And it also has me still trying to square this with her other strong suggestion that I move back into the house until it does sell -- which I have yet to fathom why on earth she feels that is a good idea fro me or why she even cares -- what is her angle in all this? I don't get it.
Sorry about your job. I always like to be busy, but there are limits to that!!! You still need to take a vacation this year don't you??? Did you ever work that out?
Yeah, I think the housing market is really bad right now. They are offering houses in our area for about half of what they were a year or 2 ago. Of course, I think they were overpriced then, but crazy low prices around here now. My H wants to sell our house too, but we would have to sell it at a loss I suspect to sell it anytime in the near future, and the last thing we need is more debt now. Esp. when you are going to be renting, the worst time to sell a house for that is now I think. I would be hesitant to move into your house until it sells, b/c I think most people are either not buying houses now or trying to make a big profit off any desperate people out there.
Yeah, your W is a cut and runner, but with maturity you just can't do that kind of stuff. The D stuff is majorly stressful but I just know something that has to be gone through and I just try to focus on the kids. Karen
NC, Is it an option of you moving back into the house until it sells? At least you wouldn't have to pay rent in addtion to your mortgage. The housing market is so bad now.
Hope you and the boys have a nice weekend? Any big plans?
Hugs, Yoyo
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
I picked up the boys from school yesterday and delivered them to W since she was running late in trying to pick them up herself. I seem to be doing that a lot lately, but I am doing this for our S's, not for her.
She took them to see the Walking with Dinosaurs Live show last night. And I went to my little Christian social/bible study. I tried to call W's cellphone(s) to say goodnight to the boys, but only got her voicemail, which if they were arriving for the show at that time it would be understandable. So I left a nice message and hoped they had a great time with their mommy at the dinosaur show.
Then later that evening, I apparently missed her return call -- I got a return voicemail. And I got the voicemail expecting to hear my S's voices returning the "goodnight" I left them, but it was W; she didn't relay anything about the kids or the show -- she just told me that the couple who had made the two offers on our house this week have come back with a final offer after haggling with our agent. It's not the 34k below our minimum or the 20k below our minimum but now is at the 15k below our minimum -- and W is ready to jump on the deal.
I checked the date and time stamp of the voicemail just to make sure this wasn't some late arriving message (my phone tends to report messages and pages later than it should), but it was sent about 9 PM last night. So, W's focus was squarely on our selling of the house, not on our children. Made me sad and disgusted.
I talked to my friends after our study was over, mentioning the message I had just received. They think I should try to refi the house, buy W out, and take on a boarder if need be. Then sell the house for full profit in the future when the economy picks back up. My friend "M" showed the others the pics of my sons bedrooms on the web, and said I should keep the house for that reason alone.
I've gotten conflicting points of views so far from both family and friends. I wouldn't even be considering this if it weren't for the fact that by selling under these terms the house would go for a bit less than what we had (or I thought we had) both agreed upon as our absolute minimum when we started this.
I called my sons this morning to try to talk to them. S7 was still asleep (very, very tired out from yesterday) but S3 was awake and talked a little. He loved the dinosaurs show, and enthusiastically tried to describe everything he saw. I thanked his mommy for taking them.
But instead of waking S7 to talk to me, W got on the phone with me again and gave me more spiel about the offer on the house. She talked and talked and I patiently listened. The gist of it is from what I gathered that she is tired of being in debt (apparently against her own better judgement she has run up her credit cards again by moving into her apartment) and she had not expected the selling of the house to have gotten so sketchy. She wants out and wants to settle her debts with the profits. While we would be selling the house for about 20-25k less than what it is really worth, the large amount of equity we've built up in the house would be enough such that her half would free her completely from her mounting debt. (This explains how she was able to afford a house note and an apartment lease, plus all of the other extravagances she's indulged in -- basically she can't. This is sooo unlike the woman I had married.)
She put it like I could either (A) call the agent and tell him we'll accept the offer to sell, or (B) contact our mortgage broker and see about whether I could refinance the house in my name alone, take some of the payoff (I don't understand where she thinks there would be any -- but I am not that knowledgeable) to buy her out and let her off the hook. I would keep the house but have to take up a sizeable monthly payment, close to double the apartment rent, plus all of the maintenance (the air conditioning unit is on its last legs and needs replacement) and upkeep.
Either way, she could pay her debts and be free.
While I didn't expect her to, she didn't mention the third option rolling around my head while she was giving me her "assessment" -- option (C) would be for the two of us to reconcile and move back into the house together, saving us both a huge amount of expense and preserving our investment in the property and in this family. But that is obviously the last thing on her mind. Then again, she hasn't shown any level of trustworthiness in the last 17 months to warrant my risking anything on her ability to commit to anything financial, marital or moral.
I still don't know why she has thought me moving into the house is such agreat idea unless she expects me to refi and buy her out. I've told her all along it's just too expensive a prospect. I didn't like being house-poor on two salaries (okay, one and a half salaries) let alone just one -- I think being house poor had been a serious handicap to our marital situation to begin with.
I hold out no hope for W. She's fallen back on her old ways and embracing now what she once considered naive mistakes. I know she's still "dating" the OM (I got wind she went to a movie with the SOB last weekend -- they went to see the new Billy Graham biography, no less -- what gall!) All I want is to hold onto my relationship with my sons, and to minimize the impact that their mother's selfishness is wreaking on them and their lives. I am determined that they will grow up knowing right from wrong, to have a moral compass, to love and follow Christ, and to want to be good strong men.
I tried to tell W I want to think about this some more. She said we can't sit on this offer too long or they'll move on to another house. She was insistent that I call the agent and let him know ASAP. I told her I wanted time to consider this, to look at some numbers. She got mad and defensive at this, saying I never listen to her and never trust anything she has to say. While I started to say to her that she was no longer a person worthy of my trust, I instead said that she just continues to put words in my mouth. I also said it's unlikely the agent would be able to do anything until Monday anyway.
I will do some serious praying and thinking this weekend -- I have no intention of doing anything before Monday, and they will all have to understand that. I would prefer time to contact my L with this last minute information, but I don't think I'm going to get the opportunity. It's all at an unfortunate, busy, busy time for me -- too much on my plate as it is this week.
Well, what do the numbers crunch out to be? Do you love the house? What would your house payment be if you refinanced? Would you qualify for a higher mortgage payment? How much would a boarder bring in? Do you get along with roommates? How long is your time horizon? Would you be okay if you had to stay in the house for 8 years before it recovered its' value? Could you get a part-time job to help with making the payments? Woulde you want to live in that house with a new wife, given all the memories of your marriage?
Look at the numbers, this is a business question as much as anything.
Figure out what the payout to you and your W would be if you accepted the low offer. Take out realtor fees, closing cost etc. Take that bottom line figure, divide it by 2 and subtract 20%. This would be the amount you would offer your W if you are able to take over the house yourself.
Last edited by mcojh; 10/25/0808:21 PM.
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
I like MC's idea! If you are going to do it, that sounds sensible to me. BTW, I totally relate to your disgust about W just focusing on the house instead of the kids. H had promised the kids he would call them Monday night and then again forgot to call them (said he didn't get my email reminding him to call them also). He emailed me Tuesday that he should have put it on his calendar!!! Can you imagine having to put your kids on a calendar to remember them??? Karen
I have sooo been down this road with the house..... I got $20,000 in "equity"..... I spent way more than that to fix it up to sell it to break even.... AND new W and I spent many, many days cleaning it up... my exW just left the mess behind....
My advice is the following:
1. Get the house 100% ready to sell. Split the expenses 50/50.
2. Draft a legal agreement each of you has the right of first refusal... So, if the highest offer you get is for $250,000 either of you can buy it for that... If you both want it at that price... Flip a coin or something....
3. Put it on the market.
4. See what happens.....
You may estimate the house is worth $275,000... You may only get $250,000 for it.... Why should you take on the mortgage just to let her walk away..... Your M is ending..... I think it is fair to split any profit or loss 50/50.....
Had I played my cards that way... My exW would have been FORCED to help me clean the house... We would have split the "fix up" costs...... I probably would have ben $20,000 ahead of the game... I guess that was a small price to pay to get her out of my life ASAP...
In the end, the exW may end up owing you money AND you get the house (in better condition) you can sell when the market rebounds....
RMG
"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"
Just the other day you were saddened by the fact that your boys have nowhere to ride bikes when you are with them.
I am where you are. xH was totally focused on money when we were splitting. He got a large amount on D day, and will get another large amount in about 20 more days (yes, he took some of my retirement). I got the house after that. So he is debt free and I am house poor. But I get the big house, the yard, the wonderful street, and 100% profit when I sell. There is still equity in it as well. I can pay the bills, and still save a bit. Not as much as I want, but that will change down the road.
You can see my position here. Right now you are paying your rent and half the house payment right? If you do the math, and can afford it after paying W off, I say move back into the house.
I have been pondering my choices (such as they are) since yesterday, while nursing a really bad head-cold. I feel miserable enough without being on call for work -- and without having W hound me every chance she gets.
I tell you, I am so disgusted with her right now, I could spit napalm. Every time, and I mean every time I have tried to talk to my sons (which we try to do once in the AM and once in the PM when we don't have the kids) W has taken the opportunity to insert another word about taking this offer. She is more than syrupy and congenial, mind you, but its now so painfully obvious this all about her. She keeps coming up with more little arguments to support her case while trying to make it sound like it will be a plus for me. She's talking now about what I could do with the profit -- take a vacation, fly to see family, buy a new computer, or fly my mother up here for the holidays.
I'm sick of her. I used to count myself lucky that my S's mother at least put them first in her life. I mean, she could have abandoned her children just like her own mother did. And she really seemed to love them ahead of her own self (even though she skewed what was really in their best interest) -- well, no longer.
This morning, after I managed to try to talk to two highly distracted boys (she had them watching a show on the DVR) she called back to tell me that S7 was ill and wouldn't be going to church. She then asked if I was too sick to go to church myself (which I had already told S7 and S3) -- but she used that as another lead-in to talk about how exciting it would be for me to be able to fly my mother out here for the holidays -- like W gives even a rat's p'tard now for what my mother does. Oh, she was nice and friendly about it, but I saw it for what it was. As W began to wind up again for the pitch I abruptly told her I was going to hang up now. W asked was I that ill, which I replied I was.
I got to thinking that my W has the ability to turn on the charm and act like she's the most concerned and caring person, at will. I concluded that I must have been a dumb sap who fell for her false words all these years, failing to recognize (at least consciously)when she was not really sincere and only trying to manipulate people to get what she wants.
I feel like she's now holding my kids hostage to her interests, to eek out concessions from me at a time when I am simultaneously over-worked, under-slept, irritable from being on-call, and suffering flu-like symptoms. Can she not see what she is doing to us? I just want to talk to my sons. I don't need this hard-sell.
And then she has had the gall to call me three more times today -- all about the same cr*p. I let her go to the answering machine and will continue to do so. And she's pouring on the sympathy for me all of a sudden, saying she hopes my cold will abate, giving me advice about what to take and to monitor my blood pressure (if she only knew the source of my increasing hypertension!)
I kid you not, I am on-call for work this week, and so-far I've had more calls from W than from work!
Despite this, and despite the fact I'd like nothing more than to thwart her precious plans and machinations, I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just let the house go. It's too costly to upkeep and the tax benefits are more than offset by the added cost of the mortgage. I guess it comes down to whether one has faith in the economy enough to risk it getting better in a reasonable timeframe. Right now, I have little faith in the institutions of Man, other than I am convinced that if they get a chance to, they'll screw it up for all of us. Given the precarious position I am in in my career, now a 20-year veteran, and the demotion back in May, I don't put a lot of faith in my employers. And if the economy tanks anymore than it has, then I can see foreclosure in my future. (Don't talk to me about Obama or McCain, I am convinced that not only can neither of them do anything to solve our many woes, but either of these two will actually contribute to it getting worse. Try to prove me wrong, if you dare.)
No, Lwb, I am still tempted, but I could just as easily find an older, cheaper home outside of this pseudo-urban area. A place a little more reasonable and affordable and not quite so taken up with status and materialism. One where my kids can ride their bikes and have a "normal" neighborhood lifestyle. Right now, though, that is not in the cards.
So, I'm leaning towards getting out myself. Let W continue to ruin her own life, chasing after married men and only concerned with her precious credit rating. She's leeched off of me for far too long as it is.
I'm still thinking (or trying to) but that's where I'm at at present.
I am still tempted, but I could just as easily find an older, cheaper home outside of this pseudo-urban area. A place a little more reasonable and affordable and not quite so taken up with status and materialism. One where my kids can ride their bikes and have a "normal" neighborhood lifestyle.
Okay, then, if it is in your best interests to sell, don't be too picky about offers. It's a bad time to be selling, and the real estate market is tanking. Talk to an independent realtor if you need an objective second opinion.
Karen