through this. And I do believe in our marriage and that everything that God gi ves us happens for a reason and that God can help us get through this. While Mike respects my faith, he doesn't share it, and I'm sad to say that I think that this has torn us even further apart. When I said to Mike that he & I share the same values, he said that no we don't, he doens't believe in all of the God stuff like I do.

I've been writing in a word document while I'm at work, as if I'm writing to Mike. I was thinking about sending it to him so he'll see how sorry I am for all of the things that I did to contribute to this separation & how I recognize my faults & am willing to change.

Please weigh in on this, I'm so lost right now and I get absolutely panicked when I think that this may not work out & that he may be consulting a lawyer right now. All I want to do is call him & talk to him...

[poet]

Starbuck,

I'm sorry this took so long to get back to you. Please don't do any of those things you suggested. Read my personal thread instead. You and I have a lot in common.

If you start your own thread and come here as a sidebar, you will probably get some really great advice. Just a thought. I wish you well.

poet

[istherehope]

OK all,

I don't have a lot of time here (am at an Internet cafe), but I'd like to post some of the pieces of wisdom that I've seen/gotten over the past week. Some of them are in my own thread. Others are on other threads, but this is the central location. Hope this is useful for us LBS with no kids...

Main theme this week has been use the LRT. I know we're all at different stages in the process, and some have more hope than others, some include OP etc., so just take what you can from this and see whether it applies to your own situations. In some cases below I've just written down general ideas that were gleaned from a multitude of posts and threads, so apologies if I forgot to give credit where credit was due:

I spoke to a DB coach last night. This always gives clarity. For my particular situation (WAH with no OW, possible depression amd MLC who I have been pursuing, and who feels I have been controlling and never listened--see my thread if you want the details), she suggested the following:

Go dark--no contact at all unless initiated by him and then only polite and casual responses

This should make me seem more interesting and pique his curiosity

Only listen and validate any negative comments about the M, even though I know he's rewriting history; by focusing on how things could be, or apologizing for what I did wrong, I am focusing on me and not him, and he's not being heard

Remember that continuing to do the same technique with more sincerity, e.g. pursuing, will probably not work. At the very least you have nothing to lose with doing a 180. You know for sure what you have been doing hasn't been working, why would it work when you increase your efforts?

Hard as it is, you can't make any real progress when you're filled with anxiety--getting rid of anxiety is easier said than done. You have to pretend at first, even if it means writing it down over and over or saying to yourself that you don't have anxiety.

From Pisces and JCJ,

Try a solutions journal. Monitor the things that you are doing that work and don't work. Try really hard to only focus on those that are bringing positive results, and immeditaley stop those that aren't.

From OD--it's not over until you say it's over. If you're committed to fighting for your M and DBing, there's always hope.

From a WA fiance (32 year old male) who I had lunch with today, he left his fiance of 8 years for a PA/EA, but his F really, really wanted to work things out. He says that he would have reconsidered if only he hadn't felt like he held all of the cards, if only it had seemed that she was moving on with or without him...He never really had clarity so had to just make a decision. To this day (nearly 1 year later and EA/PA ended) he doesn't know if he made the right decision.

General consensus from the boards...

Don't write letters, unless pursuing is somehow a 180 for you. If you have been pursuing, this will only be seen as pressure, no matter how well-intentioned and well-written.

WAS withdraw because they feel guilty and can't cope. Do NOT add to this guilt. You need to act as-if you are OK with everything, and really listen, validate, and understand in a non-judgmental and non-confrontational way.

Let people fix themselves. Don't offer help to a WAS who is struggling emotionally. Just make it clear through your actions that you support them (by listening and validating or giving space when asked).

Don't expect to get a thank you or an apology from a WAS even when you are making clear and massive efforts to do good things for them. They just can't see beyond their own issues and/or are so wrapped up in guilt that they can't express their emotions properly. See your WAS as an alien--might help.

Stick to safe topics, don't bring up R in your conversations, but do listen if he/she does.

Do give space if you're asked to. It shows you are listening.

Mixed views on ML and the separation. Some see it as building a connection--others see it as being used, depends on the situation.

I'll look for more pearls of wisdom to post later...

ITH

[MsMelancoly]

Hey, Well, This thread kinda died - what happened? Will some of you post the link to your thread? (Sorry, don't know how to do it myself). I would like to read some of them & see what sitches you're dealing with.

Train In Vain - Infidelity? - Help - Need Advise!!

[poet]

Poet's Corner of the World

Here's mine, Ms. Melancholy

poet

[Silver Fox]

Hi all,

I'm at work & not supposed to be doing this right now but I just found this thread & would like someone to read my story. Don't know how to link it!

I'll check back in tonight.

[Silver Fox]

My thread is True Love or True Fog?

[Loving_Life]

Hi all,

I'm another WAS/no kids sitch. In my sitch, initially both of us walked away, but we are now talking again. I'm more committed to the R than my stbx, however, and am taking it day by day to see if there is a chance things work out. I first picked up DB/DR 4 yrs ago and was successful piecing for a while. Hopefully, I have some ideas to offer for others! I saw this on another thread and I think it's key- Stages of reconciliation:

1-Diffusing negative emotions
2-Friendship
3-Romance/Flirting
4-Piecing/R talk