W and I seperated in June after a big blow out with MIL. W ende up filling for D. We have been going to coaching, seeing each other as in dating and such. She seems to be doing the bare min in coaching. She does have me helping her at house with a lot of "chores" etc. She also has OM, not sure how serious they are. she tells me the other day, "I care but I don't think I can love you". Odd thing is that she had told me that she likes who I have become, treatment for anger issues, more than she ever has. She also allows me to be at the house a couple times a week. She is the type that if she didn't want somebody around she wouldn't let them be there. She also told coach two weeks ago that she does have hope for the future. Now this. I don't get it. I don't thing the walking a way from her would work on her as it gives her an easy out and wouldn't keep working on us. However I am feeling like she is getting her cake and eating it too. The OM thing is eating me up, I have lost 50+lbs since June and this doesn't help. Gotten to the point where I have even looked into suicide. I do call a friend or counciler when feeling this way but no sure how long I can put up with this without it ruining me mentally. Any ideas? What do you suggest with the W that says " I don't know if I can love you"? Keep trying, and for how long? Thanks in advance. If you want to know more back ground I posted back in July. Uneder"Scared of lossing wife"
There are a bunch of people here who can help you out and support you.
First thing from WMD... 'don't listen to anything your spouse says and only 50% of what she does'. There are hundreds of people on this board that have gotten the ILYBINILWY (I love you, but I'm not in love with you) talk. It is to be expected. She won't think she can love you until she does. And that will be awhile. Until then, she will continue to say it.
The first step is to become her friend and it sounds like you are making progress on that one. You must be 'friends' before things can have any chance to progress to love down the road.
I have lost 45 pounds since Aug 1, so I understand the weight loss aspect. But know that is a positive to your situation... you need to make yourself attractive to your spouse. (Assuming you don't lose too much weight and head into Anerexic land).
The support topic is tricky. It's great to show caring and support for your wife. But you need to do it in a way that portrays you as a strong, independent person who has a life of their own as well. You do not want to look like you are so desperate to be around her that you are willing to spend your days cleaning her toilets like a maid.
How have you been doing at GAL (Get a life)? You really need to find a way to make yourself 'whole' as an individual. Get out... do things on your own. Only then can you provide (some) support to your wife in a way that doesn't make you look desperate.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
I'll give you a perspective that I had. I went through the same thing with my ex. He wouldn't give up the OW. We separated on the notion that we needed time apart because we were just too angry at each other.
I lost tremendous amounts of weigh too with the constant worry, carpet bombs I had, etc. It was a situation that did involve more than yours...there was an addiction component to it. But we were separated and talking for the first 5-6 months. He was fence sitting. I didn't "get" it then I had to change. My thoughts then were to wait for HIM to realize his stupidity. I was very wrong.
I lost my faith over a few events that I just couldn't take any longer. Namely the OW was pretty flagrant...would call, email me, stalk me, etc. I was losing it and the ex would insist it was my fault we didn't get along. What a crock o'crap! I think I was being tested. I should have just gone dark on him completely and said "ok, I don't care what happens here." But instead, I kept plugged into his life when clearly things were too antagonistic.
Suicide is not the answer. No matter how this pans out, life awaits you. In the meantime, like techguy says...get yourself a life.
Cake eaters are very confused people. They will put you into some type of competition with the OM/OP. Don't think like that. What you are doing is great...treatment for anger, coaching, counseling. Still, you are focused on the R with your W. Broaden your perspective. Love yourself first. Get a life. Pick up an old hobby. Dig up old friends or buddies and go out to a ball game or shoot some pool and drinks some beers. Don't look pathetic in her eyes.
Don't even respond to the W's statements about what she thinks she can or can do re loving you. Don't even get involved in R talks with her now. In fact, it might be a good idea to disengage a bit wtih the chores at her house. That's encouraging the cake walking, no? Maybe...not now...but after you've got a bit of time here, get her involved in some interesting way in your life. Ask her to join in on one of your newly established activities if you can.
You need to get a life to stop this from mentally killing you. Your mind is spinning, like a hamster on a wheel. You need to stop that...your W most certainly has her radar about that and is picking up on it. You need to make yourself more attractive to her...not only physically but mentally and emotionally as well.
The hard part is that this stuff really is NOT intuitive. You need to resist doing what you most want to do right now...to restore the relationship back to where you're back together physically. That's not possible now. It probably took you a long time to get to this point. Time is your ally. It will take you a long time to have a new and improved M with your wife if things work out. You won't go back to the old M. You can't. If you want to remain married, you need to show her your changes and willingness to have a fluid and dynamic relationship.
I haven't been very good at all about GAL. My 180 has worked better but still don't have a "life" outside of us. I get enjoyment doing the things around the house that I used to and doing the rest of the chores. Knowing that I am making W's day a bit easier brings a happy smile to me. The problem is that that is my life. I do go to the gym etc but really have not found friends to hang out with or something else productive to do. I have started to do some dog training but that again is common with the W. We don't do it together however the dog I work is at the house again bringing me out there She has seen huge changes in my personality that she says she likes. She says she doesn't feel anything for me and doesn't know if she can. Hard part for me is stepping back and giving her space. In my mind that feels like walking away and I don't want to do that. We have gone toMC.She puts very minimal effort into it while I have done every assingnment and homework. Guess she will do it if she wants, just depressing seeing that she is not putting the effort into it. Every time we have done what MC has asked we have made positive strides, so it works. Maybe that is what she is affraid of, is that it does work. Then there is the thought of the OM. Makes it even harder to walk away and GAL when I feel I am competing with him for her. She did file for D in July. It should be final in about a month. She seems to smile when I say tha I am feeling positive about us. She even shows some affection on the couch when we are watching tv or a movie. Even will feed me. This is all very confusing as her signals to me are two faced. Not sure on day to the next if she wants me a round or not. Divorce will happen its the next R with her that we are working on. She has even jokes about our next M and just doing it at city hall. She does have depression too and refuses to get help beyond meds. She has many trust issues from the past as well as with me. Every time she say's " it won't help". So that is another aspect that I am dealing with. I know from the past few months eating crow and getting help for my issues, anger-bi-polar-depression-anxiety, that it does help. I still have a very long way to go. Will be a life long journey. Would hope that she would be able to take that same journey. What it comes down to is I DO need to GAL. All of this trying to help her and worry over OM has consumed me in un healthy was. Thanks for letting me vent and for your ideas. B
My wife has some of the same views wrt to D\re-marriage. She's even said to me: I just want some closure, but if I divorce you then you won't take me back.
Kind of messed up in my mind. We are just starting the D process. She acknowledges that we may have some chance long term, but wants to drag me and the kids through a D just to get 'closure'. Hmmm...
Keep working on GAL stuff. Take a class? Religion? Volunteer somewhere?
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
This week has been better. Monday we had a great dinner and watched tv. Last Thurs the coach told me to hint to her how much she needs me to help her around the house. So I asked her in a silly way, "who takes care of you the best?". She smiled and said "you" then thanked me for all that I had done for her that day. Went to leave gave a short hug, in the past I have tried to give longer hugs, but this was short. She gave me an odd look, like she was confused. Turned around said good night and walked out the door. Next day when she came home from work I was working in the garden, she came out to help. We also took two of the dogs for a long, 7 mile, walk. This was the best time we have had with each other in years. The converstion was smooth, friendly, she mad eye contact, shared how she has been feeling about life, joked around, talked about the future(garden, dogs, yard). All in all it was as if we were best friends again. We both even wrote that in our home work for coaching. Another thing she did was do her home work from coaching on her own one day that I was at work. That was neat to see that she had done that without me reminding her. Weds. I did the "I have plans" thing when she came home. We talked a bit and I said I need to go and have a great night. Again she gave a puzzled look. She wrote that down in her homework, that I gave her space without asking. FYI. the home work is to write things that the partner did that day to make you feel loved. Fun idea, everybody should try it. I think it makes her see that I do a lot for her and she does, despite what she says, show love for me. Thurs I made her dinner and we watched tv. She snuggled up to me on the couch and had me hold her in my arms. As soon as the show was over I got up and said I need to go. Short hug. This time she held on a bit longer and even layed her head on my shoulder. As well as the puzzeled look. Earlier that night I had come from therapy. She noticed something was wrong. We ended up talking about what had happened in therapy. Therapy, basically told me to move on that she is a lost cause. I dissagree. Anyway, we got into the R talk. She says she doesn't know if she will love me but appreciates my changes and my effort. I think I shocked her when I said that even if she asked me today to move back in that I wouldn't. Third puzzeled look of the week. She asked why and almost seem hurt. I told her I have more work to do on myself and that she needs to get help with her mental issue. She agreed. Told her I don't even think that six months down the road would I be ready. Said earliest would be next summer. She got a huge look of relief. Asked as much an she said that is a huge load off of her thinking that I am in a hurry. Asked her that since I am doing this for me and us if she would commit to getting help. Told her I could walk away a lot easier if she could, with a clear head, tell me she didn't want me. She agreed. Even asked if she could see my Psych nurse. Now the follow through will be the test. Anyway all in all a good week. She admits that I take care and know her the best. She likes that.She is showing signs, again, of going to go get help for her issues. She is acting more like my best friend and not the mad WAW. Don't get me wrong that part of her shows through but is starting to get shadowed by the friend. Some very positive signs this week. Hope that I can stay the course and keep them rolling. Only time will tell.
As you note, the key is to show yourself as a strong, independent person. You're showing your independence and strength when you avoid being clingy.
Smooth move getting her to go to doctor. Hopefully she follows through.
The surprised looks are an excellent gauge of progress. The surprises don't even have to directly relate to your W or R. For example, I gave up my raging diet coke addiction post-bomb. Wife was over picking up some stuff and I told her to go ahead and take a couple of 12-packs we had in the garage. She asked why and I told her I now only drink water or milk. Her jaw just dropped.
Keep being a mysterious man. Keep her guessing a bit. These things are your friends.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
We went to coaching the other day. I had been feeling sorry for myself for doing everything I have been doing with no much in return from W. I ended up confronting her during coaching and gace her a challenge. The challenge is to do one loving thing for me each day. Going back to what work or what has been working and do it. Said I am not asking for much just one thoughtful thing a day. A phone call to just say hi, or a txt saying same, making a pie, rubbing my shoulders, going for a walk with me etc. Something small, baby steps. We have learned in class that one way to get love back is to serve the other person in some way each day. The thought is that by serving you begin to love. Thats what we all did in the begining of our R's we serve, they serve us and we were happy. I have found that by doing all the things I am doing that I am feeling more love for my W that ever before. At times I wonder if it is enough to gain her love back. Then there are times that I get a bit upset that she is not putting more effort into this. I know she will have to make that choice for her self. Guess that is the hard part, her opening up to loving me again. She says I would make the perfect husband now and that she like how my personality has changed to be much more calm and accepting. Any body have a magic pill?:) Byron
It's great to give her suggestions during C. But be very carefull on how you present them. It would be very, very easy to come off as pathetic or pursuing.
DB'ing is very hard work. You try and try and try. But in the end the WAW has to come to her own decisions about when to respond. You just can't rush it.
Keep working...
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
It has been a while and thought I would share how things have been going. The past month has been a good month if you will. W and I have been spending a lot of time together. I can feel that she is gaining more trust and feeling more comfortable around me. We started going on a very long walk one day a week. These walks are very relaxing, we talk like we are best friends, both enjoying them very much. Around end of Oct. we had a couple dinner dates where I made different soups. She would leave the recipes out on the table in the morning and when I got there I would go to store and get stuff. It woudl be done for her when she got home from work. This seemed to work very well for us. She was filling in her daily homework even before I could get to it. That is a change from when I would leave it out on the table as a hint for her. I also started dating two weeks ago. I noticed that W became a bit jealous. This was a great feeling, felt like I had some "power" now. A week later I took one of our dogs to California to a dog trial. This was huge for both me and W. First for me, going there alone, following through with the trainging and not asking her for help. For W it was a huge trust builder as this dog is her "baby". She would call us every night to get updates and text a couple times a day as well. Even told me before we left she would miss both the dog and me. The same time I was taking the dog her mother was in town. This was my chance to show how my anger issue's have been doing. Day before she got here I cleaned the house spotless. Bought flowers and put them in the guest bedroom, guest bathroom, and W's bedroom and bathroom. MIL came the next morning and thanked W for the flowers. W said she didn't put them there, told her I had. MIL gave a funny look and walked away not saying a thing. Next day I needed to pick up the dog for training. MIL left for a bit and while she was gone I picked up dog from W. Had a great conversation while I was there, brought her her fav coffee. MIL gets home after I leave and W tells her not to worry about dog getting into food. MIL asked why, W told her I had the dog. Another funny look and silence. Next day W told MIL that I would be out to take care of the livestock and the dogs(4). MIL wasn't happy with this but didn't get in the way. I am very proud of W for finally standing up to her mother. This is the first time since I have know W that she has done this. So I come back from California. The whole trip home I felt like I didn't want to go back that something wasn't right. Well I should listen to my gut. Get home, W goes for a run. I go to take out the garbage and there is a condom wrapper in the garbage. Now I have known that she has been with OM on and off since July. This time hurt veru bad. Not sure why it hurt me this time but I lost it. Sromed out of the house, she called and asked where I went. Ended up coming back and confronting her about it. She wouldn't say a thing. Told her how hurt I was and how selfish I feel that she won't put the effort into "us" that she is into OM. Well this started a three day fight that more of less ended in our coaching session. Told her I can't do this if she continues to see OM. She gets very defensive and says that she doesn't trust me now because I got angry about this. ??? I did get angry but never in the way I have in the past. I expressed my feelings but never raised my voice or said demeaning things to her. Kinda feel I have the right to get a bit upset about this! So in coaching she says we need to stop seeing each other so much. She says only two days a week now. Had been up to five. This has been a huge blow to me and I know we have taken a step back but I see so there is hope. She even admitted last coaching and this coaching that there is hope. The past week she has called me and just chatted. Even called me while I was at work and asked how my day was. Hasn't done that for a very long time, over a year. When she has called its not the quick call, it lingers. You know when you just talk about nothing and then there is silence, but comfortable silence. No rush to get off phone. This has me all very confused. I am finally starting to get a life by dating and spending more time on me. I know this is helping. The issue I have is the OM. I am having a very hard time dealing with this. Lost ten pounds in a week and only had six hours of sleep total that whole week. Not good for me at all. Roller coaster!! Am I on the right track by getting a life but still holding on to hope? I feel and see the hope yet I don't know how long I can with the OM in the picture. Sorry for such a long post. B
