I have been reading your threads, just not posting on them. You have taken an amazing ride and continue to make great strides forward. I am happy you are liking yourself better.
Low self-esteem seems to cause numerous problems. That is part of my W's personal problems. Now I am just waiting to see if she is going to stay unclouded.
Keeping working hard and enjoy the rewards of your hard work. Take care of yourself, you are a special woman.
A warrior does not give up on what he loves, he finds the love in what he does
Thank you, Yenko. You said some very kind words. I still bristle when people say things like that a bit...the guilt is there and I still realize that I haven't fully forgiven myself. Calling me special made smile, though. Thank you for that. There may be ups and downs with your W....emotions are so wild at that time. I hope she stays on the married path.
Thank you, h4h, but don't sell yourself short. As you know, someone can tell you something til you're blue in the face, but unless they want to do it, they won't. You want to save your marriage. You took that vow seriously. You're choosing to love your wife. That's all you. (((((((((((((((((((((((h4h)))))))))))))))))))))))))
I think its more of an illusion of betterness. You really end up feeling worse overall, you get a HIT when you are with them and have sex, but then when you go back to reality here comes the crash :
I think my fundamental point is that these affairs are not the same thing evidently as a regular romantic relationship.
I have dated lots of people, and I don't ever recall having back pain, stomache aches, headaches, insomnia, or any of those symptoms.
All these people claim they are in love, but I really think this is a very different animal. I find it offensive to hear them even dsscribe what they are feeling and doing as love. Its akin to a stalker insisting he is in love with the object of his obsession.
Its not love, its a sickness and has physical evidence and symptoms...they just can't see them
That is an interesting concept of all the physical symptoms of an A. Now that I look back and see some of the physical complaints my W has made over time.
Amen, Winnie! I love your analogy! My H has all those symptoms, and I have even noticed his mood goes south when he talks about his work, school, anything having to do with his world. Part of the depressed feelings I guess.
I'm going to save your post to remind me of the difference btw their relationship and a true relationship:)
Me:33, H:34 T10, M8 S4,S3,S9m ILYBINILWY 11/07 Separation 1 2/08-8/08 Back Home 8/08-10/08 Separation 2 10/08- Too many bombs to count:(
I haven't collected offical data on this or not. But I do find most descriptions of affair cases include some or all of these physical symptoms.
The precise point is the distinction between a romantic experience and an affair.
The former is a healthy activity to engage in, whereas the latter is not.
The latter is unhealthy due to the damage they bring to themselves and their abandonded spouses. Many abandoned spouses report panic attacks, anxiety, depression, weight loss, headaches, nightmares, even ulcers.
Hollywood hardly EVER portrays affairs with this health issue in the forefront or even at all...it just doesn't sell on the screen usually. Unfaithful is the only film I have seen that to my mind adequately captures the love affair as an addictive and destructive behavior. Many counsellors compare it to a drug addiction, but in my opinion its more akin to gambling.
There is no romanticization of drug addiction. Drug abuse is almost universally accepted as destructive. Affairs are often dealt with caution because they arrive disguised as one of the worlds most beautiful events - love. Gambling similarly is romanticized and celebrated as "good fun" and an entertainment.
I really would like to write a paper contrasting the two. I have yet to see a good paper that does this at all. It would be great to find one.
I am thoroughly convinced there is a powerful disctinction, I just haven't found a good resource that discusses that at length, its usually just bits and pieces with nothing collected.
This more than anything might change the general public view of affairs as a horrible thing to get into...Hollyword ants people to think they are beautiful or funny. Makes me want to vomit.
The subject of comparing affairs to gambling and drug addiction are documented in the description of cluster b personality disorders as well.
For my W, she's a recovering alcoholic and has relapsed to a degree; she loves to gamble; cannot manage money; has no impulse control; and seems to have a sexual addiction. She cannot seem to make the connection that love is not sex.
After she dropped the bomb, I had her texting restricted. The restriction hit at 1:20 am while she was at some club. During the heated convo (she was the only one heated) she mentioned that she loved me and I told her that I loved her; but immediately she went into a diatribe about how she didn't want sex with me. I told her my love wasn't about sex; it was care and devotion. That's not the only time she's said that.
I really think that in some people there is not capacity to feel nor give "true" love. For my W, it's a feeling and the act of sex.
Well, oftentimes particularly with love, you have to experience the act and feeling to understand it. Poetry and music is enjoyable but does not do the experience justice.
The stage one romantic love vs stage 2 committed long term love is the difference here. Until she makes it to stage two and experiences that fully and commits to reciprocating, she will continue to think "love" is just stage 1 romantic love.
What's worse, in my opinion an affair just presents the illusion of stage 1 romantic love.
Your spouse and mine are both doubly confused, first with the full and rich understanding of all love has to offer, and second with the idea that an addictive sex affair is any kind of love at all.
I believe she and most humans have he capacity, it is a matter of them having the impulse control to push themselves into a lifestyle where they can experience and understand love in its full flavour.
She's hooked on coffee and doesnt' realise that fruit juices not only exist but are also a lot healthier for you.
She CAN drink the fruit juice. Its a matter of willingness.
hey Winnie, very good observations you make. I just don't know if she will ever come to accept Stage 2 love; at least not with me. She may some time down the road when she discovers that what she's searching for doesn't last. Or when her outward youth and beauty start to fade.
