fresh start with someone else who doesn't have history with her behavior;
I just reread your post and found this sentence. I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is a definite desire for someone who has had and A and admit it or not feels tremendous guilt or remorse or self loathing.
Trouble is - and I feel this daily - if you dont really get to the bottom of why you thought you could have an A you will do it again.
I can pin loads of reasons but i think i am not understanding it. I have no family history of this immoral behaviour. where did it come from ? Is it my h fault ( his inability to communicate - to understand me - to love me the way i need to be loved ) Why the hell should he take any blame ?
As I feel so mixed up , I am going to try to sort out what i feel.
Is it worthless, valued, hated, loved, etc etc.
I think I needed to waffle in order to help get order.
and also
Quote:
Trouble is - and I feel this daily - if you dont really get to the bottom of why you thought you could have an A you will do it again.
I can pin loads of reasons but i think i am not understanding it. I have no family history of this immoral behaviour. where did it come from ? Is it my h fault ( his inability to communicate - to understand me - to love me the way i need to be loved ) Why the hell should he take any blame ?
End of the day - I made a concious decision .
Could you be someone who isn't feeling completely confident in herself? Is it possible you seek out others to "make you happy", whether your husband or some other guy?
Could it be that this separation is the time where you figure out how to make yourself happy, without another man? And then if you have a new relationship you will be starting from a stronger base.
Check out the book - "Passionate Marriage". The writing style is obtuse but the points it makes are very good. What I took away: To be a good partner in a marriage, you need to be independently strong. You need to be happy with yourself.
Max...after years of soul searching to discover why I had been unfaithful in my marriage...I basically discovered it all boiled down to me being emotionally immature and incapable of the type of true intimacy it takes to be completely faithful. I could not be completely faithful until I could be completely intimate. This took me years to understand and not until I was divorced and with a new partner did I finally start to "get it". My new partner pointed out to me very clearly the ways in which I was "blocking" intimacy with him early in our relationship. As I explore "yeah, he's right...I really am blocking it...why would I do that?"...over time, I kept sorting through and sorting through it all.
I cannot pinpoint a "reason" for why it was, but the conclusion I finally reached was that I was unable to experience true intimacy with ANYONE. Not even close friends. I had to have this wall around myself to protect me from the intimacy. As if intimacy was painful...although, at the time I was unaware that I felt that way.
Slowly with my new partner, we tore down that wall.
When I was finally open to receiving it, the flood of previoulsy denied intimacy that washed over me felt literally like being baptised. It washed out my soul and left me cleaned out. It was somewhat painful too, especially to realize what I had been missing out on all these years, due to my own inability to accept true intimacy.
And now that I can handle real intimacy, other parts of my life are opening up and becoming more and more...REAL...
For instance, now when I go to church or deeply contemplate my creator's love for me, I begin to cry. The tears just come straight to my eyes...no choking up first, no warning. Just straight, raw, but unbelievably initmate emotions come straight through. Before I opened up my intimacy issues, if I had felt the beginning of tears during church or prayer, I definitely would have backed them off and I can kind of recall actually doing it at the time...how it felt, what I had to do to "stop" the intimacy.
If I take this a bit further, I can also sort of recall a part of myself that would back off from other types of intimacy also, when it became a bit too close.
I do feel healed in a sense...but please remember, this took me a divorce, many years of reflection, counseling, reading...and a new 5 year relationship with the love of my life before I could figure out exactly why I had cheated.
Please be patient with yourself. It will not necessarily just become suddenly clear to you your inner reasons "why" for cheating...instead, you will be slowly revealed to yourself more and more, the more you can accept of your own truth.
Thanks for that DQ. I think you are right about the intimacy issue. I have many friends but not a best friend as such, I love my family but they would tell you otherwise. By that i mean , I am functional around them and I laugh etc around them but I am not close.
The only people I am vulnerable with and really drawn to are my children. They leave me with the feelings of wanting to protect and care for. There is not a single thing they could do to me that would dent that love.
I know with H you are meant to have that and more. H should of been my priority . It is funny but he is not someone who would ever talk about feelings but over the course of many years he has occasionally brought up the very intimacy feelings. He could not put words to what he felt , he said it just did not feel right.
I am the only one in my family like this. Did you ever discover why you were like you were ? Is it genetic, did something happen, were you middle child of a large family ? Was there an event that made you reject intimacy ?
Hmmmm I wonder if I get confused with being independently strong and being like DQ says - a fear of intimacy.
I thought I was independently strong, I am definitely capable and up until this year H had never seen me cry. And when i did cry he turned his back.
With a tiny little bit of trepidation I would like to ask you a question !
Yesterday H rang me to talk about purchasing a gift for a friend who has been helping us out with construction issues. He was suggesting that he buy them a weekend escape to a hotel in the city with dinner etc. He wanted my opinion. I said fabulous idea , I know i would love that. His response
" You will have to find a real man to take you away like that "
Soooo is this pain i am hearing. Is he now considering himself a failure as a man because I had an affair. Can you relate to these feelings SPM? Hope I am not analyzing or asking to much of you !
I am definitly not happy, I also have looked at every situation and wanted more and different and better.
You are absolutely right about using this time to become more confident and happy with me. I did my self no favours as far as that was concerned by having an A.
It is hard to approach a C when i you unsure of what you need to know. I can see the waste if you dont get the right C.
Making myself happy without a man sounds good. It is not the physical things or financial things i need from a man. I think I need a man to pay attention to me and care about me - watch my back so to speak.
I wonder if everything i need is tied up with this intimacy issue. might go to library and look at some books.
Do you recognise any of my behaviours and thoughts in your wife? Even though we choose to have an A i have to believe that there are certain traits that exist in us that allows us to do it. My friends dont have affairs, my family members have not to my knowledge.
If your wife is like me, then are you handling your situation correctly.
It all seems such a mess.
Any suggestions about how to find yourself most welcome.
Max...you said: "The only people I am vulnerable with and really drawn to are my children. They leave me with the feelings of wanting to protect and care for. There is not a single thing they could do to me that would dent that love."
There is a clue for you here. In fact, I used to feel exactly as you do...I felt that the only people I could be open to true intimacy with were my own children.
HOWEVER...what actually happened was that I put our children as an intimacy buffer BETWEEN myself and my ex-husband.
And now in retrospect, this was not "right". It was not true initmacy with my own children EITHER because I "used" them in this way. I "used" them to pour all my love and devotion upon, while I did not pour the same love and devotion upon my ex-husband. I "used" them to "fill me up" with love...instead of being a mature person who makes herself happy.
So for so many years, I thought that at least the one area I got it right was with my children....and yet...
My daughter is now aged 25 and has a daughter...and I can see that she and her partner are in the middle of a sexless marriage happening because both of them are so in love with the baby that it trumps their love for each other. They are both contributing to this problem....they are both making a HUGE mistake....and yet, my daughter believes that this is how you are supposed to raise children...that they SHOULD come before your partner, because I AM THE ONE WHO TAUGHT HER THIS AND SHE BELIEVES ME TO BE THE BEST MOM IN THE WORLD!
Max, how I wish I could tell her that I was wrong...that I should have never placed them above their father in my heart....
Please think long and hard before you believe that your intimacy with your children is as pure as you thought before....
Hi Max, it's Sandi. You stopped by another poster's thread and read a long list I had sent of DB do's and don'ts.
I have scanned over a little bit of your thread to get an idea of your stitch. Girl, you sound a lot like me! Maybe I need to go back and read every single post you wrote. I was amazed at some of the things you have said just in the last few posts and how much like me that you resemble. Hope that isn't an insult to you......lol.
I too have always been the "strong" one and had problems with sex and tried to fill my life up with my children and other things. I also have no real friends right now b/c I have almost isolated myself the past several years, except for going to work....where there certainly are no friends there......and for church.....where I don't really have what I think of as "buddies". So, I can identify with what you say.
I did not have a PA but I had a very sexual EA with a man over the Internet. I have said this statement sooooo many times, but here I go again.....I was the last person on earth that you would have suspected of getting involved or even looking at another man! Not b/c my M was so wonderful......but b/c of "me" being who I was as a person. You would just have to have known me in my personal life to fully understand that. However, lonliness in a M will drive a neglected W to do things she would never have dreamed she was capable of doing. So, you will find no judging from me.....that is for sure!
Do you mind kind of cutting to the chase for me and telling me if you and your H are living together? As I said, I picked out a few of your posts to read, but wondered about now how things are between you. You don't have to go into great lengths, just if you are living together. I thought you were from what I read about how he can't seem to "forget" about the A and how he makes curel statements to you about what you wear.....and if it is for OM, etc. That has got to be awful to put up with! You must be very strong to deal with that. I don't think I could.
Michelle, in the DR book, tells us to answer any of their questions about the A. I would think that having to put up with some of the sarcastic remarks is his way of trying to get the anger out, but I also believe that after a period of time, he needs to either find a C to help him deal with that anger or he is going to have to stop saying things to "punish" you or he will kill any chance of a future in a MR with you. A woman can just take so much. I do understand him wanting to punish you and as you probably know, a male ego is the most fragile thing in the world and his has been hurt very badly. They talk about a woman's scorn, but when a man has "lost face"........his ego takes a beating worse than anything we could do to them. I think they honestly have a harder time getting past the idea of another man touching their wife and the woman has about the man having an affair. Just my opinion.
There have been many posts written about how one spouse would have an A and then realize how badly they wanted their M to work. Then the LBS would leave and it would just be a mess......as you described about your own stitch. So, sweetie, you are not alone, by a long shot. BTW, don't be offended when I use the pet name of "sweetie".....I call almost everyone that. Only had one girl to get offended at me and told me she was not three years old and proceeded to throw a fit.....lol. Anyway, you'll know I like you when I call you that.....okay?
I hope we can become good friends b/c I think we both need that. I have learned that can happen right here on this bb b/c it has happen for me. There were some folks that came to my rescue Max, when I first came on board. I still had not completely given up the OM and was still contacting him. It was there wisdom and encouragement that turned me around. I was very mixed up and it scares me to think what I may have ended up doing if I had not found this board. Thank God, I did and they explained to me a lot of things I did not know and had never heard or read how the chemicals in the brain will fake you out and make you think you have "fallen in love" with this new person. Well, I knew he was just the result of a lot of resentment and unhappiness......and especially unfulfilled emotional needs in my life. The OM fed my ego and I got addicted real fast!
When I decided to break contact, it was one of the hardest things I had done.......and trust me, I have had to do some tough stuff before. I couldn't wait until I had reached my three month calendar mark b/c I had been told that was usually how long it took to get over an EA. They were wrong! It took me a very long time. One reason was b/c I was keeping it alive by fantasizing about it. One of the women on the board realized that I was keeping the EA alive in my mind. She was right. So, that was harder than letting go of him. Trying to control my thoughts and not allow myself to dream about him.......wow, tough stuff. I saw him as my knight in shining armour who was going to rescue me from my miserable life and give me all the things my H had never given me. How stupid I was not to see through him. I didn't want to believe he probably had a string of OW on line having EA's with them, just like he was with me. But, as time went on, and I was turning more emotionally to him for support instead of sexually, I begin to see he was not that concerned about all the "problems" in my life. Oh he pretended to be at first....and I loved it, but then he started to always get back to the "sex" and wanting to meet me in real life. So, frightening to think what all could have happened.
Anyway, I decided to stay in the M, but not b/c I felt the "in love" feelings for my H. I felt almost anything but that. It has been two years ago this month that I become involved with the OM for the first time. It has been such a gradual move forward with me and my H that I couldn't tell we were going anywhere until today. I think we made great stride today. But, it was me that just could not make myself do what I need to do.
Sorry, for being so long. You will discover that I write long posts. I will close for now, but I just wanted to meet you and tell you a little about my own stitch and that I think we could be friends. This board is not just for the LBS and there are several WAW's around here. It takes some time to find them. In the meantime, don't let anyone say something that will discourage you. I don't think I have ever had that to happen to me, but I have seen a few angry people that lashed out a time or two at others.
One more thing before I go. Michelle says that starting with a brand new mind set about the MR is often better than trying to piece back together what was once there. When there has been a lot of damage......that seems to make sense. A lot of people want to run away from their unhappy M and start over with a new person b/c it seems easier that way, but that isn't the answer. I hope that your H may finally come to that place where he can have a mind set of starting over brand new.
Hope you will write me back. Would love to chat more and find out more about your stitch. I will try to read more.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
1. Snapped having A with friends H jan 05 2. I lied and said it was only EA so did OM 3. H Moved out and he dragged me to C 4. H moved back home and stayed about 18 months i think 5. H left - got an apartement - shock for me. he did not believe it was only EA. C continued for him both as couple and individual. 6. 2008 I came clean about PA 7. H relieved to have the truth moved back home 8. 2 months later - 07/08 he moves out . Very angry about PA
OM has not come clean to his wife. I have no contact with them. My H says he will confront OM when he is ready. He cant stand the thought that the OM does not know that he knows the truth. He will go to OM wife as well. This will be devastating for me, my kids and our friends.
I do have many friends etc I just don't have anyone , as a best friend. I guess like you I shut them down before they get to close.
Oops have to go . Will get back o your reply soon.
Nothing good can come from confronting OM or his W. It won't give him the closure he needs. The only reason in my mind to ever contact OM or OMW is stop on ongoing A. Now that's over by your admission; he should leave it alone.
That's my opinion. But you can't control him. I just don't think he's going to like the reaction from you once he crosses this line.
I find it interesting the fact that you shut down before you have a friend get close. My W always said that she had trouble keeping girlfriends; that's why she chose to have guy friends. Trouble is, her guy friends....well you know!!
Good Night Max. It's late for me. gotta sleep and get kids off to school in the morning.
