Wish I could read her mind (7)>>>>

[Bworl]

....it really is time to try to progress things in another direction and see what that brings to the sitch.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
(Ancient words of wisdom)

Alright, I'll admit that I may be focusing on a single phrase and perhaps taking it a bit out of context, but humor me.

Given that your situation is rather unique on this board in that you and your wife have all the appearances of a fairly good, interactive relationship, I am certain that you have goals in mind for the relationship between your wife and you.

I am also completely certain that your main goal is for her to pronounce to you at some point that she has seen and believes in your changes and no longer desires for the two of you to part.

I believe it's coming. In time. Though I know you worry over this.

But what about goals along the way? Things that you wanted/hoped to see begin to happen that might indicate that perhaps the tide was beginning to turn in your favor?

I only ask because with the comment above, you seem to be suggesting the need for some changes, presumably to see some positive developments in your situation.

You know me Tim. I see positives galore.

Perhaps not the ONE you want the most, but lots of positives all the same. She has clearly softened towards you, even in a sitch where she has always been more loving towards you than most potential walk away spouses.

Now...if you are simply indicating your ever present need to get more normalcy in your life together, then I understand and retract my concerns. But if you are suggesting that you're NOT seeing results with your current approach, I humbly disagree.

You yourself have told us that the social activities are normal for you and your wife, though perhaps the frequency is a bit higher than normal. Keep in mind that your wife, I believe, is enjoying a renaissance of sorts in her life with you. Many of these things that you are now enjoying have been denied to her for some time prior to the most recent bomb. Or, if they were present, they came with recriminations that made them less than enjoyable.

Things are proceeding very nicely in my opinion.

Don't create trouble for yourself.

Though I would hate for you to become lazy and presumptious, my advice to you would be to REST. And to ENJOY. Embrace the moments you have together and be less critical about the specifics. Look to what is important. How does she respond to you? Is she relaxed, comfortable, at peace with herself in these moments? If the answer to these questions is yes, then I think you're right where you need to be.

As I see your sitch, you are wearing her resistance down with the honesty of your changes and the commitment of your devotion to her. As time goes on, each day is evidence to her that what she sees in front of her is real, that the man in front of her that seems to be too good to be true is, in fact, true and all hers.

Have confidence in you. And have confidence in her and the love the two of you have.


Blessings,

Bill

[ndsmhelp]

Another slow late night at work....reading through some old posts and found this...had almost forgotten about it.

I wrote a "Dear AWAW" letter when Smartcookie had that thread going...sorry SC, I know that was my idea.

Forrest took it and added his take, sort of "in between the lines".

The lines in quotes are mine and the others FG added. It still just tears my heart out when I read it, mostly because of what the wordsmith added....can't make it through the whole thing dry eyed.

As my wife and I are at the 6 month mark since the bomb, seemingly doing well, but with pretty much no talk of the R or marriage, I am tempted at times to give it to her.

I have a hand written copy I wrote out back in August, sealed in an envelope on my desk.....still not enough nerve, though.



"Dear AWAW,"


"Since the time has not yet come for you to open up to me and have a conversation about our marriage and relationship,"

As much as I want to now.

"I thought I would write you a note."

From the heart. This is the way I feel.

"When you finally came to me with your decision to end the marriage, I know it was not a decision you came to easily."

I questioned why. I wanted to understand why you chose to be without me. I never wanted to be without you.

"You put up with a lot from me and gave me all the time in the world to be the husband I should have been, and I let you down."

I did the same for you. I knew who you were from day one. I don't know what happened.. but we both drifted apart.


"I know saying "I am sorry" does not make up for that. I let you down, I broke my promise to cherish you for the rest of my life and allowed you to drift farther and farther away from me as the years went by."

I was hoping you would get over it. I had no idea the hurt you held close. Even if I did understand.. what could I say or do to make it better. I tried.. really I did.

"So many chances I had to reach out and pull you back to me, and I let you drift away....farther and farther, until you were just out of reach."

Now.. I just can't reach you. I fight myself some. You just seem to lose me at times. I don't know what to do. I want to show you I love you.. but you seem so distant. Oh.. that hurts.

"I suppose after a while the distance for you was just too great. Was it an arm's length, a foot or a mile? What does it matter?"

I lost you. The person I knew you could be. In that.. I lost me. I did not mean for that to happen.. it just did. What can I do.. that will make you see?

"As hard as all of those years you spent unhappy were, I know how hard the last 4 months have been on you."

See now you see me as unhappy. I shine in that. I saw you too. Just had no idea what to do.

"I am sure when you finally summoned up enough courage to tell me what you wanted, you were hoping for an end to the hurt, the pain and the drama you had endured all those years."

You don't know how many times.. I have felt just like that. I felt it to. What does a person do? If I could have taken it away.. I would have. Instead.. I made thing worse. In not knowing what to do.. I let you down! I let me down too. I wanted so much more.

"Your kind heart, and, my hope is, the love you still feel for me somewhere inside stopped you from abruptly ending the relationship."

No.. I can see this hurts you. I just want a change. Let me show you the love. It has always been there.. even if you could not see it.


"You didn't leave, nor did you tell me I had to, but it was over, you said, and I had no choice but to believe that and accept it."

I am happy you did not leave.. you gave me the chance to show you how I felt. At times.. I doubted you could see it.. and I acted the fool. What did you expect me to do?

"Did you stay because you had to?"

I know you did not have to do this.. I thank you for doing it.


"Because you wanted to give me that one last chance."

I never wanted a last chance.

"Could you possibly still care that much about me, after what I have done, to worry about hurting me? How confusing this is for both of us. Can either one of us have any less pain or confusion than the other?"

No.

"Has the last four months just prolonged these feelings for you, or made them memories that seem to be more distant as the days and weeks pass?"

God I hope so.

"Some days the distance between us is so great, I can barely see your silhouette on the horizon. Than there are days you are so close, I can feel your breath on my neck and smell the sweet scent of your skin."

That is all I ever wanted.

"I cherish the close days, and fear the distant ones, but want you to know that you are still here in my heart whatever the space between us."


Please know, in my heart, I love you with all my that I am. I will be forever sorry for what I have done to us, and no matter what path you choose to walk on, I will be on the one next to you, hoping that they cross somewhere down the road.

What can you say? What can you do?

[ndsmhelp]

Bill
I guess I was writing as you were posting and missed it.

Alright, I'll admit that I may be focusing on a single phrase and perhaps taking it a bit out of context, but humor me.

Now...if you are simply indicating your ever present need to get more normalcy in your life together, then I understand and retract my concerns. But if you are suggesting that you're NOT seeing results with your current approach, I humbly disagree.

You yourself have told us that the social activities are normal for you and your wife, though perhaps the frequency is a bit higher than normal. Keep in mind that your wife, I believe, is enjoying a renaissance of sorts in her life with you. Many of these things that you are now enjoying have been denied to her for some time prior to the most recent bomb. Or, if they were present, they came with recriminations that made them less than enjoyable.

Yes...you focused just a bit too much on that one phrase.

What I meant was more of change in direction for myself, rather than the situation.

You know that I have not worked very hard at GAL or activities outside of the marriage....those are things that have been hard for me because of, as you say, the uniqueness of the sitch. These should be more of a priority for me no matter how well things appear to be going. They can only help if in fact we end up staying together and working on the marriage.

There are also numerous things, I guess still GAL things, that I promised myself I would accomplish....more work around the house, home improvement, getting financial affairs in order, getting healthy, exercising.

The social life is great, but we have settled into a rut and it is not just social activities that involve alcohol....too much at home, too much in our spare time....I have never tried very hard to get us involved in more constructive activities together, or done them on my own to see if she follows along. It always falls back to a night out, or a show or weekend away.

Trust me, we are having a ball, but we are not kids and not rich...it is the normalcy I am seeking and sometimes wonder how she will react to a change....does she want it, too...or will it affect the sitch negatively??

She is for the most part more relaxed and comfortable with me...more so the last month or so....as I have said, that is more noticeable recently.

I am not trying to create trouble for myself....only trying to that better husband, person and father that I promised many months back.

Things are good, I admit, but somehow I always thought is was more her allowing me back in...not me working very hard to get back in.

What I did was easy...treat her as though I love her, cherish her and do not want to lose her, because I do. It's the rest that has been hard for me....sometimes I feel like I am taking the easy way out rather than working on the more substantial things.

Don't worry, I am not going to screw this up...just trying to get a handle on things and make sure I keep it on course, even if it means a slight correction in the course.

Tim

[Forrest Gump]

"Do you mean that you are no longer able to "work" on yourself by posting here?"

I learn a lot from people posting. I guess you could say I work on myself all the time. Sometimes I will write something.. come back and read it later.. and it has a different meaning. I am of the opinion we never stop working on ourselves.

Most of the people I know have moved to other groups.. and I find my time "slipping" away from being able to "Work" here. I said all that just to give some perspective to you Ndsmhelp. It does not matter what you "stitch" looks like.. posting here (DB.com) shows the intent you have... or as I call it.. your heart.

I wrote that saying.. the people that I know from here and have "worked" with have kinda spread out.. and my schedule has become hard for me to find time to post. In the scheme of things all of that does not matter.. If I make 10 mins a day.. or 10 hours.. to post here (DB.com) then I am giving back.. or hopefully helping someone. I have come under fire for not having my "stitch" written out here.. you have come under fire for "having it all" and not seeing it. Again in the scheme of things that does not matter. If you have something valuable to add.. add it.

"Hmmmm...that's some big shoes to fill my friend. I am not going anywhere, so we'll see what happens. At least I can't get sued for malpractice, right??"

Trust me.. my shoes are no bigger than yours. Does not matter who you are.. we all show up here (DB.com) all wearing the same size. Its what you choose to do with what you learn that makes the difference on the size you walk out of here with.

Lucky Cricket

[ndsmhelp]

I hear you....guess maybe it is just a matter of me not really thinking that what I have to say may be of value to someone else.

That may come from my sitch and the fact that it is quite a bit different than most on here.

Also, I feel like I never did a stellar job at following most of the DB principals in general. The change in behavior towards my wife was easy for me...it was an awakening, or an epiphany...whatever you want to call it, it stayed with me, has become a part of me....I truly never find myself having to "work" at that. I had reached the bottom in that respect and there was no where else to go but up.

The rest, GAL..detaching, etc....those things as you well know, were and continue to be issues for me, and in the long run can only help the R if we continue the same path we are on now.

So I guess that's about it....maybe just more "paralysis from analysis"....not wanting to pipe in or say the wrong thing unless I know it is exactly right....LOL....but will keep reading and coming here, and chiming in when it feels right.

....and journaling, I suppose.

[steady]

nds, I can relate to what you are saying about not being good at the 'GAL' aspect of DB'ing. I have two little kids, a 2 hour commute one way to my job, no friends here (moved here 2 years ago) so it's very hard for me to get out of the house.

I was told to GAL inside the house. Hobbies, home projects, etc... that opened my eyes to the fact that GAL'ing doesn't necessarily mean getting away from the house to do things.

I've come to the conclusion that GAL'ing stands for many things. Keeping the focus on ourselves rather than our W's or our sitch. Doing things that make us happy - that includes making the changes we want to make to make us better people. It includes taking care of the house and kids (if we have them). It encompases anything that shows you can be responsible and effective at what you are doing.

So in this sense, you have been GAL'ing all along. It doesn't matter if it comes easy or not. Treating my W with love and respect has become easy for me also. The light switch went off when the bomb hit and my eyes have been opened ever since. It has become very easy for me to look and see the things my W and family need me to do. My focus is in a totally different place - and I can't say it's because I created the new found focus. It happened to me. The part I played was to not allow myself to become distracted by anything that doesn't matter.

Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W. It's when we depend only on our W and become so needy that they are the only source we can turn to in order to be happy, or productive or alive that it becomes a problem. And believe me, they feel it if this happens. When you become an independent person who can stand on his own two feet without depending on someone else to create your happines, then they feel that. That's the man they fell in love with.

This is what the impact of GAL'ing has. You have it. You do it. Make no mistake about that.

You are in a phase where you want you and your W to me more responsible with other things that matter 'outside' of your R. I quote it because it isn't trully outside but a part of your R. Planning life and taking care of chores and house stuff is part of both of your lives, therefore part of your relationship.

You are doing great. I don't think there's anything wrong with where your head is at - except if moving into that area has a negative impact on your R.

This is all just my opinion, so anyone feel free to chime in to correct me.

A comment on whether you have anything to contribute or not. All you can do is present what you have done and what has worked and not worked for you. It's up to the person you are posting to find the diamonds. Ten different people can read the same post and get 10 different things from it. It relates to where they are at in their own growth and individual sitch. It's not up to us to spout wisdom but to merely share our experiences. When you do that you will be surprised at how many diamonds get plucked from your writing.

[marriedCrazy]

Good post steady. I think you do have it.

It has given some quick insight on GAL; because I am in the same sitch with 2 small kids, and not very much time or money to GAL outside the home.

[Coach]

Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W. It's when we depend only on our W and become so needy that they are the only source we can turn to in order to be happy, or productive or alive that it becomes a problem. And believe me, they feel it if this happens. When you become an independent person who can stand on his own two feet without depending on someone else to create your happines, then they feel that. That's the man they fell in love with.

Well said. Should be required ready for "newbie" DAMs.

[ndsmhelp]

I was told to GAL inside the house. Hobbies, home projects, etc... that opened my eyes to the fact that GAL'ing doesn't necessarily mean getting away from the house to do things.

I've come to the conclusion that GAL'ing stands for many things. Keeping the focus on ourselves rather than our W's or our sitch. Doing things that make us happy - that includes making the changes we want to make to make us better people. It includes taking care of the house and kids (if we have them). It encompases anything that shows you can be responsible and effective at what you are doing.

Steady...that was my point..I really have not done a good job at those things. In the beginning I was all over it, but as time went on and she softened, I found myself just remaining focused on her, wanting to spend as much time with her as I could, doing all the crazy stuff we do.

That is what put me into this limbo land...mostly good things between us, no commitment from her for the R or marriage, and me plugging along trying to remain close and treat her right...most times at the expense of my own goals. Not all bad, but still not what the process, at least in my mind, was supposed to be.

Sounds crazy....but I almost feel I would have done a better job on myself if she had not been so receptive to my changes early on....she did not make me work very hard...LOL...and I count myself as lucky that things have progressed as well as they have.

Guess in some ways, even though things seem good, I am disappointed in myself for not carrying through with the original promises I made to her and myself.....basically just to simplify and organize our lives.."home", house and finances....to be together or not, so that in the end we both would be OK.

The most important one was done...my change in behavior towards her, and that will stand forever. The rest, I just have to stop focusing on what I have not done in the last 6 months, and get my arse in gear.

Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W.

Anyway...if interacting with my wife is GAL, than I will say I must be doing something right....interaction for us would be an understatement, I guess.

Things are still calm and she really does seem very relaxed around me, no matter what we may be doing.

We have been either at home, trying to be a little more normal, or going out here and there..nothing crazy..at least not quite as crazy as in the past.

The other night we were out for a beer, wings and a game of pool..home and to sleep early for a change. The place we were at is having a Halloween party next week and I asked if she wanted to go...no questions, no excuses....just a "Yes...we need to get costumes"....not a worry over whether anyone else will be there, or if she may have had plans, etc....just a "yes, let's go".

Last night we drove down to a Halloween store and got costumes and makeup...then went out for a bite to eat.....once again, home early and in bed at a reasonable time.

The time together recently has been filled with conversation about the election...something very different for us, and part of her GAL whether she realizes it or not...just like the football thing. I have told her several times how it is good to see her take an interest in something she knew nothing about, learn about it, ask questions and have fun with it.

Last night as we talked about a heated email election conversation going on between my brothers and me, she paid me a compliment about my word and writing skills. Compliments have been few these past 6 months, almost like she has been afraid to give me any idea that there are still things she may like about me.

Along with the compliments come a little chop busting and good natured ribbing...something else that may have been lacking the last few months.

We seem to have reached a point where we can joke about a shortcoming one of us has or "make fun" of each other, without the other taking it personal.

During the marriage, she had become so sensitive to any comment or perceived criticism that I could not look at her sideways without her thinking I was hurling an insult, or putting her down.

Also...the comments a while ago about her sleeping on the couch....one night, I think, in almost 2 weeks now. If Bill was right and this may be a gauge in where she is at in the R, than maybe what I am seeing and feeling from her is for real. It is the longest stretch off the couch in quite some time.

[ndsmhelp]

One more thing I wanted to mention...as my wife and I seem to get more comfortable, and the "normal" conversation increases, I noticed something.

She seems to be slightly bothered by the breaks sometimes. We will be chatting, into some heated discussion or just yacking about nothing and there will be a few moments of silence....and she will say "So that's it..nothing more to talk about....you're all done talking to me??"

That happened last night and I swear there was something she wanted to add, or had something on her mind, but I didn't want to push or read too much into it.

When she gave me the "what are you all done talking?"...I said jeez wife, we just got done with a 15 minute conversation..we were talking for the whole ride..what do want to talk about??

She said "I don't know...we should just talk"...we do talk all the time..."I know..maybe we should talk more"...about what, I said.

...and a pause..."Oh I don't know...let's just listen to some music...you big jerk", with a laugh and a slap on the arm.