Trying2Live-New Post #2

[JGrind]

Hey Hope,

YOU ARE NOT A DISAPPOINTMENT! If anything, you acted out everyone of our fantasy's re OW!. AGHHH! It was entertaining reading. But seriously, I know D is hurt by all this but I am proud of her to bravely confront her father. If we cant open their eyes, maybe the kids will. I do encourage my kids to respect their father, but I also encourage them to say how they feel. They'll be stronger for it. I think your D is coming a long way. I just wish mine could open up more.

[AllW8SBF]

I'm with JGrind, Hope you acted out all our fantasy's of handling the OW. And in all honesty, I wish I was there and I'd blow her up for you.
And your daughter has your spunk too. It shows you may be pushed around but your going to push right back. And I think the best part you need to relish in, is the example you set for your daughter. She saw you stand up for herself, so she can stand up for herself when she is in a relationship.

I really need to look into GAL with dancing. I look at woman who are friendly and bubbly and wish I could do that but never know what to say or how to say it. Fear is a big thing for me. Like JGRIND I would not ML because he'd think I was doing it for him, there was always an excuse. Even now when I was instructed by my coach what to do, I feared being turned down so I didn't and in doing so I think I've made DH angrier.

Last night was not good for me either.
As I've stated dh and I live together even sleep in the same bed. And quite possibly could be together a while (so I thought) because we can't put the house up for at least 14-18 months till we pay some more of it off and the housing market gets better. Well dh was in a mood last night.
Not sure what caused it, maybe no sex for 2 weeks, no bites on the personal ad, or because we set boundaries (he can't flaunt a relationship in front of me, I said not chatting, no texting, no phone calls in my house - he agreed to the phone/texting and flaunting). Well Tues night was great and he was happy, well then he was supposed to meet a friend (girl - but just a friend), she cancelled and he said that's why he could never date her because he can't rely on her. Well then we are watching Jerry Maguire (he really says that move speaks of him) and he starts getting text messages. The dog who is laying by him trys to get off the couch because H is not paying attention to him he's texting, so I say hey he's just as bothered by you doing that as I am. And he's like what? I'm like well we set guidelines, I deserve respect and that is not being respectful. He's like fine I'll turn off the phone. He walks upstairs and says you just don't understand. I say all I want is respect, I'd give it to you if/when the roles are reversed. That seemed to set him off, he went to bed.
Then I put a note in his pocket - the night b4 dh did his radio show and he did great. Which gave me an opportunity to show some pride in him, so I did. I think I went overboard. I stuffed a note in his pocket for the next day that said something like you were so hot last night - love hot and wet. Compliment with a flirt.

He was cold and abrupt all day. When I get home I said pleasantries he was still cold. I took my shower and I get out and low and behold I hear him on the phone - setting up a date - or so I thought, I come out and he has a personals ad up, or what I can tell looks like one, and I hear him say I will call you when I'm on my way. He goes and showers and gets all spiffy. Comes down and says what's up with the note? It was nice and all but you never do that (all in a not happy tone). I said it was just a compliment, if you don't like flirty compliments I won't do it. He says, don't think your going to be able to start doing things you didn't before that I want and it will work this out. It won't, I know in my gut and in my heart you are not my life partner, no fault of your own, that's just it.
Then (I keep saying don't believe anything he says and only 50% of what he does) he says I looked up apts in Crystal Lake, there are some nice ones. I'm like that's nice. Then he says you know I looked up our housing value and did some figuring and we'd probably have to put our house up at $203 so we'd be like 20-30k short to pay off the debt. Well all these banks are getting help from the gov what makes it so we don't just hand over the keys to the house and say here you have it, you sold us this saying it was worth this amount and now it is less that, you screwed up - you deal with it. What prevents us from just declaring bankruptcy everyone else is.
I'm afraid he is going to get us into some serious trouble because of his anger.

I don't know where to go or what to do? We are not to tell our parents but my p's would want to know - I don't want to tell them because I want to just dissolve off this planet if this divorce goes through. Or at least just move somewhere else where no one knows me or knows I've been divorced, and disappointed my family. I've discussed this with them before and I know they are not disappointed but how can they be proud? How do they hold their head up when they talk to the friends and extended family and when asked about their daughters they say oh their both divorced, but their fine.

I non shaulantely said - basically to end the bad convo - don't you have some place to be, I don't want you to be late. Well that prompted him to ask, do you know who I was talking to, I said no and I'm not going to try and find out. He asks well what do you think it was, I said I can put 2 and 2 together, you had a profile up and you said you'd be there in a bit. He's like oh you go detective. He really wanted to dwell on that and at one point stared at me for a while so I said, why are you just staring at me, and he said I thought maybe if I stare at you long enough I'll come up with answer. He continues to say that the last 3 months have been the worst for him.

I feel like (and I think my coach today will say) he was hoping I'd stop his hurt, come up to him and touch him, maybe say its not over we can work on this. That he didn't want to go where he was going, he wanted to stay and he wanted me to make him. And just like all the other times he needed me I was just his friend.

You know where he went - I know I'm not supposed to find out but I looked when he was in the shower. He went to see an escort!
That's what he meant by it's been 2 weeks. It was 2 weeks since we had sex. And I'm thinking he must not have gotten a response to his personal or he'd hold out.

BUTTTTT, he also said that things need to change if we are going to cohabitate. He will treat me as a friend and give me respect as a friend, but he will make phone calls and chat, and text. And we need to buy a new mattress for the other bed and if he has to for his own sanity he will sleep in the other room.

Does any of this sound positive to you? Does any of this sound like I'm making leeway?

I know when he came home from his escort, he was happier, had food, and was talking alot - to himself, and when he finished eating and I didn't come watch tv with him, he went up to the computer. It sounded as though he was typing a letter vs chatting, but not sure.

So Hope, I'm right with you, I think there is no comeback from this, he insists I can't do anything to change things. Anything I do he will see it as I'm trying to get back with him, not changes for my own good, even though they are for me, but they'd benefit him or ANY other man that would come into my life. So it's a double win.

Oh I spent the time he was gone, trying to see what was out there for me as far as men's personals - and of course my husband came up as a possibility.

Please T2L speak your mind to me, nothing is too personal. And I will let you know if you over step but I doubt you will. Yell at me discipline me do whatever I need it.
I was not molested or anything as a child. Maybe a tiny bit of me grew up that sex was wrong, but I don't think enough to cause me to not be able to release when I'm intimate.

See I really been thinking about this, and like most of us we are mad that the blame "seems" to fall strictly on us. But you know part of my self worth dies because in bed and at other times dh never gave me any positive feedback. And when I'd say you need to tell me if you like this, he's like you should just know, everyone else does - basically making me feel since I don't know that I don't know what I'm doing - hurting my confidence and self worth.
I told him once I wish we'd tape our sex so he could see there is no expression on his face. Now if I said that he'd say that's because you don't do it for me.

If I don't do it for him, who could I do it for? See how self worth is CRUSHED!

[AllW8SBF]

oh here is both my h and my horoscrope for today: Nothing good here either.

sagittarius (Nov 22 - Dec 21)

The Sun's entry into your 12th House of Imagination may stimulate your fantasies over the weeks ahead, yet manifesting these dreams poses a higher degree of difficulty. Oddly enough, focusing too much on making anything happen can actually delay it now. You'll need to discover the right amount of force to apply to any situation. Remember, though, these answers come from within.

[Trying2live]

AAW8,
I can see how yes your self worth could be affected by the lack of feed back. I thought of this, men love when they can see that we are enjoying ourselves, so possibly another way you might be able to look at this is, hey it's great to ask, oh do you like this or that, but since he's power tripping to help out his ego, just enjoy yourself and get that performance pressure off yourself. He may like it better that you are enjoying your self and if he doesn't who cares you had a great time! LOL

I can def hear that you H has some self esteem issues himself. And that's a bunch of crap that you should know everyone else does LMAO LMAO! Hello everyone is different, and what 1 person may like another may not and that's what communication is for. It's like he needed to put that dig into you for some reason. He may in his eyes view you as successful and him self as not.

Hey I see nothing wrong with the note you put in the pocket. I sent my H a dirty text which he thought was funny at 1st until he didn't know who sent it to me. LOL Then he says I thought you didn't like those, I respond how would you know you never sent me any. Stay on your with witty responses.

I think he's thinking about the note. You can always say something like, well life's too short to not flirt and besides I did think you were Hot I just thought you should know and walk off laughing. My H last weekend tried to engage me in a debate, I didn't respond. I also have pre-set answers that I can shoot out if I can't figure out what to say. Remember H's can engage in negative things to meet emotional needs. If they argue with us it can still meet an emotional need and in their mind justify their actions. Anyways my preset answers are, "awe you're funny" and I walk away laughing or "awweeeee" and walk off laughing.
YES! Go to the dance class, I'm glad your thinking about it.

Concentrate on you! GAL find that dance class. I think all things are possible with God, but I really feel you need to get your self in a strong position of self worth, regardless of what feedback he gives. H can sense this area that is not strengthened and it's like he goes right for it. Having you in such a place of confidence and self worth he won't know where to go at you.

This book is solution based, so I really hear you want to be more out going. What is 1 thing you can do in the next week that can get you closer to that person you already see yourself as? Find 1 thing and do it. This is GAL'ing and 180'ing. There is no time like the present! Don't wait, you've waited long enough. This is the season for you, a lot of attention has been put on H and it sounds like for a while and he feeds on that. I think he even creates interactions to get it. Have you got the Surviving An Affair book yet? IT talks a lot about emotional needs. Yes you want to meet them but in a positive way and H is stuck in a pattern of getting them met negatively. Get the book if you can.

Remember H is in the fog, you are correct about how much to listen to and to not listen to. Water off a ducks back. If you don't know how to respond, laugh and say awe your funny and walk away.

Don't worry about the horoscopes, seek God and find out his perspective for your life. He puts it inside each of our hearts and all we need to do is follow what we see in our hearts. So you see God wants you more outgoing and confident He put that picture of it in your heart. He'll get you there if you step out and do it! He is well able to do that if you step out in faith and give him something to work with, make sense? Time for you and it's not selfish.
Don't worry about what the parents think. I'm sure they love their daughter unconditionally and that's not a weight for you to bare right now. Its very sweet of you to be concerned about your parents, but can you see how your putting yourself in a 2nd position here too? I in no means be a poop head but it's time for you to care for yourself and value your self and all the other pieces will fall into place better.

Agenda, find 1 thing you can do to get to that place you see yourself as more outgoing, laugh laugh laugh, have preset answer if H tries to engage, be flirty-I'm proud of you, you did something different and that's what matters not what his response was-keep it up, pamper yourself- go get manicure or pedicure, massage, different hair style etc. Ya know what I did to feel pretty and girly is I went and bought undies at Fredrick's, You don't need a man to be next to you to be able to do this, start building your self up. Positions of confidence and strength are sexy and attractive, and I don't mean domineering. Can you do some of these things over the next week?

[TxMomw/2girls]

so much to catch up on....

I'm out of town tomorrow thru Sunday so I will be off and try to catch up Monday...

I did the 180, playing it nice and meeting needs etc....and it was working for the first few weeks he was out of the house.. then after this past weekend after we went to the fair he pull the crap he pulled.. I'll copy my thread and post it here... so this week I'm a little dark... it's been two months exactly today and a month out of the house... so I think for me I tried the nice route too soon... I'm too hurt, negative etc... I'm backing up right now this week and next week and then we'll see how I feel then.. I keep hanging on to the words he gave me Sunday... I need to let it go but gosh...

I'm leaving our letters and cards sitting in the office this weekend maybe he'll see them and read them... not obvious place but where he'd see them if he gets on the computer.

T2L you are doing great... meeting those needs ... keep it up..

Ok here is my post from my thread:

H came over Sat. to watch girls and then we went to state fair... had a good time ... right when we got home I left to go see movie and then to friends house.. I get home about 12:30am he comes down stairs and says..

H " I think I might leave"
Me - " thought you had committed to staying until Sunday morning help with girls" I said I could use the break as I am the one doing it all so couple of nights/mornings would help
H - said fine but he doesn't feel comfortable here...
Me- I said if I had known that I could have made arrangments to stay out
I then asked is someone making you feel uncomfortable...
H -said no
he decided to stay...

In the morning I slept in ... when I woke I said I was going to church... he asked if I was taking the girls and I said I guess so since you needed to leave... He said he was thinking of going to church too - not with us.. (never is he the one to suggest church)

After I'm ready and he is dressed I started figuring out he must be going with OW..(he was in bathroom texting her) I asked him are you going by yourself? He said he didn't know.. that set me off as he couldn't answer the question.. He was going to go to the church that he and I went too the whole time we dated and we got married in... couldn't believe it. He said she is Catholic too...

I told him to get out and I broke down crying... How can God ( or evil) bring these two together and they think they can go to church hand in hand ...

I text him this
ME : You leave your kids and family to go to church and you meet the women you are having an affair with to go to church with her? You can separate your two lives that easily?

H reply: It is not that, it's more that I don't want to or feel like being around you that much... our marriage life is over being a Dad will always be.

Me: I'm sorry you feel this way..

I know the whole believe half of what you hear crap... but he seems so done.. can't understand how overnight he seems to even lost the slightest feeling of friendship or caring ... just poof it's gone... I can think of endless loving things he has done for me the past 4-6 months and 3 months now into an affair it is just wiped clean...

T2L - thoughts???


Hope - you did so good... I would have lost it too ... right on!!! you and I are too fresh... H just moved out and it is hard... I would create an email account anonymously and send it to someone in the office acting like you are another employee and start the rumor...

[hope3343]

Hi all, well it is another day.

T2L and JGrind and all the others, first thank you for being a good friend and not making judgements. I took your advice today about exposure/ethics. As you know I sent a meeting notice to OW with subject line "ethics awareness", she opened it this morning. I know she was worried I would show up at her desk at 10:30...so at 10:15 I called her at her desk. I said you know who this is -- and she said yes. I told her that I have wanted to talk to her both as woman to woman and employee to employee. I asked if she would listen, she said yes.

I told her my H and myself had problems in our marriage but it had nothing to do with you at all till you involved yourself in our M. I will not make any excuses to you about what is private.

Then I started with ethical issues. I said you do understand that their are at least 2 other people (not really) that know about this and it has already been mentioned that you are on overtime and taking extremely long lunches and spending much time making personal calls on your cell phone. How does your boss (my H) justify paying you overtime. She said I dont know who is saying that but it is not true but she was nervous. Also did you realize that my H, your boss, was the most ethical man I ever knew and for him to have an affair with his direct report
will destroy him. Do you want to have both of you lose your jobs. I won't have to do a thing because both of you have gotten careless and others are watching BUT if I get called in on this I will not lie and just H's business cell phone records will condemn you both. Do you understand this. Are you listening -- yes.

Then OW says you have all of this wrong I don't know what you are talking about. (I think she was paranoid that I was recording this), so I said I am not recording this don't worry I have plenty of information about your A that I do not need a recorded conversation. Let her wonder about that.

Now as far as the A with your boss, my husband. I want you to know what your A has done to our family. This has been destroying my family. My children despise you. You can wear all of your holy medals and have a cross on your car mirror, but what are you praying for? That you will end up with my husband. You are praying for the wrong thing. You cannot ask God to bless an unholy union. But do you know that my daughter and I pray for you every day. We pray that you will realize your mistake and leave my H and find a man that is free to love you and be able to take you out without hiding in shame. This is what we pray for. Because even though my H was not happy, I have never saw him look worse than these past months and it is because of this dirty secret with you. H was always a good father and always taught his children to be honest and truthful and now his children have no respect because you have helped make him into a liar. The best thing you can do for H is to leave him and let him get his life sorted out with or without me. But I want you to know that I am standing for my marriage. My C told me that H has a choice and right now H has chosen not to work on his M.
But I know 6-8 months ago my H used to poke fun about all of your plastic surgery, that you had a butt implant and that he used to say you were not smart and I actually defended you. And look what happens H chose you. Free will so I know that free will can happen again. Then OW says (po'd) you have this all wrong, so I say STOP we both know you are lying so stop that nonsense, I am not looking for affirmation I am letting you know what impact you have had on all of this. If I had this all wrong why would you be hiding in your boss' bedroom closet at 8:30 at night-- so OW says I was not there, so I said well that's funny because your car was hidden behind the other building and we took plenty of pictures to add to the rest of the collection, you fool noone.

Finally, maybe you should know what you are getting into.
(she is a gold digger) H has over $40K in credit/car payment debt by himself, so all those nice things he has bought for you are not even paid for yet and H is only making minimum payments. As far as the big windfall you think H will get from a D well our 401K have dropped into the toilet and H will maybe get $5-$10K out of that maybe less (not even enough to pay a quarter of his bills) and our house after RE commission and closing we might make $10K each -- in 3 years since I am staying there. H has also had depression way before he met me so don't think it is because of my M. And I saw the bar set up and I know that you like to party and drink but my H has had serious issues with alcohol in the past and he recently told me that he didn't have a drinking problem but I made him think there was a problem all these years, but I am sure you are starting to experience all the fun with that.
Then I want you to be clear on this in case H did not mention it. This will NOT be a 60 day mediated Tx divorce. I will retain my own Atty and this will be a fault divorce and you will be named in the case for adultery. I have told H this twice and I will stand by that decision.
And if all this sordid mess makes my H take a job in another state -- shame on you because I know my H would not be able to live without contacting or having a relationship with his kids. This is what you have commited against our family. Does your grown children and mother know you are dating a M man and your boss at that? What would they think especially our mother and I know how to contact them. Then I asked what about Boyfriend, where is he (I think sometimes he might still be in the picture), I know he works in .... I sure would like to talk to him about his GF going out with my H. OW was dead silent. I said are you there? She said yes. I said good I am so done, I am hanging up now.

I then called and left a msg for H, saying I want you to know I contact OW and got to express what I felt about this unadmitted A. It is out in the open now and now you have to deal with whatever happens.

NOW I am done. If H does not serve me with D papers, maybe there is some chance, otherwise I stay detached for a bit because I think OW/H need to have each other and either they will both get depressed or this will drive them more together. The biggest factor is D15 will have NC and oldest D is coming in next month for Thanksgiving. I know the impact that will have on H.

My original bomb was 7/27 so it has not been 3 months as of yet. I think A started in June. I feel I have gotten my craziness out of my system especially that OW works here.

goal: stay connected to D's and continue to GAL for myself. I did manage to go to gym for 35 minutes with all of this going on.

Will respond to other posts later.

[faithrunner]

Hope, I just responded to you on my thread:)

faith

[AllW8SBF]

TXMom, I wish I could give you a hug. You don't deserve this and some how some way your always expected to pull things through. God will lead us all, and there will be happy times again. Maybe even better times. I know even with my h he runs so hot and cold and usually its when he's not getting what he wants all around. What about us, why can't we get what we want?

Have a good weekend and try not to think of this crap. Rest and recharge, as someone put it, your body is running a marathon with all this crap and you need to take care of it. So try and do that.

T2L I've decided - hope this counts as GAL and gaining confidence, I may embellish a bit, but only you girls will know this. I'm going to go to a hip hop dance class at my gym tomorrow (I won't be talking to anyone you just walk in at designated time and wait for it to start and follow instruction.- I don't have to pay it's included in my membership.

Then I'm prepping myself for some not so happy stuff next week.

I'm taking Friday off - planned long ago - and I will probably get a massage, nails and a hair cut. Can't afford it but I'll find a way. Then dh got tickets to the blackhawks game and up until his attitude change a few days ago he still wanted me to go, asked me last weekend. I fear he will change his mind and either sell them or take someone else. If that happens I'll be like no biggy, I'll fake a phone call and I'm going out - probably to my p's but I will make him think it's more.
This weekend I will go to my p's and tell him I'm going to haunted houses - sis and her friend did this last weekend so don't have anyone to do it with this weekend but he doesn't know that.
Then I'm going to start going out during the week, dress up, do my hair, and I will probably just go to the book store but he won't know that. Then I'm going to start going roller skating. And I'll go to some movies on my own. Boy I wish you girls lived close we could get together. We'd have a blast.

I'm going to see what my church has going on and get involved there.

And of course I will still be going to the gym, but I've got some options and OH a girl here at work (don't really like her - more can't trust her) asked if I ever want to go out with her to this bar that plays cool music let her know. I will probably do that and that will be a little step on my part for opening up and talking to people.

So what you think, we'll see how he reacts to all that. Coach says we have some rapid swings, when I go one way he goes the other and vice versa. But she says it sounds like he's trying to convince himself he's over us, but is lost and confused. He seems to be wanting me to take initiative to address him but again I roll it off.

Like you said T2L I need to get my pre expressions in to memory.
1. When not sure he seems like he wants contact, touch his arm and say hey what's up half laughing.
2. I'm sorry you feel that way when he says something negative.

The second one addresses his feelings with out dismissing or really even validating but subliminally helps me to not take his words or actions personally. And the first one allows me to test the water.

Now hopefully I can pull it off.

[TxMomw/2girls]

Hope.

WOW... you rock... I would only dream of telling my H's OW off... good for you... gosh that must feel good... they don't think about the kids or anyone but themselves....

proud of you... I will read the rest and respond later

[hope3343]

Hi Allw, Looks like you put a good GAL plan together. Like myself, you need to stop looking at H for the reassurances that we look for. Confidence is a good thing. Now just about your business and step back and let H observe your actions for awhile.

TxMom....You know I feel your pain as being relative newbies to this shock. I know it hurts about H going to church with OW. We both need to stop asking questions. Of course it will be easier for me since I have detached for a bit and see what happens after all of this exposure. Reactive action is not always good but I was at the breaking point that H and OW could just flaunt this and thinking I had to take it. Hopefully they will have a few sleepless nights like I had. It is also tough with the holidays upon us. I am just sitting back now and see what happens. One side of me does not want H to spend with OW, but I have no control. If that is what H is still fogged up about he might realize how much his real family means. Detach, I would not leave those letters out because H will know that you left them purposely. My 180 is that I am the one that will call after confrontation and I chose to do nothing.

T2L, thank the Mighty Lord for your thread. You have come so far, (look back to your original posts) and I could see us evolving in that direction also. I have been going to rejoice minitries and I look at Charlene standing for all that time. I give her credit. Even after all this pain and hurt I do want to reconcile my M and hope that OW does not push for D now. The only time I really surprised her was when I said I was praying for her. It took her off guard. I never cusse or threatened or cried, I still feel I maintained my dignity in a non DB way of course. Taking my D to soccer practice tonight (something H does), she also has a game on Sunday. One step at a time. My only true regret is that I did not make it to the BR closet to open that door just to see OW expression. Oh well.