Trying2Live-New Post #2

[JGrind]

Please help

D11 has lashed anger toward me 2nd day in row. Yells , says she hates me, I am rude and evil. Very minor things set her off. She says she feels like killing herself.

Warned H as he was on the way here to visit. He scolded her for being hurtful and disrespectful toward me. Says it is all about her not getting her way. Told me I needed to get her to doctor. I stewed listening to this and lost my cool. I didnt yell, but I was upset asking why he could blame this on her just not getting her way and accuse of being hurtful and disrespectful when he has hurt and disrespected them. Of course I brought up the A. He went on defense and says, so Im the one to blame for all this! I brought up his behavior with OW in front of them and her sleeping in his bed with him when D11 walked into his room that night. H said its not like that- that was a long time ago and the kids have me 100% when theyre with me.I said no Ive taken blame but you had choices to make and Im not to blame for those choices and their effect on this family. H says kids "feed " off me. And I said, you ask any of these kids, I have been a rock through this, but I do not deserve and will not tolerate this treatment from D11. H admits he "went about this the wrong way" and I said well its selfish! and stormed off.
Bad bad DB moment.

H had to leave for meeting as D11 continued her rage. She calmed down for awhile, but started again and I couldnt take it anymore. Had D11 call H. Then I called. Asked him please this has been really tough yesterday and today, please take them tonight and take off work tommorrow. I need your help. I can only be strong so much. Its so easy for you - you can just leave. Please. I cried . He was quiet on the other end. I said Im sorry for getting onto you earlier,(I forgot to apologize with a WE) but Im just worried about these kids. He says he is too but cannot take off work tommorrow. Only half day. I was speechless- he just chose his job and OW(I know she is there tonight) over his kids. I continued to cry and said Id let him go. He says OK and hangs up without a good- bye. WHY WHY! That was more hurtful than hearing "I dont love you anymore".

I think Im done. I have no more hope.

[Trying2live]

I have to say I love the transparency of the thread, you guys always feel free to speak your mind even if you don't agree. okie dokie!

Hope3343,
YOU GO GURL!!! I'm loving the nonchalant responses and unavailability....purrrfeecct! Your still being sweet offering the soup or whatever but not-available. That is so confident I am feeling it really! You H must be wondering in. It feels good doesn't it. Not begging or talking about the relationship but its confidence that speaks a thousand words, like hey I'm gonna make it with you or with out you but hopefully with you. I like it keep it up, and GAL. Still doing the gym yoga thing? Don't neglect it. Remember also, weight training is wonderful. We actually lose bone density as we get older and guess what weight lifting helps to stop that, plus nothing like firm arms and buns so keep it up.

Marisol, LOL I'm loving the thread this is good stuff. Ok do not quote me alright gurlz! This is opinion only only only.
1st off do not feel bad about the encounter with walkaway H, ok a girl has needs to.
At this point my H has been gone almost 6 months! Help me Lord Jesus LMAO! I'm gonna be honest, I'd use him and boot him out the door-in the nicest way of course LOLOLOLOL.

But I'm sorry I AM flirting with my H right now and I hope he cheats on her with me. He's my H at this point! And when I go into Plan B if he has then you can be sure I'm gonna mention it to her when I tell her I'm still standing for my marriage.

Ladies I don't mean to get disgusting or behave less than a lady for the most part but infidelity must be treated as a beast that needs to be slain. H's highest emotional need per the book Surviving An Affair is guess what- sexual. Well I can't quite meet that need so I'm flirting hard. And then I say nothing for a few days.
As far as the sexual encounter with YOUR H way I will look at it for me personally(until I'm in Plan B) is this is wayward sex and not sex with your spouse(so be sure your protected). Yes he is going to be attracted to you, of course he married you. But as much as possible stay confident, some what detached. When he called the 2nd time I would have said hey no problem, can I call you back I'm going out with some friends or something like you are GAL. That would totally rock him, like well why isn't she crying and why is she going out?

I have a friend who is in recovery, she told me her H said that part of the reason he did come back is because of her willingness to do that. BUT BUT BUT if you do decide to go that route, expect nothing in return and view it as wayward spouse sex and not sex with your H and means to an end. Make sense?

I would detach or be unavailable for a few days like it's totally unaffected you and you are GAL and a big Life! He needs to feel, see and hear that you are going to make it.

That's confidence and confidence is so attractive. Asking about the future, OW, questioning is not. Make sense? You can bet that the OW are happy, confident and don't ask about the relationship. Always remember that's the image you are competing with.

So ask away guys. Ok wait til you guys here this. I think I might of did a bad thing, I'm not sure. I'm trying not commit and love busters (per the Surviving an Affair book). I think I did one today doggone it!

Transparency here we come welcome to my life girls. Ok so I send this kinda dirty text joke to H as a flirt. It wasn't to bad I mean I've heard some bad ones this one wasn't too bad.

Ok so he reads it and this is the convo:
H says "Nice where did you get that?"

I say, "From a friend"

H says, "Who? I thought you didn't like dirty jokes"

I say," you don't know em, I met em at a salsa club and you never sent me any dirty jokes anyways, I just thought you would think it was funny"

Then H says," NO stupid, I don't think a lot of those jokes are funny"

I say, " If I offended you I didn't mean to I just thought you would think it was funny"

H say, "Not offended, just not funny"

So then I changed the subject to the kids.

Okay I lied, my girlfriend sent it to me and not someone at the salsa club. you guys know I started salsa lessons as my GAL. I'm wondering if I Should have just said it was my girlfriend? I he jealous?

But ya notice how at first he says "nice where did you get that" and then as he thought someone who he didn't know sent it to me it changed. I was probably wrong to lie huh. I just didn't feel like telling him it was my girlfriend.

Well this is a hilarious night. It's so not funny(LOL) cuz I'm not supposed commit any love busters but there's always tomorrow....remember there is always tomorrow.

[hope3343]

{{{{{JGrind}}}}}} I am sooo sorry -- I feel your pain in this. It really snowballed.
First D11 - has she gotten her period yet? It could be hormonal? My D got her period at 10. That is something to consider. I know you mentioned she had anger issues, if it continues get her into therapy or a kids group that deals with this.
As what happened with TxMom when her D was choking and her H did not pick up phone, it is unfortunate because they are in that MLC fog and we cannot depend on them. As hard as that is to understand and how angry it makes us -- they are not capable of being responsible with their M or their kids.
So by fighting with H only compounded your own pain by his inability. Your right you do need a break -- absolutely. is there someone who can take her overnite (family member or friend), and then do something for yourself. Let H wallow in his own guilt.
You are the one who has to decide if you are done. It is our choice when it comes down to it. You know noone here will judge you. That is why this board is such good support.
I know how terrible I feel when I got that down. I was so depressed for a few days I didn't think I could go any lower. But I did come out of it...and guess what it was because most of my support was from all of you. Let us know what you need. You know we all understand what you are going through.
You are in my prayers for peace and serenity. take care.

[hope3343]

Hi T2L, loved your post. First send us the text so we can all forward to our Hs! Might help.
Your right, if that opportunity comes with H, I think we would all grab it with gusto. lol. I think of all the times I said no and now that he is not here, I think about will I ever have an opportunity again??

I agree with the idea if you get a chance you will go for it and then tell the OW when you go dark...great.

We get great advice from this board. If I did not have this board, I think I would have blown up, not be speaking to H, hating him and at the atty. I know realize I have time. I still might end up in that atty's office but I am not going down without a battle -- In a DB way of course.

I spend 25 minutes on the phone with H tonight. He is sick as a dog. I asked if he needed orange juice, medicine anything. I reminded him how sick I was with the flu 2 weeks ago that I could not get out of bed and was dizzy. I did not remind him that when i was at my worst he was away overnight with the OW, but I am sure he remembered it and here I was offering to help him.

The amazing thing, I know it is habit but when H goes to say goodbye or even in conversation he calls me "Honey" or goodbye "hon"... okkkkkk not too frustrating.

Well I am off to continue reading "surviving an affair"...good recommendation by T2L. It makes sense. I plan on using a combination of DB and this book.

Pray for each other. I do know for our M to thrive is that God needs to be part of it. Oherwise I know it will not survive.

Take care, all

T2L, good luck at the pumpkin patch
Twin hope - hope you are doing well.
Marisol, your post gave me hope that our H's can be attracted to us again
TxMom, know you are having a difficult time but the last few days have been better for me..I KNOW they will get better for you
JGrind, Don't beat yourself up. Kids will drive you crazy and compounded with being on your own -- we are human. Tomorrow will be brighter.

[Trying2live]

Jgrind,
OMG I just read your post. {{Breathe}}1st off Please if your D11 is saying she wants to kill her self get her to Counseling or therapy NOW. I started my S9 in therapy and they say if you kids say that you need to call crisis center or get them help quickly.
No worries, you DB, tomorrow is a new day. You Daughter is hurting plain and simple, and it is the cause of our spouses. Sometimes they don't even know how to process this pain they feel. I suggest therapy or get some books to help you deal with this. I know my DD17 went through a horrible time for about a month. Try and stand your ground, what I mean is don't compensate for dad's mistakes. You still have to be mom, you're the only parent they have with reason right now.

When was discovery day for you? I'm just wondering how far you are in this.

First off, there is always hope if that's what you decide you want. No one can tell any of us when to quit or not to quit only we know our limits and the fact that we are even considering reconciliation is a noble thing.

These are the most important thing that we must remember right now are these things(it has helped me to remember these).
1. They are in the fog and when we talk to them we hear fog babble(justification, rewritten marriage history, blame, brainlessness, selfishness, etc etc).
2. Do NOT expect anything from them until the Fog lifts. I know this sounds hard, and it is, because I've been there. I know what its like to question where all the normal common sense went in my H. All normal thinking left-ALL of it. My friend said if you argue with a crazy man what does that make you? So now I expect nothing from him(except financially and if he strays there I will file for LS to secure finances for kids. I expect nothing and I don't get let down. If he wants to dig a hole with his kids by not calling or visiting then go ahead buddy. Dig away. I just tell my kids hey your dad loves you the best he can. They say yeah right how can he if he left us for her. This is my explanation to my son.
I say son you know how I ask you not to do something and you choose to disobey me. He says yes. I say son do you still love me even though you choose to do the wrong thing and hurt me. He says yes, i say then the same for dad. He loves you but right now he's doing what he wants and he doesn't care so lets just pray for him. I know its hard with the issues with children, but I think its better to have that one devoted 100% parent in their life for this transitional period than to have part of the full time parent and forcing the other. Kids can feel if someone wants to be around them or if they are doing it out of burden. Make sense?
3. Get a support system for your self quickly-My suggestion is get some friends or family to help you right now. Ask for help from those you can count on. Go out and do things with the kids. Build a support group that's there for you. Do you have one?
4. Self care-Have you GAL? You must invest in yourself right now and take of your self so you can properly care for the kids. If you are run down your not going to make it and the kids need you. Go get a pedicure or massage or something, anything. Take care of yourself. Your going to have to be a little selfish for a few hours a week that's just for you.

Yes he is choosing job and OW. Expect this. He is in the fog. Expect fog babble, selfishness. Put no expectations on H right now or your going to be let down and get weary. you need to keep your strength to be able to stand if you decide to do so.

Have you read Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley? Whether or not you decide to do the book, it has a wealth of information about Adultery, the mindset of wayward spouses and is solely written on Infidelity. Consider maybe getting this. It may help you to understand what's going on in their heads and what your up against.

Please come back on and let me know how your doing and how D11 is doing.

My H is coming tomorrow to go to the pumpkin patch but I want to hear from you so I'll sneak on.

HEY EVERYONE. I'm not sure how many of you are Christians but I am and associate Pastor and worship leader(but a normal girl just like everyone else) and I have very specific things I pray over my H and the relationship. I really believe there is power in what we declare over our spouses. Our words have power. God created the world by what? He "SAID" Let there be light. God spoke the world into existence. I believe as followers of Christ we have that same power.
Anyways I pray stuff over my H and the relationship and funny things are happening.
Who is interested in a list of what I pray over him?
Jgrind, we are with you. 1 Day at a time.

[JGrind]

hi everyone,

I needed to sneak on before bed . Kids are all in bed now, including D11. I laid in her bed with her for at least one hour. We wrote "questions and answers " to each other. It really helped her express her feelings in a calm manner.

My first question to her was "how do you feel right NOW"
She wrote back "I feel ashamed"

I wrote, "what are you ashamed of?"
she writes, "that I been bad to you and dad. and sometimes I dont feel happy about my hearing aids. I also say I want to kill myself when I get mad at my mom, but I wont do it, though I just feel lke I want to. I dont like to hurt my mom, but I keep doing it, but I cant help it very much b/c I think Im a demon"

I write, "what makes you so angry about me and dad?"
she writes "you make me angry about stuff....oh I dont know,its hard to explain, but there is a reason why I get mad at you but its hard to explain"

then she writes "how do YOU feel right now?
I write "lonely, depressed. overwhelmed and exhausted"

I write "what do you pray to God for at night when you go to bed?"
she writes "I tell him sorry for the bad things I have done to you and say my wishes that I want to make 100% on any test, and to watch over daddy"

then she writes " what do you pray for at night?"
I write "I pray for God to keep me strong and patient. I pray for my marriage. I pray for him to comfort and bless you and your brothers And I pray for daddy that he will be happy and safe. I also pray to forgive and to be forgiven" (T2L - MY little prayer list!)

she writes "how do you feel at work?"
I write "eventhough I often wish I didnt have to work, I am thankful for a good job and the ability to help heal sick babies. I also enjoy my friends at work"

I write "how do you feel at school"
she writes" I feel frustrated because we keep moving along with work, we never even stop to go by the restroom, UHH!"

AND FINALLY,
I write "what do you wish for 1 year from now?"
she writes "I wish I wont act like a demon again. I wish our family is always happy and that we wont cry again"



And with that , we cuddled , said our prayers and good night kisses. I feel blessed we didnt go to bed hurt and angry. That's all I could ask for tonight. She draws so much of my attention with her behavior, I am afraid my 2S are left out. They hold too much in. I will be scheduling individual and family counseling sessions for the kids today. hope, I agree that part of this problem is puberty. No she has not started her period yet, but she is DEFINITELY PMSing! I just know it wouldnt be this extreme if our family wasnt suffering right now, yet H barely seems to acknowledge that fact. Hope, thanks for your support. I hope your D is handling it better. Now that H has moved out, it sounds like he's still around the house quite a bit though. My H wont hardly step foot in the house anymore unless he absolutely has to. He doesnt even hardly pet the dog anymore.

T2l thank you for the encouraging post, you deserve a little in return. My hope is waning b/c sometimes Im just not sure what I want anymore. Maybe Im just as confused as H. He is SO good at turning over that blame - and so cold too. I would kill right now for any kind of touch from H. Even just a sincere smile.FYI, "IDLYA" was June 18 and he left the next day. So 4months for me. Today is 16th wedding anniversary, so this is not helping at the moment.As far as books, I have read everything I could possibly get my hands on, including DR of course. Right now I am reading "When the Vow Breaks" by Joseph Warren Kniskern. The author is a Christian atty and reluctant divorcee whose wife strayed and wanted the D. It gives a biblical perspective on D, encourages reconcilliation 1st and foremost, but if that is not possible,gives advice on coping with anger, depression and lonliness as well as caring for children, managing finances, and resolving legal issues. Some people may not want the biblical point of view which is why I mention it, but it gives a wonderful interpretation of God's plan for marriage and his view on D. I still have a way to go with the book. It is very emotional for me to read.

Again, thanks so much for being there. I know I started off strong in some of my earlier posts. Im in a bad slump emotionally right now so bear with me. One day at a time. And my song of inspiration "Jesus Take the Wheel" by C Underwood.

Good night, sweet dreams


me -36
H-38
T -21yr
M- 16yr TODAY
S11 and D11 (twins)
S14
June 18 - IDLYA
June 19 - H moved out
July 4 _ H admitted EA and asked for D
H consulted atty over 1 month ago
Praying not to be "served"

[hope3343]

Good morning, First JGrind -- glad you posted. Glad the kids are going to therapy. I woke up last night about 4 (It has been the norm) and sometimes I start to pray immediately so I don't start thinking too much of my situation and able to go back to sleep. But instead I thought of you and your kids. I think because your H seems to be coming and going at will, you as an assertive DBer need to set a schedule for visitation for the kids which includes him watching them overnight (even if it is at your house). Something reasonable every other weekend and maybe visiting 2 nights a week. In that way your kids will have structure when they will see their father and you can plan to get some "me" time. Of course he will not like being told what to do, but you can use this last incident (in a calm way) that the kids (not you) need this structure so the kids will know they can depend on him, especially your D11. Boundaries.
Good idea writing down Q&A. Good way to communicate. She sounds angry about the breakup and I know sometimes the kids will blame us because our spouse is blaming us.
Tell me about the OW -- how old, any kids is H living with her?
You have been married 16 years - I just had my 21st anniversary in June and he dropped the bomb in July. I know what a difficult day it is. Do not acknowledge it unless you talk to us about it or support. I know with the holidays around the corner it is especially tough for us. I dread telling my family back home that H will not be there for X-mas. I pray for a miracle but I know it takes time.

T2L I am VERY interested in the list you pray over your H. Have you heard of the "hedge of thorns" prayer Hosea?
I do not think it will offend anyone. I have to say with the breakup of my M it has really brought me back to God.
Take care all have a good day. k
P.S. H is in work sick --- called me and he sounded terrible. Hope he gets OW sick too.

[TxMomw/2girls]

Ladies.... heavy stuff and I'm crying JGrind for you and your kids...

T2L - please send what you pray over your H .. they could use it as I'm quite sure that I'm the only one praying for him right now.

Marisol - damn right I'd be right in the sack with my H if he wanted it...if I could let my mind be free of OW for the moment... I know it would set me back about a week or two emotionally but how I crave and want my H so bad... I had a dream last night - the first one where we were kissing and it was so real and so great... when I woke up I realized only person laying next to me was my D3 .... hang in there .... you know what you can handle ... it is interesting that our H want to be faithful to the OW now...

Hope - you did so AWESOME>.. great "as if" and detatching... so proud of you.. the more we practice this the better and easy it becomes for us... I think for any of us if our H come back we need to remember to keep things a little mysterious anyhow - to keep them on their toes...

T2L - you are doing great... I thought of sending a flirty text yesterday but I felt he'd see through it and to soon... good way to work it and act as if it came from another friend...

TwinHOpe - updates please.... how are you doing...

My thread got locked so I started a new one... "txmom - I'm still hopeful - #2 post" you can read some there or on the newcomers thread...

Ok updates on me... After my ordeal with my H not answering or calling me back after a 911 text and two calls and I laid into him pretty good - backsliding - I had made arrangements for others to watch my girls while out of town on business.. I woke up and decided that he needed to be there for the girls and I need to encourage him vs. me continuing to tell him he isn't "good enough" and "screwed up" again... my H will sit and self pitty with negative words over me being calm, nice ... I decided to send him an email with some request and appologize for my lashing out on the phone.. Here is his response"

First off I am very sorry for yesterday and instead of making excuses I will let you know that my phone will be on ring all the time from this day forward so there will be no more missed calls. You know I do care about the girls in everything they do or that happens to them. They are my first priority and will always be my first priority for ever. I will commit to calling D3 and D5months every morning and every night before they go to bed because believe it or not I miss them dearly, there is not a day that goes by that I am not thinking of them. I know that these are just words but I will prove to you and the girls that there Daddy can be counted and is there for them by my actions moving forward. It will take time to make up for the mistakes I have made but they deserve the best Dad that I can be. I will meet you in the middle on everything no questions asked. Thank you for everything you do and I really mean it.


This is more than I've gotten in long time... we had a good visit when I got home last night and I text him told him thanks and he said it was the best day and half he had had in long time...

He will be here Saturday thru Sunday morning to watch the girls and I had mentioned going to the state fair for our D3 and he said he would go... we'll see -

read my new post if you can b/c I do still struggle with being to nice and the fact the my H is a little co-dependant and still staying with OW and not getting his own furnished apt - which found but hasn't signed.

But as one of my freinds mentioned we are the only ones capable and sane to fight for our family during this crisis .. for me to recognize that due to his lack of judgment earlier in the week when my D was choking it must have made him think and feel so for this week he is out of the fog a bit... but I'm still not going to expect anything or that he'll even go to the fair on Saturday so I'm not let down...

As DR says ( I just finished it) right down and note the small signs and positive steps we see and hold on to that and not the negative... I know with my H if I keep bringing up and critizing the negative things and what he isn't doing .. it won't make him do it... all this DR and DB stuff is right on just feels unnatural at times when we are hurting..

Recognize some results any small sign as a good one...

hang in there....

[hope3343]

Ladies....
Marisol - damn right I'd be right in the sack with my H if he wanted it...if I could let my mind be free of OW for the moment... I know it would set me back about a week or two emotionally but how I crave and want my H so bad... I had a dream last night - the first one where we were kissing and it was so real and so great... when I woke up I realized only person laying next to me was my D3 ....

Ditto...looks like we are all feeling the same... Need to keep our humor and avoid all those sexy movies!!!!

[JGrind]

hi everyone,

I have 5 minutes before my students arrive for CPR classes, so I just want you all to know how much your thoughts, prayers , and concern really means to me. You could be concerned only with your own situation, but you've really reached out. I think our loss and pain has given us greater empathy for others hurting as well.

D11 had a good day today. She apologized several times, said she loved me and hugged and kissed me. I really find it so easy to forgive - I do love her so much.

I am having a tough evening however. Tonight is 16th wedding anniversary, but instead of being with H, Im here at work sucking it up. H did come over after work to pick up kids. Played some volleyball with us, then helped D14 with brakes on dirtbike. Hardly pays attention to me, does not initiate conversation. Overheard S11 asking H if Jacob will be at house tonight (OW's son) and H replied "yes". So he will be spending our anniversary with OW. I cried silently, got myself together, and politely asked for some help with a light fixture and asked about a work meeting he had yesterday. Apparently the company is facing a possible shutdown. He must be at a breaking point by now. He doesnt need that, I dont care what he's done to me or the kids.

OK have to go. Will check in later.