I guess it's over

[NikB]

Hey Trixi - sounds pretty good! Glad you have a potential client soon. I'm in the financial services industry so I feel your pain! Think between the two of us we're in the two hardest hit industries right now.

I forgot to mention, Italian sounds wonderful!! Did you know that meetup is international? I have a new-ish friend who took a trip - on her own!! - to France recently. Before leaving she joined some meetups, mostly focused on either Americans living in France or French people learning English. She got to know a number of people that way and they actually helped plan her trip, including sites to see, inexpensive but nice hostels to stay at, etc. By the time she got there she had several "online" friends she was excited to meet IRL, and had an incredible trip. Maybe, just maybe, you could start some very early planning for a trip to Italy? (I know, $$ permitting, that's why I said very early ).

[Trixi]

I wish the financial market wasn't in such a tizzy. So much of the "problem" is actually caused by panic being compounded on itself and not really reality. Even I am freaking out; but that is because I feel helpless as I watch other people freak out and do things that perpetuate the downward spiral. I wish everyone would just chill out and take a step back and not knee-jerk.
I see this sort of like when one spouse criticizes the other one over and over and the criticized spouse's self esteem takes a beating and they start to really believe the criticism. Even if it isn't based in reality. And then, that poor spouse starts to act in ways that "validate" the negative comments. Sigh.

Anyhoo-this financial sitch is NOT helping me do what I know I need to do. And that is file.

I decided to pull up all my posts on this board. I started posting here in December of 2004. August of 2005 he was saying he didn't think he wanted to be married- THREE years ago. (And before that, too, but I mostly was struck how August seems to be a really bad time of year for us.)

I have been fighting this battle for OVER three years. And as I go back and read about him staying out til 4am with no phone call and then telling me that "that's just how he is" I can see that he was trying to get me to do the dirty work.

He would get hot and cold over and over. And when he was 'hot' it would "feed" me enough to try to stick it out thru the 'cold'. Sort of like this year. He came back with enthusiasm and gusto. Made it seem like I was *Finally* going to be able to stop this train. And then he flakes out.

I love him deeply, but I will no longer be played/used.

I need to accept that he is not capable of being married (to me at the very least, and maybe not to anyone.) This really IS all about him and not about ME. Not to say I am perfect; but I have given all I had (and more) to try to put our marriage on the right track.
And somehow, he ALWAYS tries to blame ME for this not working out and how I shouldn't have 'let' him do things or I should have 'made' him not want to go out. OMG! I have been hearing this for OVER THREE YEARS! How could I be SO blind??

What else I discovered,in reviewing my old posts, is that I would feel like I was at the end of my rope and I would say that I didn't think I could go on much longer--and yet, here I am THREE years later! Holy CRAP!

But now I am SO afraid of the financial sitch it is hard for me to want to press forward.

If it really DOES take two years from the divorce decree to heal, I want to get on with it. I am still sad/disappointed/feel-like-I-failed-somehow that the sitch has come to this, but what else can I do???

[NikB]

Trixi... long post warning, I'm dedicating my lunch hour to you. (OK well lunch 20 minutes which is about all I have time for lately!).

I wish the financial market wasn't in such a tizzy. So much of the "problem" is actually caused by panic being compounded on itself and not really reality.

Totally agree!! I can't believe how many people are selling their stocks/mutual funds/401Ks - taking huge losses and tax hits and all kinds of stuff. Yeah my 401K is down by like 20%.. who cares? The money's only a loss on paper until you sell it! I actually wish I had more available cash to invest right now.. sooo many things are under-valued, and I really think people who are investing wisely are going to make a fortune when the market turns around. I'm sure you see it in real estate too - there are some serious bargains to be had, if you've got the free cash.

OK sorry.. rant over..

I decided to pull up all my posts on this board. I started posting here in December of 2004. August of 2005 he was saying he didn't think he wanted to be married- THREE years ago. (And before that, too, but I mostly was struck how August seems to be a really bad time of year for us.)

Wow... as much as I've followed your story I didn't realize it was THAT long ago. By the time you got here in 2004 I'm sure you knew something wasn't right and hadn't been for awhile - so you've actually been at this for almost 4 years. Plus however long before that things felt "off." ((((Trixi)))) I am so sorry, that is a very long time!

Interesting that you see a pattern in August. Are there big dates in August, like anniversaries? Our "bad" time was October for 2 years.. right after my birthday and same month as our anniversary. (THIS October's finally been good, thank goodness!). I just find the patterns really strange.

And as I go back and read about him staying out til 4am with no phone call and then telling me that "that's just how he is" I can see that he was trying to get me to do the dirty work.

Maybe.. or being really immature just to see how much he could get away with.

I love him deeply, but I will no longer be played/used.

Good for you!!

Now.. figure out what it is that gives you this "girl power" and find ways you can enhance it.

Maybe not the most positive thing in the world but for awhile there singing along at the top of my lungs to "To the Left" and "Next Time That He Cheats" were both very therapeutic and got me thinking "Damn right I'm worth more than this!"

What does it for you?

Whatever "it" is - I suggest doing/saying/singing it daily for awhile, or even more often. Sometimes you'll already feel strong anyway, but this will help you KEEP that going on the days when you start off feeling a little weaker. Make sense?

I need to accept that he is not capable of being married (to me at the very least, and maybe not to anyone.) This really IS all about him and not about ME. Not to say I am perfect; but I have given all I had (and more) to try to put our marriage on the right track.

You are so right about all of this.

My Dad told me last night about an interesting "exercise" his C made him do, which was to step back and look at the situation objectively and write out some "cold hard truths" about it. (for reference he's been separated from my stepmom for about 18 months and they're just now filing for D and he found out she's started dating - so he's been kind of a wreck). Now he's supposed to be reading these daily until they sink in. He said his logical side finally gets it, and "emotions follow logic" - his emotions are getting there.

His cold hard truths were:

1. WAW does not love, admire, or respect me.
2. WAW felt that she had no other choice but to leave. She did not believe things could be different, and she will never believe that.
3. She is not coming back.
4. I deserve to be with someone who loves, admires, and respects me.
(he had a few more but these were the ones that struck me)

I nearly cried my eyes out listening to all this but it was interesting how detached he sounded about it all. Not "numb" detached, but "acceptance and letting go" detached.

I also found #3 interesting. Reading it by itself it sounds positive but it becomes a "cold hard truth" when the one you love isn't reciprocating... woah.

I think your "truths" are a little different, but thought I'd share my Dad's exercise in hopes it might help you too.

And somehow, he ALWAYS tries to blame ME for this not working out and how I shouldn't have 'let' him do things or I should have 'made' him not want to go out. OMG!

Which brings me to... cold hard truth #1 in your sitch (IMO) is that your H is irresponsible and immature, and shows no signs of changing that. Given what you've been through, even if he DID change it, what would it take for you to trust the change? Months? Years? He's shown he can string you along for quite awhile, so I think it would take a LONG time for you to trust it.

I have been hearing this for OVER THREE YEARS! How could I be SO blind??

Cause ya love the man and you have a very kind, generous, caring heart! So generous that you'll give when you shouldn't anymore. (((Trixi)))

What else I discovered,in reviewing my old posts, is that I would feel like I was at the end of my rope and I would say that I didn't think I could go on much longer--and yet, here I am THREE years later! Holy CRAP!

That's a great realization, I think.. in good and bad ways. I hope it helps give you some kind of clarity on what to do now.

But now I am SO afraid of the financial sitch it is hard for me to want to press forward.

Have you checked into the legalities in your state?

I know when my parents D'd there was a "clause" where my Dad didn't have to pay spousal support after my Mom finished school and became employed - but if something happens to where she's laid off or otherwise unable to work she gets temporary support. You might be able to do something like this? Or, would you get a chunk of cash in the D that would give you a cushion?

If it really DOES take two years from the divorce decree to heal, I want to get on with it. I am still sad/disappointed/feel-like-I-failed-somehow that the sitch has come to this, but what else can I do???

I doubt it's got much to do with the decree - my bet is it has more to do with fully accepting and letting go. And I DO think you're getting there, as hard as it is.

YOU did not fail in your R or M. Sad and disappointed I totally understand - but you have done everything you could and then some. Your H is missing out on a wonderful, kind, generous, dedicated, loyal, loving, (and I could go on!) woman.

I know this is so tremendously sad but I also know you can pick yourself up and move forward - and eventually have someone in your life who actually DESERVES you.

(((Trixi)))

[AliSuddenly]

Hey Trixi,

I have been reading, lurking even and I'm sorry you are slowly coming to terms with the idea of D. You dont say, but, are you still in touch with him now or have you not spoken? (I think you said you were going dark a few pages back). Of course you would hang on for 3 years, is not as if he had completely checked out of the R (as my ex has!) so there was some hope there.

I understand that you feel like you failed, I do too, we all do, but its a funny kind of failure isnt it? If it was an exam, you could set your heart on it, know what to do, work hard and get the result you wanted. We are all trying to do the same, but the ones we are trying to do our best for, dont want to hear it. Thats human nature, so in that respect, you havent failed, you just tried really hard, but the outcome was the same, thats all.

Have you thought about doing ...nothing? Stay dark, but dont push the D either? Just let him be, see if he misses you? Risky I know.

Ali xxx

[Trixi]

Trixi... long post warning, I'm dedicating my lunch hour to you. (OK well lunch 20 minutes which is about all I have time for lately!).

Thanks Nik- your posts mean a lot to me.

Now.. figure out what it is that gives you this "girl power" and find ways you can enhance it.

Maybe not the most positive thing in the world but for awhile there singing along at the top of my lungs to "To the Left" and "Next Time That He Cheats" were both very therapeutic and got me thinking "Damn right I'm worth more than this!"

What does it for you?

Hmmm...very good question. I am really going to have to think on that...Actually, there is a certain 'agressiveness' to the Nickelback "Silver Side Up" CD that gets me feeling pretty fiesty/angry. Especially "Never Again". (I was never abused, but still I can relate to the feeling of not taking any more crap.)

I will have to see what else I can think of that gives me "Girl Power". I love that.

I also found #3 interesting. Reading it by itself it sounds positive but it becomes a "cold hard truth" when the one you love isn't reciprocating... woah.

I think your "truths" are a little different, but thought I'd share my Dad's exercise in hopes it might help you too.

Yeah, I guess I could say that all these years, he H never came back. He came back just enough to keep me on the string. But, to coin a term from a best-seller- "He's just not that into me". That still feels a bit like a commentary on who *I* am- like I couldn't keep him because *I* lacked something..but hopefully, in time, I will be able to really see and feel that it was HIM that lacked something. Intellectually, I can say that; but emotionally, I haven't fully embraced the concept.

Have you checked into the legalities in your state?

I put in a call to an attorney I was referred to, but she hasn't called me back. I'm not interested in some knockdown drag out fight. I just want what is rightfully mine. I think he is of the same frame of mind. It's a community property/no-fault state, so it should be fairly easy to hash out the details since we don't have any underage children.

YOU did not fail in your R or M. Sad and disappointed I totally understand - but you have done everything you could and then some. Your H is missing out on a wonderful, kind, generous, dedicated, loyal, loving, (and I could go on!) woman.

I know this is so tremendously sad but I also know you can pick yourself up and move forward - and eventually have someone in your life who actually DESERVES you.

Thanks for that. I still cry, but not as often and not as hard.

Hi Ali- I'm still lurking on your sitch- I don't post as I don't feel I have anything to offer because I know what my current frame of mind is-- and my current frame of mind is that a guy will do ANYthing to be with the woman he truly loves. I mean, think about it; when you REALLY *want* to be with someone, you make the time. There's not a continuous stream of excuses "I'm jamming; I need to do 'stuff' around the house; I'm going to go and do __fill in blank with fun stuff w/friends__ and then I can come over." Whatever. That's all I was worth to him; to be squeezed into his busy schedule. I should have been at the top of the list with him scheduling AROUND time with me.

So, now I am waiting for the accountant to figure out our 2007 taxes because if we owe, we will pay out of the refund check that he just received for 2006. I will need to see him so he can give me my portion and I think we have to sign something for the accountant.
After that, I don't believe we will have any more need for contact; well, except for anything that has to do with D.

It will still sting when actual action is taken to move towards D, but I guess I need to see it like a necessary evil.

I could just leave it alone; I certainly appreciate having my health insurance covered... but I think I need to take control of my life. Can I do that and NOT file? I dunno.

[NikB]

((Trixi))

Hope your weekend's going well.

Nickleback's good! I spent much of last spring/summer singing "Rockstar" way too loudly while cruising around with the convertible top down. That's more along the lines of just PMA boosting as opposed to "girl power' but I figure both are good!

Trying to think what other songs I liked...

"Man, I Feel Like a Woman"'s a good one. Funny that two of the three songs I listed are country since I pretty much dislike 99% of country music! Guess some of those country gals know how to write "girl power" well, though.

That still feels a bit like a commentary on who *I* am- like I couldn't keep him because *I* lacked something..but hopefully, in time, I will be able to really see and feel that it was HIM that lacked something. Intellectually, I can say that; but emotionally, I haven't fully embraced the concept.

Or.. maybe neither of you lack anything, exactly, you just don't "fit" because of different values. You want a committed, monogomous, loving R. He wants to be "free" and uncommitted, a "friends with benefits" R that doesn't require anything of him. Doesn't work for you (nor would it work for about 99% of women, but that's another story).

Personally it makes me want to say "GROW UP!" but his response to that might well be - Why? If that's how he wants to live and if it works for him, why change it? The obvious answer, to me, is that he's missing out on a potentially great R with a great woman, and he'll never really be able to find that stability. But his choice.. maybe that's not what he wants.

I'm not interested in some knockdown drag out fight. I just want what is rightfully mine. I think he is of the same frame of mind. It's a community property/no-fault state, so it should be fairly easy to hash out the details since we don't have any underage children.

You'd think so... and I hope you're right, but I thought this would be the case for us too and I was surprised at some of what got pretty contentious with H even just in casual conversation, without ever getting to the point of filing anything. Hopefully it won't though.

Just be sure that if you're legally entitled to it, you have some kind of protection financially. I saw you mentioned health insurance too - losing that's a big deal, so maybe you can negotiate something with that - worth asking about.

I'm glad you're crying less often and less hard! You deserve happiness, Trixi - you really do.

I think I need to take control of my life. Can I do that and NOT file? I dunno.

Only you can probably truly answer that question. I'd ask differently, can you let him go without the paperwork? Truly let him go? If you can, you can always hold off on the filing. If you need the paperwork to move on mentally/emotionally, then maybe it is in fact time to file.

How long's the waiting period in your state? That might be a consideration, too.

((Trixi))

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.

[Trixi]

Only you can probably truly answer that question. I'd ask differently, can you let him go without the paperwork? Truly let him go? If you can, you can always hold off on the filing. If you need the paperwork to move on mentally/emotionally, then maybe it is in fact time to file.

How long's the waiting period in your state? That might be a consideration, too.

Waiting period is only 90 days.
I think that I still have this little ember of denial/hope; that he will somehow realize that he is making a terrible mistake and turn around. (You know, all those stories where the WAS changes their mind at the 11th hour.)
I anticipate that concrete moves towards D will hurt a great deal--even if intellectually I know it is for the best.

I've been checking out a dating site (not match as I don't want to accidentally see his profile) and many of the men say that the lady must not be married. And, I am married, technically.
And I don't blame them, either.

Now, I haven't posted a profile as I know I am not ready--but, when I am ready, I don't want my legal status to stand in my way of meeting quality people. KWIM?

OTOH, I still love my H. I would love to actually build a life with him. WHY can't I just see the reality????? I mean, I do see it-- but then I fall back into this fantasy world of when we were dating earlier this year. A fantasy world of him actually DOING something to be with ME. Silly, I know.
Letting go sure is hard.

On a different note; the guy I met at Wednesday's meetup came over on Saturday to bring me the letters and ended up taking my mower with him so he could fix it. We originally were going to have me buy a mower, but nothing was on sale and he thought it would be much better to just fix it. He did get it done, so now I just need to get it back from him. It was nice to hang out with him.

My xbf has ticked me off to the point I am now invisible when I go online. He got way too needy and clingy. gross. Now I understand how H felt. Sorta. The difference is that I don't owe xbf anything since we aren't married. I feel like I don't know the xbf anymore (or him, me) so it is very inappropriate to talk such a permanent future. (ie, "We'll get married; I'll move into your house") YUCK.

"Non-date" meetup guy and I are still logging lots of IM time. I enjoy him a great deal. I know at some point he will find a GF--that will sort of suck. (And here way have ANOTHER instance where I can relate to my H. H doesn't want to lose me, but he doesn't really want me, either.) I really like that non-date guy likes me and he is a blast to talk to; but he isn't 'the one'. So, I know that he needs to go and find 'the one' and I will be a bit bummed because I know that I won't get as much 'time' with him.

I have to see H today so he can sign the tax return and give me my portion of the refund from 06. I do pretty good until I have to talk to him; even if it's only on IM. When I talk to him, though, it all comes back. I still love this jerk. God knows why.
Feeling a bit ill about seeing him. I do NOT want to cry. And if he brings up filing, I ESPECIALLY don't want to cry.
UUUUUUGH!

[123snap]

Trixie,

I can so relate, you head wants you to get better and let go and move on, but your heart says wait, what if, and I love him... I am in the same place, and it really hurts sometimes.

I have been thinking of it as a step in this road, at first neither our heads or our hearts could believe it, not we are getting out head around it, our hearts will follow. I don't think it is bad to hold a small space

[NikB]

(((Trixi)))

Sorry I haven't checked in for awhile, been crazy busy but I have a quick minute.

Wow.. 90 days is not a long time for the waiting period. And I thought 6 months was short!

I think that I still have this little ember of denial/hope; that he will somehow realize that he is making a terrible mistake and turn around. (You know, all those stories where the WAS changes their mind at the 11th hour.)

It is SO ironic that you posted this today because I literally woke up and was thinking about my friends on the DB boards, and the first thing that popped into my mind was a fear that you were falling into this trap. "Maybe if I file, it'll cause him to change his mind".. you're hoping he'll call your bluff, maybe?

Here's the problem I see in your sitch though - he changes his mind all the time. You just mentioned the other day that he's done this how many times, now? So even if he DOES change his mind in the 11th hour, I have so many questions.

Can you trust him?
Can you risk (emotionally/mentally) going through this again, given his history?
What would it take for you to actually feel SECURE in an R with him again?

He runs hot and cold. From what you posted... I get the feeling that you would jump right back into an R with him if he went back to "hot" again. Or even "lukewarm" for that matter. You haven't gotten to where you require better treatment for yourself, the point where you realize that you DESERVE to be pursued, woo'd, cherished.

I anticipate that concrete moves towards D will hurt a great deal--even if intellectually I know it is for the best.

Probably.. I can't imagine it NOT hurting. If you finally get to where you know, in your heart, what you need and deserve for yourself I wonder if it might be easier, though. I do think you'll know when it's the right time.. maybe not 100%, but I have a feeling you'll be pretty sure. Your mind is there, and my bet is that your heart will begin to follow. In particular I think it's important that the decision doesn't have anything to do with your H - you need to feel it's what's right for you before you take any action, I think.

I've been checking out a dating site (not match as I don't want to accidentally see his profile) and many of the men say that the lady must not be married. And, I am married, technically.
And I don't blame them, either.

Now, I haven't posted a profile as I know I am not ready--but, when I am ready, I don't want my legal status to stand in my way of meeting quality people. KWIM?

Glad you realize you're not ready yet.

I REALLY doubt that someone's going to ask to see your D paperwork on a first date. So the legal status part of it honestly isn't that important I don't think. Yes, legally you're married until you're divorced - but there's that in between status of separated and you've been there for quite awhile now. I don't know for sure, obviously, and it'll depend on the person - but I imagine "separated over a year and in process of getting a D" would be OK for at least some of those guys. As long as you're honest about it (again, when you're ready).

OTOH, I still love my H. I would love to actually build a life with him. WHY can't I just see the reality????? I mean, I do see it-- but then I fall back into this fantasy world of when we were dating earlier this year. A fantasy world of him actually DOING something to be with ME. Silly, I know.
Letting go sure is hard.

(((Trixi)))) No - not silly at all.

I wanted to mention one thing about this. Yes, you had a good time earlier this year - but even then, yes you guys had fun together and enjoyed each other, but even then you didn't have a commitment from him. You still had someone who was cake-eating - you just enjoyed it a lot more because he was doing at least some of the pursuing.

Yes, letting go is VERY hard... might be a good time to re-read some of the coping.org stuff on detachment? It helps me to re-read that stuff sometimes.

Glad you've been having some positive interactions with yuor meetup friends! And even getting help with the mower repair? Nice! All good PMA boosting stuff.

Yikes, your XBF sounds scary. Glad you nipped that one in the bud.

I thought this was pretty interesting:

My xbf has ticked me off to the point I am now invisible when I go online. He got way too needy and clingy. gross. Now I understand how H felt. Sorta. The difference is that I don't owe xbf anything since we aren't married.

Actually.. I bet you understand more than you think. Your H, once you separated, probably also felt like he didn't owe you anything. Sadly I think people talk themselves into ending an M being not much different than breaking up with a GF/BF.

I still love this jerk. God knows why.

Hmmm... maybe you can change your focus. I don't think you're GOING to stop loving him or at least who you think/thought that he was.

Instead of worrying about why, or how to change it, maybe you can focus on loving YOURSELF more. Love yourself enough to not only want more for yourself, but also be willing to do what it takes to get it.

Feeling a bit ill about seeing him. I do NOT want to cry. And if he brings up filing, I ESPECIALLY don't want to cry.

(((Trixi)))

Hope it goes/went OK. In case you haven't gone yet... remember that "girl power" thing I was talking about? Do as much of that as you can before you go! Listen to empowering music the whole way over. Pump yourself up and know that you're the prize that he is missing out on. When you know that and can feel it (or act "as if," if you have to) - it should be easier not to cry.

I honestly would be surprised if he brings up filing unless it's to ask you to do it. He obviously wasn't worried about it in terms of dating or sleeping with other people, so I doubt he's worried about it now. Could be wrong but that's just my guess. I'm trying to even think of a sitch I've seen where the WAS filed.. there aren't that many. Usually it seems like once they drop the bomb they figure they're free to go on as if they're D'd already.

Stay strong, girl! You're worth it.

[Trixi]

Well, stepson and H just came over (and left). SS arrived here in town yesterday. It was REALLY great to see him. H and I signed what we needed to for the taxes. The funny thing was that H was sort of leaning into me when we were signing stuff and I sorta did a smile and SS started laughing. H was like "what? what?" and SS and I were just chuckling. SS is pretty intuitive/observant and good at reading people and the subtext.

Anyway, gave SS the grand tour of the house; he said several times that I looked "great".

I had taken down all evidence of H; I took down the pics from CR, turned off my digital frame, turned off the rotating wallpaper on my computer, took down a magnet I had made from a pic of the two of us. At first I don't think he noticed, but on the way to my office I sensed him pausing and sort of making a noise. I remember how my heart was stabbed when I was at the other house and and all the pics of us together were face down.
OTOH, maybe he didn't notice or care. Whatever. I needed them down for my sake.

H did his usual staring at me. When it was time for them to go, he gave me a couple hugs and a little kiss on the lips. And then they drove off and I dissolved into tears. OMG I miss him.

But I didn't cry in front of him. He asked how I've been and I said "really good. You?" I was upbeat, funny, light.

Yes, you had a good time earlier this year - but even then, yes you guys had fun together and enjoyed each other, but even then you didn't have a commitment from him. You still had someone who was cake-eating - you just enjoyed it a lot more because he was doing at least some of the pursuing. <snip> So even if he DOES change his mind in the 11th hour, I have so many questions.

Can you trust him?
Can you risk (emotionally/mentally) going through this again, given his history?
What would it take for you to actually feel SECURE in an R with him again?

Yeah- and that is why I know intellectually I need to move forward. SIGH

but I imagine "separated over a year and in process of getting a D" would be OK for at least some of those guys. As long as you're honest about it (again, when you're ready).

Good point.

I keep feeling like there is some "switch" that will go off inside me. Kinda like the toilet tank filling. LOL You hear the water running and then all of a sudden, it's full enough and that's the end of it.