About the going to bed thing...thank you for your feedback and suggestions. You are right about the colluding especially, although I hadn't thought of it that way before. I really already knew I should get back to it. I think I threw it out there for comments because I just need more motivation...and accountability! The only time I was able to do it for very long was around the time of the bomb, because I had the most powerful motivation I've ever had: I felt like that was absolutely necessary to save my M. But I stopped working at it (and it is work, every day I try to do it) after about three months because it didn't seem to make any difference. I think I need to get a different clock, because I have some hearing loss and I don't always hear the alarm...even though I tried to get the loudest one I could. My poor cats, having to endure the buzzing!
No, I don't have to go to all of H's performances. I always have in the past to show my support of him, and I think he has appreciated that, although he's never been one to say "thanks" much. As for OW showing up at the play...well, she lives 5 hours away, so if she comes for it, he will want to spend time with her, so he would undoubtedly be paying for a hotel room for the two of them again. I really don't understand how these cheaters can live with themselves.
I have seen pictures of OW, but that is all I have in the way of recognizing her. I suspect I would recognize her if I were on the lookout for her, which I would be at the shows. We were within sight of each other once, when the two of them drove by our house when I was supposed to be out of town, but she turned her head away and hid her face. Not in shame, apparently, or we wouldn't still be in this sitch. I was out front talking to the neighbors so H didn't even turn in to the driveway when he saw me, just kept on going. It was fast enough that I didn't even really see him, just recognized the car. And she has stayed at our house when I did go out of town, so she has undoubtedly seen a lot of pictures of me.
In other news, I got my hair cut and colored (foiled) yesterday, and the look is a touch more dramatic than I had in mind, but I am okay with it (although I think I'll have her tone it down next time). I was lightening my boring brown hair to blonde in college (I think I started after I met H), but after college, I never colored my hair again until I started getting it highlighted at the beginning of this year, in response to the bomb. Everyone (well, except H, of course, as he is unlikely to pay me a compliment without being tied to the stake--unless it's paired with a criticism, anyway) has told me I look good with the lighter color. Now it's a bit lighter yet, with a touch of auburn, and she put in some moderately light blond streaks. Not boring any more, at least! I only object to the fact that if you care to look, you will be able to tell that it didn't get that way naturally. But in general I like it. I don't have a lot of gray, and what I do have, I pull out. I can admit it verbally, but don't enjoy looking at it! (H doesn't have ANY gray, and he is two years older than me and everyone else in his family has some!) Now I need to find a time when my friend can teach me about makeup!
I was having one of my mildly depressive flashes today, although for the most part I felt pretty good, and I was thinking, "I don't suppose in the long run it really matters about H's affairs or what happens with my M...a hundred years from now, we'll ALL be dead." Yes, I'm just a freakin' ray of sunshine, am I not?
And on that note, I am GOING TO BED. It's 5:40 a.m. here, but that is actually progress!
Peace, Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
Okay, I'd love some comments on this delightful snippet of conversation that took place tonight, when I did something of a 180 and went downstairs (H's lair) when I got home from class, to see if the presidential debate was still going on (that's where our only TV is--I never ever watch--seriously! the last time I turned it on was on 9/11). H *wasn't* on the phone with OW, for once (which is one of the big reasons I usually don't go down there when he's there). I sat down and chatted with him a bit about the debate, then he settled himself in that way that clearly says "R talk time!" And I thought, "Here we go again!"
H: Are you ever going to talk to me about *anything*? Me: What do you want to talk about? (very politely) H: <Sigh> Why do you always have to make this so difficult? (I just looked at him, sort of wide-eyed, because I thought that anything I said would just get me in trouble.) H: <Sigh> Well, why don't you tell me about your prescription, to start with. (Brief discussion about my prescription, which is a medication that has apparently recently been approved for my skin condition [acne--annoying but not serious], but the official literature lists it as being for things like congestive heart failure. I was amused at the dichotomy of it, and I admit it, I wondered what H would think of THAT! Well, he didn't say much, but I got the impression that it stirred up some disturbing thoughts. Not necessarily for my benefit. I explained what it was for, he asked who had prescribed it [my dermatologist did]. I'm not hung up on the exchange or anything, but it was the first time in months he has even expressed the remotest interest in my well-being. After that he seemed to sort of give up on the idea of a discussion, although I did ask what he wanted to talk about.
Okay, apparently I shouldn't try to compose messages right now. I keep falling asleep mid-word and trying to remember where I was going with that idea. The lack of sleep that I've been accumulating is now catching up with me, and I think I'm about to crash.
Apparently I'm sleep-deprived enough that my brains are starting to leak out my ears. I'll have to come back later and hope that this all makes some sense in the meantime. Would welcome comments!
Peace, Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
I thought I was going to bed...HA! I'm starting to think I'm addicted to the board!
I've been meaning to post this for a while, but kept forgetting; see what you think of this:
H has a friend (male, although H's friendships are becoming more and more heavily weighted toward the female side as the years pass) who was his best friend throughout high school and college, although the relationship got less tight as friend and his W kept moving and now live halfway across the country. Shortly before or after the bomb (can't quite remember), this friend called my H (not a common occurrence) and told him he had just been diagnosed with a brain tumor, and might only have a few months to live. He hadn't even told his parents or siblings yet, but he called to tell my H. H was pretty shocked, I think, and was considering flying out to Seattle to spend some time with his friend. We have been getting regular mass e-mail updates about friend's condition since about January, and he has been through a lot (and he's got more to come), but seems to be doing okay, all things considered...he's still alive, that's for sure. Anyway, H sometimes sends a short e-mail response to his friend regarding the updates, but he hasn't so much as CALLED his friend in the year or so since he found out about the tumor. So...H's longtime best friend is fighting a possibly fatal disease, at 44 years of age, and H can't even be bothered to call him ONCE in a year's time, much less spend some time and money on a visit to see him...and yet H talks to OW on the phone for a couple of hours EVERY #$%^& DAY and sees her about twice a month (despite the distance, although it's not nearly as far away as Seattle, granted), and spends money on her like they're going to stop printing it!!
All together now, MLC INSANITY; it's all about H, H, H! The Mother Ship has a FIRM hold on this one!
What do you think about that??!
Okay, it's really time to get off the board now...
Peace, Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
Sounds to me like he was just trying to make conversation because he feels that you do not talk to him, avoid him or even ignore him. I am not saying you ignore him at all, just trying to figure out what is going on in his brain.
Maybe he noticed the meds and wanted to know what was going on as an "ice-breaker" type of conversation.
As for the friend--men are not known to pick up the phone and chat like women do to other men. And who knows, maybe the age and diagnosis of the friend has put in your h's mind that life is short, things can happen to anyone at any time.
As for talking to ow for hours. Yeah, my h did that in the beginning because it was an infatuation, thrill type of thing.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
My H also talked to OW for hours in the beginning. Still insists she is just a friend but whatever... I don't care about that anymore. My H too has been showing interest in my health lately. Started with blood tests ordered by Dr. Two weeks later he is now noticing how I feel, look, act, and is concerned about me just a tiny bit. Says he is just making sure I'm alive but I know it is more than that.
He will be thinking. Believe it or not, I believe they are doing a lot of this trying to figure out where their feelings are really coming from.
If you focus on the past, you ruin the future. You can only live for today.
Dawn maybe this is a call to you that your h would like to have more convos with you, but he has given up because maybe you are ice cold. Would that be a fair assessment?
This is what I was talking about awhile back for you, that even if your h doesn't recipricate it's you that needs to show the unconditional love.
As far as friend, MWG is right men don't talk like women. Could it be that it has hit close to home and if he calls then he has to get emotionally involved at some level. If he just e-mails he doesn't have to make that emotional connection. He can be concerned but from a safe distance.
Men really don't like to show their emotional side. He might be struggling with that. Just some thoughts!
Me 50 H 42 S 22 S 9 D 7 M 12 T 17 H moved out 8/2006 H moved home 1/2007 for 3 weeks H moved home 5/2011 for good
"Learn from yesterday ~ Live for today ~ And hope for tomorrow"
Thanks, MWG, Kelaaron, and Glam, for your advice and encouragement. I did gain some new insight from your thoughts.
Today I could REALLY use some support. Yesterday I accidentally (I was not snooping) discovered some videos that H and OW took when he was on vacation with her a couple of months ago (I hadn't even known for sure that they were together for that part of the time he was gone). There wasn't really anything risque or anything like that on them--in fact, there weren't any videos that both of them were in, although the soundtrack is them talking to each other--in general, pretty average vacation videos. I had only seen still pix of OW before, and then only head and shoulders. This was the first time I had seen her more full length or moving around or heard her voice. OMG, she's HUGE! She's fat all over, but her stomach looks like she's pregnant with an entire baseball team! Sort of makes me wonder why I ever bothered to work out hard and eat right, if someone that big can attract my H away from me (and he was never attracted to that sort of thing before!). I think the thing that bothered me most was seeing the way they acted to each other (even though one of them was always behind the camera)--my H was flirty and joking and smiling, which he hasn't been with me in so long I barely remember it. It was just like a knife to the gut. So yesterday was the first punch, and I was pretty upset but thought I was getting past it.
Then today I got some bad work-related news, and the worst thing is, it's all my fault, because I can't seem to do ANYTHING on time. I have been fighting my procrastination for 30 years, and it's pretty bad now. I have lost clients because of my procrastination before, and every time, I would promise myself, "Never again!" And then I keep doing it, and today it caught up to me in a pretty major way.
So I am just...devastated today. Sometimes when one area of your life is going south on you, at least you can hold on to the fact that everything else is going okay. But right now the two biggest areas of my life are in the toilet, and I'm having so much trouble dealing with all of this that it's like the ADs suddenly stopped working. It's bad enough that I'm feeling moderately suicidal right now. I've been crying, which I rarely do any more except when my AD levels get too low, but I've been taking them consistently for weeks and was doing fine. I don't even want to talk to anyone in RL about this because I feel so guilty about how I've messed up with my work. I've tried and tried to fix the problem over the years--fighting procrastination has been a constant in my life--and nothing has really worked.
The way I feel right now, this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I just feel like a total failure right now. I'm just sitting here sobbing and telling God, "I can't do this any more. I just can't. There is nothing in my life that's worth sticking around for. I don't know what you made me for, but I can't believe this is it. I've made a mess of every opportunity I've had, and I just feel like I'm permanently broken. The best I've ever been able to do is to feel that maybe someday I will feel that my life has been worthwhile, and I've contributed more than I've taken. The best I've been able to feel about the value of my life is neutral. Most of my life, though, has been spent wondering why I should keep on living. Why should I keep on trying when I keep failing and never getting any better?"
I have been dealing with this sort of thing for years, and I know that if I just hold on, eventually I will feel better, but it doesn't help.
I think I'm going to take a walk and see if I can get a grip. No guarantees.
Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
I think you need to find a good counselor that will help you asap.
Don't think about what your h is with as they always affair down and choose the opposite of their wives. You can ask many of us here and we will all tell you the same thing.
It is the thrill of the chase and infatuation--it does and will wear off.
With regard to your job--you need someone to give you a gentle push so that you will stop procrastinating.
Honestly, I would attempt to find a C who will help you with that and with regard to your husband/marriage.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
I wish I could give you a hug right now. You are not a failure, you did not cause your H's MLC. Remember this is his issue, you are just heavily affected by it.
MLC can lower our self-esteem tremendously. It affects how we look at other things.
We all make mistakes in our jobs. Learn from your mistake, fix it and then let it go.
It helps nothing to beat yourself up.
Seeing vacation pictures is devastating. It breaks the heart. I remember seeing my ex's vacation pictures when they went to Jamaica. Most of the pictures he took of other woman involved her backside. Pathetic.... My kids asked me why dad only took pictures of OW's butt. Remember they are not themselves, they are lost and spiritually empty.
Start looking at this time in your life as a battle to be fought. Get mad, get angry and get even. Get even by turning into someone YOU love. Someone YOU respect. Someone YOU would want to date. Focus on the person that matters here, YOU.
You sound like such a wonderful, caring person. God has a purpose for everyone. It is so hard to see it in between all the crap of someone's MLC. The devil is working on you girl. Don't let him win.
Keep posting, and we will keep listening.
You are not alone in this
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
MWG, Thanks for posting to me, I really appreciate it.
You are right about the "affair down" thing, I am sure. On my better days that doesn't bother me at all, I know objectively that I'm a more appealing partner in a lot of ways. I do sometimes wonder how long it will be before the infatuation wears off--it's been a year and three months now since this all started.
Regarding my work...I have had lots of gentle pushes, and some 2x4s too. I keep doing it. I don't understand why. I know I must be getting something out of procrastination, but I have no idea what it is. I've talked to therapists and a lot of other people about this, and I don't think I've made any real progress at all.
You are right, I need to get back into therapy. I quit about a month ago because the insurance benefits for it were used up for the year, so I figured I'd start again in January, but I need to find a different therapist. The one I had been working with is nice enough, but I don't think she was helping me very much.
I have bills piling up that I don't know when I will be able to pay. I've developed one of those rather personal medical issues, although that is relatively minor and shouldn't last too long, but it is making me uncomfortable. I've started having headaches again.
Now I remember why I went on ADs and plan to stay on them. I hate feeling like this, and I've already spent most of the last 30 years feeling this way to some degree. I just can't even stand being in my own skin. I want to just run away and leave all this behind me. Sometimes I feel like whitewashed fecal matter. Great, now I'm crying again.
I have been doing so much better with my self-esteem all this year than ever before, and even though I know deep down that I am an okay person, right now I don't know why I am bothering to keep trying to make something meaningful of my life. No matter where I go, I seem to always end up back here, wondering, "What's the use?"
I don't expect the people on this board to take the place of IC. But sometimes ya just have to let it all out. Welcome to depression. You won't have a nice visit.
Thanks for listening... Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
The only time I was able to do it for very long was around the time of the bomb, because I had the most powerful motivation I've ever had: I felt like that was absolutely necessary to save my M. But I stopped working at it (and it is work, every day I try to do it) after about three months because it didn't seem to make any difference. I think I need to get a different clock, because I have some hearing loss and I don't always hear the alarm...even though I tried to get the loudest one I could. My poor cats, having to endure the buzzing! 
I really don't understand how these cheaters can live with themselves.
