H moving out!! Crisis I need help

[hope3343]

Hi TxMom, offline for the day. Had such a rough time these last days. I feel like I am isolating myself which I know is bad. My D is really mad at H and is trying to avoid him. The more he calls the more she rejects him. This has really changed her.
H was here yesterday...again. I know it is cake eating but I am trying to be nice but if it gets to be too much I might have to go black. He seems very depressed. Just eating junk, spending money like crazy and just not down.
I agree with S.T I think it will be a long haul. 21 years is a long time and I read somewhere that for every year of marriage it will take one month.

So TxMom you are possibly looking at 6months which I hope is sooner. Sounds like he is starting to turn around a bit.
At least he seems to be thinking things through.

I pray everyday that God will continue to work on my H. I do feel lost without him.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

I agree having him around is better, but I also have been given the advice to play the tough love route too... like around the Holiday's... he brought it up that he will not be around my family for the holiday's - I didn't say anything.. part of me wants him to suffer and realize how it really is going to be if he divorces me - part of me wants him to spend it with us... too soon to tell and not sure what will work best....



Today I'm not even sure I'd want him back... actually I don't want the old man back I want a better healthier man back and not sure right now if he is willing to do the work to get there... He mentioned he had talked to a priest (I wonder though) and he said well you know they are pro-marriage .. I should have said - yeah of course they are.. like he doesn't want to talk to anyone that is for saving the marriage - he doesn't want to hear it. I mentioned that what harm is talking to a counselor to work through what he is feeling.. he said our MC counselor was telling him all the things he didn't want to hear... I said if he goes by himself she'll just help him sort out his feelings and allow us to better communicate... who knows...

I would suggest, if he has said he won't be around your family then don't bring it up again. I understand the tough love, but there is a line you don't want to cross too, and it's the part about allowing them to feel comfortable with you again,so that they will open up and start viewing you as a friend again.


of course he won't do the work now, he is no where ready for that. But in the future, he quite possibly will, and you can make a difference in that as well by how you choose to respond to him. You will lead his way.

In regards to C, just be careful. I sometimes think a C can get in the way, UNLESS you have a specifically pro-marriage and sollution based therapist. Otherwise, they could just validate and encourage the WAS to move forward with their "feelings" IMO.

[TxMomw/2girls]

Thanks ST - I agree too that is why I struggle..part of me wants to run and take my kids away from him and the other wants to be his friend so he does continue to open up to me... read below my latest and this is my struggle this is not the person I married... I'm so upset that I can't even count on him as a father right now... only when it works in his favor... something has to give!!!!!!!!!

I need advice....

to refresh my H is not living here and hasn't moved into an apt either...staying at OW apartment

I am besides myself and I don't want to lay into him when I hear from him this morning so help....

My 5 month old was choking last night after I gave her last bottle... gagging on her formula so I ran and got the suction and was hitting her back .. it was enough where I got panicked so I called and text my H at 8:30 ... then I called 911 but as soon as I did this she started crying and I knew it was clear then... I was upset couldn't reach my H and he NEVER called or text me back... I had texted him again at 9:30 telling him what happened and wish I could have counted on him... again NEVER heard anything the whole night.

This morning my almost 4yr was crying for him and wanted to call him... called him twice at 7am and 7:30am - he didn't answer and she left a voice mail...

Where are his priorities... I can not handle this... leave me but not the kids... I want to tell him he can't see his kids anymore until he can grow up and start putting them first....

I know many of you struggle with this from your S too... tell me how to handle b/c I'm not going to sit back and let him just come and go when he wants too and not be accountable... but I don't want to lay into him either which will end up in a huge fight...

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trying2live]

Well the first thing of course this is not the man you married, and you have to come to grips with that really really fast. You cannot at this time expect any kind of rational normal thinking. They are in the fog. No amount of trying to reason with them is going to work, even with the children. They may come out of the fog here and there with the children but then they go right back into the fog again. Please for your own sanity, do not expect anything from your spouse right now. This is going to help you tremendously. If you expect nothing then you won't be let down. No amount of having him feel guilty will work, the fog is too thick.

As far as the kiddies, you are now a single parent. You must function this way, at least for now until the fog lifts. I am the total opposite. Once I found out, I grabbed every book known to man and educated my self on Adultery. The first thing I learned was to stop saying I love you. Implemented that by 2 weeks. Then I learned to stop the chase and let the caged animal free. When an animal is caged it wants freedom, but if you give it freedom then it starts to question if it wants it. So by 4 weeks I let the caged animal free. I stopped all calling, texting, emailing completely. I only communicated by text about if the money was deposited. I think this really bothered him. I started to focus on myself more, i didn't always do well, but I tried to get the focus off him.
For the last 5 months until I started Plan A of the book on OCt 3rd. I did not contact him in anyway unless it was to respond to his verbal beatings via email. I think deep down inside he always felt I couldn't make it without him and I was bound and determined to show him that I was not this weakling he thought I was.
Now I did not bash him in any ways shape or form even in response to his nasty emails. I gave sound calm responses detached and matter of fact. I did not allow him to engage me. Sometimes these spouses will engage you in an argument just to meet an emotional need to release guilt. If they argue with you and pin it on you then they feel better at least until the next time they unload.
I know it's hard, believe me my H moved out 3 weeks after discovery. But you know what there was more peace in the home with out him there. I know it's hard.
Ya know what the kids and I have been sick, I had to call the police one night because I thought someone was behind my house. Guess what I didn't tell him any of it.
Now just recently I have re-established contact with him(as you know I'm doing the Surviving An Affair program) and my DD17 got this horrible bout of tonsillitis. We had to got to the Dr. 3 times. Somehow half way thru the week he found out and asked why I didn't call him(he never would have asked that a few months ago) and I said I didn't want to bother you and he says no call me anytime. I don't know whether or not any of our spouses will come back, but what I'm understanding is there is a natural time progression that must happen for reality to hit most of these walkaways. I was so overly determined I would not call him even if I was in the hospital. I needed to know for myself and for him that I can make it with or with out you but hopefully with you. I did tell him this to his face 1 month in. He had come to the house to see son. HE says so what your just going for get about me, I suppose your not going to wait forever are you? IF you want me back so bad why aren't you begging me? I told him I am the mother of your children and I am not begging. I found it funny. I think my confidence and head strong(not rude or condescending) attitude made him question, is this what I really want?

As best you can start living. You be the family just you and the kids. My advice is to try and emotionally pull away. I remember asking how do you do that, but looking back not I can see what helped. I stopped all chasing right away, did not communicate unless necessary. I had 3 sessions with Jody(I couldn't pay for any more) but what she said to do is to stop all negative communications. Communicate as little as possible until these negative communications have subsided. Any contact I did have if it was for pick up of the children should be confident happy and kinda like i was a neighbor.

Pull back till your head can clear. Be the strong mom. I have full confidence in your ability to care for your children while your H is in the fog. You can do this. Live you and the kiddies. Go do things, go to the park, the beach whatever. If they get sick you handle it, take them to the doctor and do what you need to do. Your H is in thick fog right now, it will clear it just depends on what you want. Decide what it is you want. It will help you and then be honest about what can happen.

I am doing everything I know to do and fighting for my marriage, but I am fully aware it can go either way. But as the Surviving An Affair book says all affairs usually die a natural death. Its just the time frame that's the problem. Anywhere from 6-18 months. Most people don't have that in them. I think for myself since Im a week away from my 1st goal of 6 months I want to try to make it to 1 year. I feel if my H doesn't know what he wants by then well his loss. I was fair. It really amounts to what we all can or can't do and what we are willing to tolerate and for how long and unfortunately we are the only ones who will know that. Come by my thread anytime if you need anything or need to vent...sorry it was so long I'm just rambling. Hope it helps you.
P.S. Just browsed a few posts up. My recommendation and opinion is do not talk about the OW or the relationship or counseling right now. They don't want to hear it they are in the fog and they don't want to be "fixed" or Dr. Phil'd as my H would say to me. All I've read says do not mention counseling right now. There may be a time when you can but its definitely not now.

Think about this, the OW is cheery, confident, full of energy, is happy every time she see's our spouse. She does not want our spouse to go to counseling or try to change him. She likes him just like he is and he feels like the man. This is what we are competing against. I'm not saying that he doesn't need to change things, but it's not the time yet.
Also my opinion as far as lashing out. I did that only once, I apologized later and guess what so did he. The bible says a soft answer turns away wrath. Always carry your self as best you can as a lady, that's what you are. Don't lower yourself.

[JGrind]

good morning,

Id like to raid this thread a bit. Hello T2L, Hope, and TXmom. Ive skimmed though all 10 pages of this thread and I see there are a couple of successes? (ST and Saddie?) Can I sum up what has went on in the last 4 months for those who dont know, b/c of course I need some friendly advice on an issue that's been bugging me from the night H left. OK, in a nutshell:


me -36 married to H(38) 16yr this Fri, Oct 17. T 21yr.

3 kids D11 S11(twins) and S14

H says "IDLYA you have not been available to me emotionally or intimately. I really needed that from you. You really hurt me.
I'm done"

Next eve, 6/19, H moves out - intially lives in our camper parked in his parents driveway until finding a house to rent about 30-45min away.

7/4 H admits EA and asked for D

H consulted atty a little over 1mo ago, came over and discussed preliminary paperwork from this atty regarding child support and visitation over which we made some verbal agreements.

About OW: my H is baseball coach for S11 team for last 4yr. OW's S11 has been playing for this team as well. We were friends and even graduated high school together. She has 2 S and married 17yr. her H is heavy drinker, verbally abusive and controlling (although you'd never know it - that is behind closed doors). She left him about same time H left me.

My H is heavy drinker too admits he is "functioning alcoholic"

When kids are with H (which is only every other weekend and whenever he decides to stop in for an hour about once during the week) since the first time they stayed at his place, OW and her boys also stay. Kids have witnessed their drinking, flirting, locking themselves in the bedroom, OW's picture of herself and H on her laptop screensaver, and H listed as "my sweetie" under her contacts. The most heartbreaking was D11 getting up in middle of night to see H b/c she couldnt sleep and found OW asleep in his bed with him.

OK, so I have read DR and am trying to follow it's principles, but am confused as to whether anything is really working at this point. The book is so right. Begging , pleading, reasoning, pursuing does not work - for me it just reaffirmed H feelings that he no longer loves me, hasnt missed me since he's been gone, and insists I need to let him go. "Let him go" has been the only rational thing he's said since he left, so that's what Ive been trying to do. GAL - I found a wonderful church and I am training with a personal trainer, mostly for strenth training and nutrition (lost over 20 lb - 5'7" 112 lb). Slowly putting the weight back on. My big 180 will be to learn how to be respectfully assertive (I am the very passive type) -and Ive practiced this in a few of our, very infrequent , conversations regarding the kids, finances, and allowing OW to be around the kids. I have also practiced assertiveness in regards to OW's H who , was the one who actually opened my eyes to the A between our S, but then started to become too close to me for comfort - almost like pursuing me. This behavior on my part has left H speechless more than once, so I guess it is working. I will continue assertiveness training with my T.

Ok, so here is my burning question... The night H left I asked why he didnt communicate feelings to me all this time (of course he insisted he did) and he probably did the best he knew how, but I didnt recognize the warning signs. Anyway, asked H if he'd been talking to any of his family/friends about the situation. H says "yes, Ive been talking to Mike and he hates me for the way I feel". Mike and H have been close friends since 2nd grade. We all hung out and worked together in high school, so Mike and I know each other very well. I think you all know where Im going with this......... The rulebooks say do not pursue S or their friends or family, but I cant resist the temptation b/c I know H is in constant contact with Mike since they work together, and Mike and his wife were at H 20 high school reunion weekend. We were all planning on going together and staying overnight 2 nights. Should I make an effort to contact him and tell him my side? Sounds like he is already on my side anyway. Could he be a positive influence on H? Or maybe I will just be setting myself up for more disappointment. Mike has not made any effort to contact me, so maybe what he is seeing on his end is not so good. Then again, its not like we would reguarlly contact each other "just b/c" anyway.

Anyone? What do you think? Reach out or leave it alone?

[twinhope]

TxMom, We have the small children thing in common and this is very difficult for me trying to go thru all this and not having help. I ran into a similar situation a couple of weeks ago when my one daughter was having difficulty going poo. It got so bad she was screaming, kicking, crying in pain and I don't have any family here and all my friends live about 30mins away. I called the ped and he suggested an enema(sp?) It was 9pm and I did not want to drag both my daughters to the store. I tried calling my H and texting him with no response. I finally asked my neighbor to sit with the girls so I could run to the store. My H called back at about 11:30pm and offered no help no feeling bad no wondering if she was ok. All he said was, "I wouldn't know what to do anyway" What a crock god forbid he offer to help. He never even checked later to see how she was or the next day to see how she made it through the night. I feel the same way you do in that it is one thing to leave me but your kids! This is not the man I married or the man I knew! I don't feel they should be let off the hook but T2L is right. They are in a big fog and it is obvious by their behavior that they have no idea what in the world they are doing. I think we need to take care of our children as if they aren't there and not expect anything from them. They are wrong, very wrong but not even our kids are clearing the fog. The ball will drop and they will suffer it is just a matter of when. I know for me that I have to be so strong. I am working full time, taking care of the twins, taking care of a huge house, and taking care of 2 dogs with no help or relief except when their part-time Dad shows up one night a week and every other weekend. The funny thing is that my H thinks he has lost everything and I have it easy! We are all here to support each other and we will get through this as better people may it be with our S's(hopefully) or without! I know when I am down I look at my girls and think of how blessed I am to have them and that I need to keep it together for them to show them a responsible, dedicated, and loving parent because they aren't seeing that from their Dad. Sometimes I would like to tell him that I hope and pray that our girls never ever marry a man like him! The way he is now anyway!

[twinhope]

I hit submit by accident! My suggestion is to let him be. Don't pick any fights with H. It won't matter and they don't care. They are looking for a reason to justify their behavior and that is all they need is for us to screw up! Treat him as if he is a neighbor. You can't expect him to do the right thing. I know it is hard but you can do it and have your H be responsible for his visitation and financial support.

[TxMomw/2girls]

Gosh.... I'm calm now but boy has this sent me through the roof...

Twinhope I'm going to your thread too... we are in very similar situations... Mine being so new... out of house 3 weeks... going on 4 weeks and I'm just not use to some of the disconnect I'm getting when it comes to the kids...

T2L - I've done pretty much what you have done... Read DB right away.. got on these boards all within the first week. He moved out of house a month after bomb and I have actually played it good... some backsliding but I have really been able to separate the OW from our M problems ... BUT when it comes to the kids I will fight till I can't fight anymore and I don't believe in letting them off easy.. I will send him an email today and it will come from a nice place but I will set up some boundries ... ie. when he will call to talk to kids etc.. we haven't really done this and because I travel for my job he has to usually watch the kids during the week.

I have played it nice and friendly, he has actaully showed emotion the last two weeks so he is coming in and out of the fog.. it is confirmed that he is sick b/c he would have never done this prior to this place he is in.

I do believe in holding him accountable - I didn't have kids to do it all alone... now I know that I will and do do most of it but I believe in holding him accountable..

I'm a very strong person to begin with so my 180 would be to count on him and show him I need his help ... not the opposite.. he knows I can do it all by myself... and the more he is around the house with the kids that is the only time the fog seems to lift....

jgrind I will read your post and reply to it here shortly...

[TxMomw/2girls]

JGrind...

I would not contact friend not yet.... advice I've gotten over and over again... If this is a friend that you normally wouldn't talk too regularly then leave it... in time you might find you can but for now I wouldn't... I wanted to do the same to my H friend but was instructed not too...

Friends are really one small influence and in reality I've learned they aren't going to fix or really help him .. .just will give him another outlook...

hang in there....

[Trying2live]

Here's some info I put on my thread I thought you might like...Got it from an ebook on affairs...Enjoy.....

If you are ready and truly want to break free from the infidelity and increase the odds of saving the marriage let's go. (In reality the odds are not very good, IF old patterns continue).

But, bear this in mind. Breaking free from the infidelity means you must make some changes in how you typically approach yourself and your spouse.

This will take practice, practice and more practice.

And, you may need to act and communicate in ways that seem very strange or foreign to you. You also may not understand why you need to do what you need to do, but stick with me.
A KEY Infidelity Marriage Saving Skill to Master

Here's a key infidelity skill you need to master in saving your marriage. I call it charging neutral.

If you are like most of us, the disclosure of the affair rips you apart and your feelings are on your sleeves. You react to your spouse. You communicate fear, worry, angst and/or anger with every fiber of your body and in every intonation of your voice.

You communicate this verbally and mostly nonverbally. Your reaction increases the distance and gives ammunition to your spouse to justify and even continue the affair. (Gosh, no wonder I want to get away from this. My lover certainly is not like this!)
Reacting to Infidelity is NOT Saving your Marriage

Rather than reacting and your feelings flowing all over the place, practice charging neutral.

I want you to be able to communicate to your spouse with neither an Up or Down but Neutral charge. Communicate calmness, not only in your tone of voice but also in how you carry your body. Don't speak with a charge to your voice. Control your voice!

Here's what will happen when you are able to do this:

1. You will be able to point out something big, without making a big deal out of it. You make your point! And, it is heard! You will learn how to confront and feel more and more comfortable (well...maybe that is a stretch, at least at first) with this skill.

2. You will be in control of you. This will feel great.

3. This skill gives you personal power. People are really attracted to someone who is able to charge neutral. (Can you think of someone who does this well?)

4. You defuse the reactivity of your spouse. You change the rules of communication. Your spouse will probably be confused, internally impressed and not be quite sure what to do with you.

5. You break the destructive pattern of communication that hits the brick wall and only results in misery.

Charge neutral is clean communication that's about the truth being spoken without accusations, defensiveness or explanations that typically mire communication.

Charge neutral is very subtle but very powerful.

Charge neutral is about stating the truth directly, without anything added. No hidden agendas.

Charge neutral is not monotone or about being boring. The truth is not boring.

It's hard to give examples of charging neutral since charging neutral is not so much what you say, but how you say it. Maybe this will help. Here's what you can convey by charging neutral without giving you specific words:

* Your life is a mess. (By charging neutral you can almost make that feel like good news.)
* You've failed. (Like, no big deal. So what? Yet I understand.)

Keep charging neutral in mind as you confront your spouse/partner.
As you move through the process of discovery to recovery this will make more and more sense to you. As you learn to find your personal power, charging neutral will become easier and more powerful.