I am so sorry for you about your dog. That is a hard thing to add to your situation.
You had responded to me on a different thread, asking about specific examples of being ignored, etc during my marriage. My H also says I read things into what he says, insisting he doesn't mean anything by it, yet other observers have said that he does in fact use insulting, bossy tones of voice. Listening to you it makes me wonder if he really really doesn't know that. It must be frustrating if you feel your W is being vague about what's wrong. I have tried to be specific with my H, though he will almost always claim he doesn't remember.
Some examples: Ignored: If I was speaking to him he would either totally ignore me, start talking to one of the kids or even the dog, change subject and start talking to ME while I'm in midsentence, or just turn to me and say "I don't care about that." (Can't get anymore blunt than that, huh?) If he does answer me it is very gruff, like I am an annoying fly...What? When I would tell him I was lonely and he didn't listen to me, he said no one would want to talk to me. All I do is "run my mouth." I'm sure he couldn't tell you a single detail about my life.
Criticized: We have fought constantly over housework. He wants the house perfectly clean at all times and doesn't care if someone's sick or we've been at practice every night of the week, etc. He will not accept "excuses." He has told me to my face that "the only way to get a person to do something is to criticize them..." I pointed out that he's been criticizing for 14 years and it doesn't seem to be working. He frequently says he's trying "to help me" with his criticism. He acts like a martyr a lot of the time.
Devalued: I would say the above categories have made me feel devalued, but it includes other things like wishing I would dye my hair black...(I have auburn hair). That might sound petty, but it's a subtle example of him consistently implying I'm not acceptable the way I am. He's complained about my prescription medicine costing him money. I was in a car accident and when I called to tell him, the first words out of his mouth were "you know that's going to make my insurance go up, don't you?" Ignoring things like Mother's Day (we have two kids), bringing home an old printer from work and giving it to me for Christmas (we aren't poor), buying me whatever crap he can find at a convenience store for a birthday gift, etc.
Now I will point out that he isn't always like this. Sometimes he is sweet and nice and loving. Some years he might give me a nice gift for a holiday. Some years he acts like it is an absolute inconvenience. Small example, his parents were taking us to Mexico on vacation last February, the week of Valentine's Day. While planning for the trip he suddenly says...I don't have to get you anything for Valentine's Day, right? Since we're going to Mexico? ??? As if he was taking me there. I said...well, I'd like a card. And he said What??? In Spanish? I said you have NINE days to buy a card! Like I wanted a card from him after that. So then on the day, he gives me two cards. And one for every person in the family.
It isn't not receiving gifts that is the problem, it's the attitude that he doesn't want to be bothered about it that upsets me. Receiving gifts isn't even one of my love languages, but his attitude is very hurtful. He also refuses to accept gifts, or says he didn't want anything.
I just never know which side of his personality I'm going to get. But his mood controls all situations.
Don't know if that's helpful at all. I haven't told my story here yet, so I feel like that was just a bunch of complaining.
Your honesty about your situation is humbling, and I feel awful about how you have been treated.
Thanks for being so kind as to take the time to help me understand what you might be feeling.
'If I was speaking to him he would either totally ignore me, start talking to one of the kids or even the dog, change subject and start talking to ME while I'm in midsentence, or just turn to me and say "I don't care about that.""
This would hurt a great deal. It is hard to excuse any of this. I makes me wonder though, if this is what he grew up with. Still not an excuse. Regarding talking to you while you are in midsentence, I can identify with that, in the sense that I sometimes find it hard to control my mouth and get excited and want to add something. It is hard for me to really listen. One of my brothers is just like this too, and so is my father. I think we all have some mild form of ADD. If not, at least it is a self-control issue. And I do have a short term memory problem. I think it was because of something I smoked in HS.
"the only way to get a person to do something is to criticize them..."
This is simply a bad, bad idea and an awful way to motivate anyone. I've been listening to Ellen Kriedman's tape series 'Light Her Fire', and it talks about how to encourage certain behaviors in children and I guess mates, and I like what she says: ' the best way to help someone to change is to catch them in the act of being good and praise them for it'. I am applying this to my D6 and looking for ways to apply it to W.
H needs to bring that one up in counselling and let the counsellor slap him back to Timbuktu.
I am the neat freak around my house, but I gave up a long time ago trying to get W to help me do anything. I dealt with it badly early on and until I got the tape series above, had no strategy for getting W to help out. I have just shouldered the burden myself and felt resentful.
Does he expect you to do all the housework ? Even if he is the primary breadwinner ( I don't know if he is) he should do some of the housework. I don't know, maybe make a list together and let him choose his chores?
When W wants me to change in some way, when she is really upset, she shouts me down. Or used too. It was a serious power play, and it never motivated me to change, only to focus on her apparant anger issues.
I would have responded better to an appeal for my help in some way that would make her happy. Because I would have given anything to know how to make her happy.
'but it includes other things like wishing I would dye my hair black...(I have auburn hair). That might sound petty, but it's a subtle example of him consistently implying I'm not acceptable the way I am.'
I married a brunette, because I have always loved brunettes. I don't understand where he is coming from on this one, but I can see how it would make you feel.
Does he know that's what he makes you feel like?
Regarding the insurance stuff, totally inappropriate on his part.
Gifts and special occasions. This is where I have totally blown in with my W. I am not a gifts person (love language speaking) and my W is. So of course, my gift giving has been sporadic. And I don't receive them well either. I guess I am 'giving challanged'. I have gotten better, but maybe too late.
Your post was helpful to me. I did not find it complaining at all, but very insightful. I wish my W was able to put her hurts and dissapointments with me so clearly into thought.
Initially she would use hurtful comparisons to motivate me to change. Later she would get angry and blast me. Then she just kept it to herself. I don't know about your H, but I really think that the way she approached her hurts did a lot to push me away or kill my motivation to make real changes.
I really would have liked her to put it in the form of 'This is how you could make me happy...because what you are doing really hurts, even though you may not realize it.'
I would like to think that this would have worked better.
By way of admission, I only recently began to bring my needs to her in this way, as I began to learn it. But by that time, she no longer cared about my needs.
In fact, she says that thought the last 4 years have been better, the first 2 she can't get over.
Can I get a 'do-over'?
Last edited by native; 10/12/0804:08 AM.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
Buck, the dog who we had to put to sleep, was a super sweet lab/rot mix given to me by a friend of mine. He was one of a litter of about 9. I remember going to pick one out. At first, the only difference were the markings.
But then one of them I picked up just decided to follow me.
And he came home with me.
I do miss my dog, as do W and D6. Even though he was in pain and in a strange place ( the overnight vet clinic) he never bit or snapped at anyone, only trusted that everyone loved him and was his friend.
If there is a heaven for dogs, he is there....
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
I went out and bought some new clothes the night my W told me she was reawakening sexually, only she wasn't attracted to me. (I never buy new clothes for me. W has so many clothes it is unreal).
That night I had been invited to have dinner with W, her mom, Brother and SIL and my D. but I bowed out. I didn't feel like being there with a shotgun blast to my heart, so I went clothes shopping. Oh yeah, also got some hair color to remove the little bit of gray on my temples, and give my hair just a little more fullness. And a few other manly makeover products, just to experiment.
Went to Macy's and they had a great sale on a brand name called Alfani. Fairly cool stuff, and since I am a U2 fan, just one year younger than Bono, I put together my rock & roll look, something I had left behind about 12 yrs. ago.
New cool,longsleeve black shirt with small white designs, black leather rockport shoes, some Levi 514 slim straight jeans and fuller, nicer looking hair. With my black sunglasses and a jacket my brother gave me ( I will go back for the Alfani leather jacket later), I am going to rock baby ! (And I can rock a baby....) Yeah, I feel cool....
After applying all the personal grooming products, dressing up, I came in the room and showed my D (she had gone on the second excursion tonight to help me get the jeans and shoes).
Her little eyes lit up and said I looked awesome !
Thank God for daughters !
All of this I will wear for a big baby shower/family gathering of my W's SIL tomorrow (Sunday), the ones I missed eating dinner with a week ago.
If W doesn't notice me, someone else will !
Last edited by native; 10/12/0806:06 AM.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
I went out and bought some new clothes the night my W told me she was reawakening sexually, only she wasn't attracted to me. (I never buy new clothes for me. W has so many clothes it is unreal).
That night I had been invited to have dinner with W, her mom, Brother and SIL and my D. but I bowed out. I didn't feel like being there with a shotgun blast to my heart, so I went clothes shopping. Oh yeah, also got some hair color to remove the little bit of gray on my temples, and give my hair just a little more fullness. And a few other manly makeover products, just to experiment.
Went to Macy's and they had a great sale on a brand name called Alfani. Fairly cool stuff, and since I am a U2 fan, just one year younger than Bono, I put together my rock & roll look, something I had left behind about 12 yrs. ago.
New cool,longsleeve black shirt with small white designs, black leather rockport shoes, some Levi 514 slim straight jeans and fuller, nicer looking hair. With my black sunglasses and a jacket my brother gave me ( I will go back for the Alfani leather jacket later), I am going to rock baby ! (And I can rock a baby....) Yeah, I feel cool....
After applying all the personal grooming products, dressing up, I came in the room and showed my D (she had gone on the second excursion tonight to help me get the jeans and shoes).
Her little eyes lit up and said I looked awesome !
Thank God for daughters !
All of this I will wear for a big baby shower/family gathering of my W's SIL tomorrow (Sunday), the ones I missed eating dinner with a week ago.
If W doesn't notice me, someone else will !
Awesome native! The best part is that not only will she notice, she'll notice other people noticing! Worth its weight in gold, I say.
I will get back to you later about your response to my posts. Have to get to kids' games atm...
Also, I put the rest of my story on the newcomers thread, under Scared but ready to try...if you are interested. I am feeling humiliated about some of the things I told, but I know this is the only place to tell it and move forward.
So, wife did notice and made comments on my clothing more than once.
But the neatest thing is that I felt very confident and attractive and that made me more outgoing and not the least bit self-pitying.
If anything, my whole positive, relaxed demeanor was in such contrast to her miserable state that I'm sure it made quite an impression.
It was clear we had not come together to this event (she drove up the night b4 to comfort a cousin whose H had left her; how ironic) because she did not make any attempt to look nice at all.
By awkward circumstance I ended up driving W and child back home 1 1/2 hrs. away. That wasn't my first choice but its a long story.
Ended up having a bit of a 'future' talk, but during the talk, she showed her aggravation and frustration much more than I would have liked. I didn't bite, but remained calm.
Truth is, if it weren't for our child, I'd gladly send her packing......her coping mechanisms and attitude, and the general cloud of unhappiness that she floats in is not a cakewalk.
But I will say that I felt fairly detached from all of the negative aspects and did not get drawn into her world of woe.
I validated and listened as well as I was able.
All in all, an intersting day.
Last edited by native; 10/13/0810:59 AM.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
W was packing her things here at the house tonight to move into her own space a few blocks away, within walking distance.
We did talk for a while and got more insight into her reasons for leaving. Seems she thinks I changed from the person I was before marriage (more objective and considerate) to post marriage ( more subjective and reactive).
I have a feeling that is true about us and about most marraiges. Being in a R changes you, and you are invested in ways you weren't as a friend. You are more vulnerable and your feelings are more easily hurt, misunderstandings more common.
Does anyone agree ? Disagree ?
Sometimes she is adamant about no R, and then she seems to waver after we get past the hard shell and the fear.
I was even flirty and seductive, eventually hugging and kissing her neck, she was giggling and smiling and I think I got through the defensive walls for a few moments.
If I can do that again and keep letting her imagine how good it would be, who knows? I can't say how good it was, because we always had problems with sex, partly my inexperience and partly her rapes.
It's not that I don't know how, its I haven't known how to set the stage for someone who has had such severe sexual trauma in her past. I haven't been romantic enough, patient enough, and in general careful enough with her feelings and needs.
Tonight may not be enough to turn this around, but it was a little bit of a step in the right direction.
Last edited by native; 10/15/0802:54 AM.
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
Tonight in conversation, W says I should not have taken her (multiple times) sexual rejection personally. She seems to think that most guys would not take it personally.
Is that true ?
Me 47, W 32,D 6, Met 11 yrs. ago, M 7 Bomb 4/08/08, Sep. 8/10/08, Div. 8/10/09
Worth its weight in gold, I say.