Another one bites the dust (2)

[Sara]

The way I see it, he is doing what he thinks is right for him (and only him). So you need to do what is best for you. If absence makes the heart grow fonder, then he will come around. If he is an out of sight, out of mind person, then he will move on. But you can't leave your emotions hanging out for him to step on. You have to take care of yourself.

[Ready2Change]

Hi Sweetie,

You have identified the two trains of thought. You are going to have to make the call. Dark vs Friend.

Be very patient and just keep working on YOU. Read as much as you can right now.

Have you read Glass:"NOT JUST FRIENDS"?

What about Hendrix:"Keeping the love you find"


*HUGS*

[No Longer BH]

Sara, my STBXH is the out of sight kind of guy. His ego is so fragile, that is why he is w OW. SHe built him up when I was too sick to do that. Part of me feels like, hey jerk, I was not building you up because I F'ing had CANCER! Why do I want that back....most of the time I dont, but there are moments I think "what if???" It is fear talking, I know, but that does not make the emotion any less.

Ready, I did ready Not just friends when this all started. Maybe I should go back to it. I started Hendrix's book but could not deal with it. I felt like I need to be fixing me, not looking how to have a good relationship when I dont even have a R. So had to put it down.

Sometimes I feel like NC is the best place for me to be. It has given me more peace from this rollercoaster ride. It has changed my focus (mostly). But I feel that by going NC it will allow him to move on more easily. Maybe that is my insecurity talking. When I was acting like his friend he was reaching out to me. He was sending joke emails and buying little gifts for me. But, he was then going over and having sex with OW. It crushed me. Maybe the best solution is to see that I need NC to find the remaining strength I need so that I can give only what I can give w/o getting sucked back in. I am just not able to be his friend while there is an OW right now. I want her gone so that I feel I have a chance. Guess I need to think on this some more. Thanks for reaching out ot me.

[Reincarnated]

I struggled with the exact same thing....

But I know that I couldn't be friends. It just hurt too much.

For me, I had go to NC to save my sanity.

(Oh, and the thing about your friend - how bizarre! You seem to have processed that in a very thoughtful way; better than I would have. What a thing to have thrown at you in the midst of everything else you are dealing with!!)

[Ready2Change]

I took the Hendrix book as a FIX ME book. P203 shows where you need to 180. I am very rational so I need to find my emotions.....

*HUGS*

[Ready2Change]

As far as the friends thing, I have many friendships with women now. I am not afraid of them anymore. I am not so afraid of W. If W decides to be friendly in the future, I will have lots of practice under my belt....

[No Longer BH]

Wish I just knew what to do......but dont we all. I will become clear soon enough, I have to believe that.Guess this is were we learn to have faith and patience, never was good with either. The universe really wants me to learn these lessons, guess I need to listen.

[Ready2Change]

These are what I have learned:

Forgiveness,Patience,Listening,Validation,Empathy

[No Longer BH]

Ok, Mr REady (or anyone else), here is a question (actually, many so be prepared). So we are suppose to do a 180. I have done many veriasions. Here is a list:

1. I went from being needy to being independant.

2. I went from being depressed to happy.

3. I went from being angery at him to trying to be his friend but then told him he was not my friend (after finding out he was still having sex with OW after lying to me about it).

4. I dropped R talk

5. I GAL and worked on finding peace in my life

6. I lost sooooo much weigth and for the first time felt confident in myself

7. I've done everything from send joking emails, teasing IM messages thanking him for things he does to going dark.

8. I tell him about my life, I shut him out of my life

9. I invite him for wine, I tell him he can not be in my house when I am in it


ONe extreme to another. This is what I have seen:

1. He has told me he can see the changes I have made for myself and is happy for me. He would get angry at me when I was needy.

2. He has told me he can see I am happy and is happy for me.

3. When I was acting like his friend he was joking with me and leaving me little gifts and sending me email. HE waould compliment me and thank me after I thanked him. His tone was much more open and appreciative. After I told him to leave me alone, he got angry at me and now really does not want to be around me.

4. WHen R talk has come up he makes sure that I know that R is impossible, he loves me but is not in love with me and will never feel that way again. Wants me to always be in my life and feels connected to me, but nothing else (whatever that means). R talks only serve to hurt me.

5. He seems happy that I have GAL, and at one point when he thought there might be a male friend involved said he was glad that I was moving on. Had a huge smile on his face. Never seemed bother by all of my comings and goings. Almosted seemed if he did not care one way or another. As far as me finding peace, he acts like it is a compitition. He wants to prove that he is more enlightend than me. He keeps suggesting books for me to read that can help me further my journey with meditation, mindfullness and serinity, has sent me email links on articles he has found, and the tone of his emails are all very "peaceful and hoping for my continued happiness." Yet, this is not his demenour when he is around me. It all feels so fake and like a one ups manship. Sometimes it really pisses me off because I read the thngs I read to help me and now he is trying to prove he is better at it than me. Then walk the freakin walk instead of just talking the freakin talk!

6. He has made so many compliments to me on my physical appearance. I know he thinks I look good. He stopped saying anything to me when I asked for NC.

7. He seemed to enjoy my messages and would respond back with the same. The thing is I used these as signs of hope that maybe he would see how wonderful I am and want to come back. While I was emailing him, he was also initiating contact with me on a regular basis, yet wanted me to know that it was just as friends...please dont read anything into any of it.

8. When I was telling him about my life he was opening up some and telling me little tid bits about his. Not very often, but it would happen. Plus he was alsways asking about how I was doing. Now that I have NC, it is very formal..."I hope you had a good evening. I'm going to go now." The way it should be for NC, but still I wonder if it is the right thing.....

9. When we were being friends, it seemed he would stay just a litte while longer to hang out and talk. He would have a glass of wine with me and he was relaxed. With my NC boundaries in place, at first he was hanging out some but now he bolts. I know people are prob going to say "Isnt that what you want?" Um, hello, no. I WANT my M back. I WANT the H I used to have back. But that is not what is. I did NC because he is still with OW, still having sex with her, still doing things with her that he should be doing with his wife while he is still married. It hurts to know that he is doing these things. He refuses to say she is a R. Has denied that from the begining. Why? I dont get that! I thought that by going NC it would help me just let go because I lost hope. I dont want to lose hope, but he kept telling me it was over. I dont want to be that poor soul whose heart is still bleeding while their ex is walking down the aile with the new wife. It would crush me. So I guess I just went into self protect mode to just try and get past it.

Most of the time I am strong and sure of my path. I feel like why try and convience him I am the better catch? I know I am. If he cant see it then it is HIS loss and now I know so should move on to someone who will cherish me like I will cherish them. But what if R#2 has a breakdown and I go through this crap all over again? These thoughts plague me. I want to fix what we had because what we had was so good before it broke. I just dont know which way has the better success rate.

TO be honest, I have done ALOT of reading. And I mean ALOT. The whole cake eating vs best friend approach is discussed on many other sites as well. The thing that I keep seeing is that the majority of the time the ones who end up coming back together are the ones who WERE friends with the WAS. Now, MANY have tried this only to dragged along for years without R. This is my fear. I could not endure that kind of pain. I have yet to see hardly any success with the NC policy. That tend to work on the WAH who are more manly and dont want anyone else to have what was once theirs. Of course I could be SO wrong here, it is just what I have found. This is not my WAH. He is more the intellectual type instead of the manly type. Has never, and I do mean never, been jelous of anyone with me. So, here I sit, thinking WAY too much, wondering if I am the one putting the finaly nail in my M coffin by demanding NC. He has such a low self esteem. He has no self worth. SHould I be trying to build him back up like OW did or should I just say forget it, Im worth more than how he has treated me???????


Again, these are just fears coming out at this moment. I will stay with NC for at least 1 month for two reasons. Number one, Michelle says to wait a few weeks to see how a new behavior works on WAS before keeping it or changing it. Number two, and most important, because I know I need that time to heal from the damage he has caused with his continued lying and cheating. At the end of 1 month, I will see what is working for ME. Still, I would like others opinion. Thanks

[Ready2Change]

...Ok, Mr Ready

Wow! what a question! From your statements, It looks like being his friend was working.

...to do a 180. I have done many variations. Here is a list:
1. I went from being needy to being independent.
2. I went from being depressed to happy.
3. I went from being angry at him to trying to be his friend
4. I dropped R talk
5. I GAL and worked on finding peace in my life
6. I lost sooooo much weight
6.1 felt confident in myself
7. send joking emails
7.1 teasing IM messages
7.2 thanking him for things he does


7. He seemed to enjoy my messages and would respond back with the same.

While I was emailing him, he was also initiating contact with me on a regular basis, yet wanted me to know that it was just as friends...please dont read anything into any of it.

These are all very attractive. I would keep them up.

8. I tell him about my life
9. I invite him for wine

You need to test and monitor results on things like this...Do more of what works, stop doing what doesn't work

...
I tell him he can not be in my house when I am in it
I shut him out of my life
going dark.
told him he was not my friend (after finding out he was still having sex with OW after lying to me about it).

It looks like you are setting boundaries based on him continuing R with OW. Only you can define where your boundaries are.

Let me ask a questions:

1) Can you be a friend to a man (example your brother) if he was sleeping with another woman. (I would guess the answer is YES). OK, can you get to a state of mind that H is more of a brother than your H (IE not needy at all). THIS is harder than H3LL, but that is where I am focused on getting to with W. I am increasing my female friend base. I will get to a point where I am treating W like the rest of the women. I have a handful of good friendship relationships with women.

...He has told me he can see the changes I have made for myself and is happy for me

Great!

...He would get angry at me when I was needy.

OK, keep focused on NOT BEING NEEDY. Put some needs on hold, get others met by other people. IE sex is on hold. Get hugs from friends. If you need to be touched, get a massage,haircut,nails done,etc

...He has told me he can see I am happy and is happy for me.
When I was acting like his friend he was joking with me and leaving me little gifts and sending me email. He would compliment me and thank me after I thanked him. His tone was much more open and appreciative.

Good! Keep the positive changes going....

...After I told him to leave me alone, he got angry at me and now really does not want to be around me.

Why tell him to leave you alone?? You say you want him back. Maybe your boundary is too far out??? Just asking.

...When R talk has come up he makes sure that I know that R is impossible, he loves me but is not in love with me and will never feel that way again. Wants me to always be in my life and feels connected to me, but nothing else (whatever that means). R talks only serve to hurt me.

Avoid R talk to protect yourself, but validate and empathize his feelings. THIS IS ALSO HARD, but will bring him closer. He will feel you understand HIS POV and that is attractive!

...He keeps suggesting books for me to read that can help me further my journey

Be appreciative. Keep reading and working on YOU.

...really pisses me off because I read the thngs I read to help me and now he is trying to prove he is better at it than me. Then walk the freakin walk instead of just talking the freakin talk!

DONT worry about HIM.....

...He has made so many compliments to me on my physical appearance. I know he thinks I look good.

Great! Focus on looking your best at all times. This will make you feel good, and build up you self esteme! If he wants to be with a good looking woman, he will be crazy for leaving you....

...He stopped saying anything to me when I asked for NC.

Sounds like the NC is not helping with your R goal. It may help you detach. Think about why you have this boundary and if it is set at the correct place.

...The thing is I used these as signs of hope that maybe he would see how wonderful I am and want to come back.

NO PRESSURE!!!! Just change to the woman you want to be....No intentions no expectations

.... When I was telling him about my life he was opening up some and telling me little tid bits about his. Not very often, but it would happen.

I would let his imagination run wild. GAL have fun and act as if around him...

...Plus he was always asking about how I was doing.

Great / terrific /things have never been better (in your body language, words and actions)

...Now that I have NC, it is very formal..."I hope you had a good evening. I'm going to go now." The way it should be for NC, but still I wonder if it is the right thing.....

Formal doesn't sound like it is working...

...When we were being friends, it seemed he would stay just a litte while longer to hang out and talk. He would have a glass of wine with me and he was relaxed.

sounds like this was working

... With my NC boundaries in place, at first he was hanging out some but now he bolts.

sounds like NC is not improving R

...I know people are prob going to say "Isnt that what you want?" Um, hello, no.

I WANT my M back.

...I WANT the H I used to have back.

He might never come back. You now see the REAL him.

...I did NC because he is still with OW, still having sex with her, still doing things with her that he should be doing with his wife while he is still married. It hurts to know that he is doing these things...

I can't imagine how this must hurt. You have placed your boundary to protect yourself. You can move this boundary as you become more detached and working toward friendship.

... He refuses to say she is a R. Has denied that from the beginning. Why? I don't get that!

He feels guilty

...thought that by going NC it would help me just let go because I lost hope. I dont want to lose hope,

I have faith that W will come back, but I am moving forward without expectations (One day at a time)

I don't want to be that poor soul whose heart is still bleeding while their ex is walking down the aile with the new wife.

This is why detachment is so important

...Most of the time I am strong and sure of my path.

Good. This helps YOU.

...I feel like why try and convience him I am the better catch? I know I am. If he cant see it then it is HIS loss and now I know so should move on to someone who will cherish me like I will cherish them.

No convincing him, you need to make real changes and draw him back. You will also draw other men's attention with the changes....practice on them but keep your boundaries...

...I have done ALOT of reading. And I mean ALOT...

keep it up! learn as much as you can right now...

...The thing that I keep seeing is that the majority of the time the ones who end up coming back together are the ones who WERE friends with the WAS

I would have to agree. be freindly but not needy. Set boundaries and keep them. Adjust when appropriate....

...I will stay with NC for at least 1 month for two reasons. Number one, Michelle says to wait a few weeks to see how a new behavior works on WAS before keeping it or changing it. Number two, and most important, because I know I need that time to heal from the damage he has caused with his continued lying and cheating. At the end of 1 month, I will see what is working for ME. Still

Sounds like you know what you plan on doing. You do not want to be around someone who lies.


Sorry it took so long to respond, but I am a DAM......

*HUGS*