For the Guy with Kids and a WW Dix-Sept

[karen43]

I just can't get over his replies to you. It's bad enough the kind of person he is and then to text you like that. Your emails made me laugh! I've always thought we should have more fun with DBing. And when he leaves his toothbrush or whatever, go ahead and try to make that toilet bowl sparkle!!!

That is sad about your S14 and how he is thinking. My guess would be that he has heard his mom or Tom discussing that kind of thing and their justifying what they're doing. My kids at least tend to take what grownups say as gospel. That's very sad, and I'm glad that you are talking to your S, and probably more importantly being a great role model for him. My H lies to the kids too that OW is just a friend. I think it's horrible to do that to your own kids!!! Karen

[InLikeFlynn]

Way to teach the kids the value of marriage....."Its just a piece of paper"!!!

[hopeful4her]

Thanks for ya'lls support guys.

I think I bring the drama about to myself. I just can't face the reality of her moving on living happy without me.

I didn't realize that she had called my phone before she called S14's phone. I realized it after I put the girls to bed.

D7 is missing her mom. D11 called her just before bed. They talk, but D11 hung up thinking that D7 was asleep and she wasn't. She got upset so I let her call her mom. She starts to cry on the phone and tells the wife that she misses her. I let them talk for a while and I can tell that the wife is letting her know that she can go back early, like Saturday or something.

After I finally get them to bed, I go outside to listen to the VM. She was calling to talk to the girls, if I could have them call her. And also she will talk to me later on about how I handled the situation earlier, "And you know what I'm talking about."

So I call her back.
"Hey, you want to talk to me?"
"No...probably best to wait until tomorrow. I don't want to say the wrong thing."
"Okay" like I was ready to hang up on her again.
"No. I might as well get it over with now."

We ended up talking for about an hour and half. Started out as me being immature with my cussing at Tom. I need to be an adult. I told her that he pissed me off. She asks why. I told her why. She asks me what I saw. There was nothing that would have given any kind of idea.
"We walk in and the first thing Juli sees are his shoes. 'Oh, those are Toms shoes'!"
"What shoes? I don't see any shoes. Where are the shoes?"

"I don't know."

"Why are you snooping around my apartment anyway?!"
"I go take a piss and there his stuff was!"
"Well, your not allowed in my bathroom."
"I just took a leak!"
"Well, next time use the girls!"
"Next time, I will!"



She goes on a rant about it being her place, she can do what the f*ck she wants to do and blah blah. I let her know that I know its her place and she CAN do what the hell she wants, but I don't want my girls involved in it. I mean, we go back and forth. I need to move on. How S14 feels about marriage now. She justified it and told me that I was just mad because I had to hear it from a 14 year old and I didn't like it.

I remind her that we're still married. She denies it. That we do NOT have a marriage anymore. She moved out.
"Just because you moved out didn't make the marriage end."
"It is to me." she says.

How she doesn't ask me for sh*t for the kids, that she does it on her own without my help and that I need to stay the f*ck out of her life. I tell her that I take care of my kids. When they are with me.
"And I take care of them when they are with ME" she says back.

We end up going back and forth about doing the right thing. That D11 told me how she said that she would never lie to her and that she doesn't have a boyfriend blah blah. She says she never said that. Again, back and forth on stuff. Tom is going to be in her life. I tell her I don't care about that. I care about him not being in my girls life.

I tell her about being truthful. We say something about what the kids know and that if I end up telling them, that then she'll just have to deal with that. She doesn't want to live a lie anymore. I tell her that she needs to. She questioned me on my remark.

Then I questioned it myself.

"When the divorce is final, he MAY BE part of thier lives."
"If that day comes then fine. But he is not going to be in their lives right now!"

She talks about how she told D11 how I take care of myself now, how I'm buying things for myself. How the kids and I have gotten closer. This led into a different type of discussion. I tell her that some HAS come out of this. She agrees. I end up discussing realizations. Past discussions we had. I just want to do the right thing and that I just expect her to do the same. She says that she finally realized that her being unhappy all along was the result of herself making herself unhappy. Now she is independent and happy. I tell her how we relied on each other too much for our happiness. It was wrong to do. She agreed.

Slowly, our conversation turned a bit. I tell her that I remain strong and that I'm not going to apologize for how I feel. I tell her that the God that we believe in is a God of hope and that I will always hold onto that. No matter what happens. She says she tries to be civil, but we probably cant be friends. I tell her how I have struggled with wanting to be her friend. But that I cant. I say that I know she is wanting to be friends but that how can a friend do to another friend what she did to me.

She says that we both made mistakes. I agreed. She says she can take all the blame, but that she knows deep down that it wasn't just her. I agree with her and that I have always taken my share of responsibility for us. It wasn't just her, but that I won't take responsibility for what she did.

We talk about how I found myself again. How I have gotten my friends again. That I'm not a hermit anymore. That I'm much more social. I let her know that I have ALWAYS been social. I let her know that I have realized so much. How life got to us. We let it. That our lives changed so much when we brought nephew into our house. She says that I can't blame him. I tell her I don't blame him. Not his fault, but the situation started it all. That I realized how I changed. She agrees and that I pushed her away. I tell her that I take responsibility. That I DID change.

I can hear her cell phone ringing. I give a sigh. Funny thing is, so does she. A little bit later, she tells me to hold on. She clicks her phone over. A couple minutes later, she is back.
"Hello?" she says.
"Yeah?"
"Oh."

I continue. I tell her how she knows me better than anyone and that no matter what she tries to say, I know HER better than anyone.
I remind her that I told her long ago that I wanted to be absolutely sure that we tried everything we could. Our family deserved that. How we have something in both of us. Deep down we know how we feel about each other. She says she doesn't feel that way about me anymore. I tell her that she pushes it out. She chuckles at that comment. She lets me know that I will hold a special place in her heart. We've been through too much together, but she doesn't feel that way about me anymore.

I tell her that she knows me.
She says that I am only going to get hurt. I let her know that that is probably true. I tell her that hurt is actually not the right word. She throws out hate, anger, numbness? I say that I have gotten over ALL those emotions. That I don't know what it is now. I just have to see it through.

There were so many more things said. I just can't recall it all right now. She says she is done and needs to go get something to eat. She is starving.

Some how we talk about S14 and his dad. THAT situation. We talk about her ex and a discussion they had about S14 and his moving out and child support and so on. Another 20 minute discussion. Talking.....friendly. I discuss D7. How she was feeling. We talk about her for another 10 minutes. We talk about what the plan for tomorrow with me and the girls. How D11 wants to go see a movie with a new friend of hers. She tells me how she has to work on Saturday all day and then she has to go on a sponsored walk or something. Something for work. Not her choice.

By this time, I'm tired.
"Go get yourself something to eat. I'm tired. Gonna try to get some sleep tonight." I tell her.
"Its been a long day." she says.
"Yes it has been."
"hahaha."
???????
"Sorry, I had turned on the tv and an old episode of "Sex and the City" is on." How one of the girls had just fallen into some mud or a pool or something.

I tell her, "Okay, well you have a good night." Why did I say that?

"Ok. You too. I set my alarm. I'll try to call the girls in the morning. When they're not here, I try to sleep in if I can."
"Okay. Bye." I say.
"Goodnight. Bye." she tells me.

I tell her goodnight too and hang up.

I'm drained. I've rambled a lot, probably.
And she is just too gone, I think. Doesn't she sound like it?

I CAN'T keep OM from my kids. She still hasn't filed. No paperwork done. If she does divorce me, he will be in the picture.

But we're not there yet. It ain't over till its over?

I just don't know. It sounds like it is to me.

[kerrysal]

Hopeful4her...

Lurking again Wow...I applaud you for what you did w/the OM...that shows you are willing to continue to stand and how SAD the kids are getting the view that marriage is 'just a piece of paper'...

I'm not sure you are powerless. Tell her you are going to inquire of the courts for them to appoint a guardian ad litum (sp?) for the kids. That clearly having another man in their life while she is still married is NOT in their best interests and is affecting them emotionally-severely. Personally, at this point, I don't think you have anything to lose. She is stubborn, very stubborn...and is being beyond selfish in justifying this mess to the kids. Tell her he threatened you, you have the texts ...let her see that this jerk is not worth it.....if your state is an 'at fault' state for divorce, find the state website, copy the part about filing on grounds of adultery and how it can affect custody, child support, etc. and FORWARD it to her...

God, let me tell you...if my ex had fought 1/2 as hard as you did, he would have had a good chance. And there was no OP in our situation. You are a strong man, your integrity is awesome...I hope you know, whatever way this goes, your kids will recognize all you have done & respect you SO much for it...very sad your wife is willing to sacrifice her self-respect for a POS.

Stay strong, friend..

Kerry

[whatdidido]

h4h,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. You handled everything well. Your comments were NOT immature, her actions and her OM's comments and actions are immature. DOn't worry about anything you did.

You said:I think I bring the drama about to myself. I just can't face the reality of her moving on living happy without me.

No, YOU don't bring the drama. SHE did. You are not "facing reality" because nothing is done yet.

Your poor kids. I'm worried about them. It's time for some counseling. Your W has been loading a pile of crap in their heads and you need a christian counselor (get a pro marriage one, too) to help get things out. It's time to tell the older kids the truth as well, I believe. She doesn't seem to mind anyway. Be prepared. She will twist it into "God's plan for her". Make sure to tell them with a counselor present. Doesn't she see how they miss you guys when you're not together? The crying. Feel free to remind her. She SHOULD feel guilty. And what's up with her telling them they can come home to her early...that's YOUR time. They are sad and crying because of the mess she made. You remind her that. No, you are NOT going to be happy that she cheated on you and is leaving the marriage without even trying and you are NOT going to pretend you are. The kids will see this emotion, they will NOT see fakeness from YOU. Stay strong. This will be hard.

Also, don't take to heart the comment that she just doesn't feel that way about you anymore. I can't tell you how many times I said that to my H. It's standard after having an affair. It justifies it in the wayward mind (What can I do? I don't love him. I never did. God would want me to be happy.).

It's all so sad. It'd be good for you to see that movie. You will see yourself in it and have some peace. In the movie, the W has to make the choice to come back just like your wife will. You are thinking she won't...that she is too happy in her new life....that you two are too far gone.....but, like you said, with God all things are possible. Put your life in His hands.

((((((((((((((((h4h)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[hopeful4her]

kerrysal, thank you for your thoughts.

Texas is a "no fault" state. Affairs do not matter here. I know that if there was no OM, I WOULD have a chance. Her having an OM changes everything. I could have had respect for her if she was searching for her independence. Without someone else. Maybe. To me, her independence is false.

She HAS sacrificed her self respect. It is sad to see it.

[hopeful4her]

beej, towards the end, I started to talk to her about reacting. I had mentioned how I always try to keep it civil with her. A friendly tone, but that she is up and down. Up and down. She was quiet for a minute and said "Isn't that how I've always been?"
I agreed with her. "Yes. That's just you."

At the end, we were talking and I mentioned that I lost my temper, but that were humans. She agreed and said that it happens to all of us. I told her that I was also a man and reacted that way. She said she knew.

Like I said, we spoke on a lot of things. I'm sure they'll come to me the more I think about it or post.

I'm not sure I can keep up my fight. I'm going to get to that place again. She is right. I am only hurting myself.

The conversation ended like they almost always do. A kind of peace. If she were here in person, we may have even hugged.

I just don't think she has it in her right now. I told you...I could be looking at years down the road. Not sure I can actually make it that long.

And I don't take what she says to heart...

it STABS me in the heart.

[whatdidido]

You are hurting...I know. She loves you and gets you to a good place in the end of the conversations....I always did, too...didn't want to see my H hurt like that.....

It may not be in her right now. But, like you said, you are still married. I'm glad you are going to see the movie (I know it seems wierd me saying this over and over) and it will help you know what to do. You WILL keep up the fight because you love her and you know what God wants. It is NOT you, it is her. SHE will have to make the choice to stop the mess. Your choice is whether to still love her or not....easy choice...she is your wife. You know...it might be good for your ss14 to come see the movie with you. Possibly d11. They would understand what you have been doing and you will teach them what is right. Get a babysitter for the little ones. THis is a good idea. SHould have thought of this before.

[karen43]

That does sound like a good idea, plus thinking about a C maybe would be good. The thing to me is that not only are they filling your kids' heads with garbage, but they're doing it to make themselves feel better and less guilty I think. I don't see how they can live with themselves!!! I think you've been handling everything great. It isn't over for you, and you are not giving up, I think that at some point your W will realize you are by far, so much the better man. Karen

[lost_in_space]

H4H

Bud - will chat more later. Pick up and dust off. Take a break if you need to. YOU need to recover and then do what you think is right. Can you do today as a Roger only day?