365 days of initiation...

[Texas365]

It has been forever since I have posted here. So, long that I could not even remember my old password and the email I used is dead now - so, I have to create a new login. My old name was "Geekspeak" though I am not sure how many old timers are still around here - Hairdog?

I decided to come back here because my relationship has taken a weird turn and I wanted to hear some feedback from some other people who share a lot of the same concerns as myself.

This post could go on for about 5 pages, but I will try to be brief and give you a quick history and then tell you about my current situation.

= HISTORY =
I am a HD male married 20+ years to a LD female. We have two teenagers. Our sex life comes and goes but never goes lower than once a month and never more than 3-4 times a month. I would prefer 2x a week.

= CURRENT SITUATION =
I have a full time 40hr week job. I also own a business on the side. I have been doing this business on the side for 10 years (pretty much a hobby). Now the business has taken off like wild fire. I do not want to leave my full time job because I enjoy it and the benefits are great. I have hired assistants to help with my business. This of course takes lots of time and causes a lot of stress for me trying to make my clients happy.

I still have time to spend with my family and wife. The problem is that I have pretty much given up on initiating sex. Not that I don't WANT sex. It's just that my wife is usually not positive about initiation. It pretty much goes one of two ways... if she wants it and I initiate we are okay. If she does not want it we usually end up grumpy or fighting because of something I "did wrong" - asked at the wrong time, asked too quick, did this wrong, did that too late, etc. So, I end up looking at a desk of projects and asking myself. Gee, I would like to have sex tonight... but, can I afford to give up 2-3 hours if I get a "No" answer and then have to deal with hurt feelings for days???

So, I was just about to confront my wife on the issue - and she beat me to it.

We're sitting on the couch and she just pops off and says "I want you to ask me for sex every night for the next year! and if I don't like how you ask... you're sleeping on the couch..."

So... you can imagine the head jerk reaction from me... WHAT?! but of course... she does not want to talk about it... you know... it's not a discussion... just go with it... do it...

So, I'm having pretty mixed emotions about this...

Great! I get to initiate sex every night... I could really use the practice... I have never been good at this...

CRAP! I'm going to get rejected 300 times this year...

Great! I'm probably going to get sex more times this year...

CRAP! Who is she to set all these rules and tell me the man of the house that I'll be sleeping on the couch???

So, it's been about 6 nights now...

The first night I got lucky and we had sex...

The next night went well, she said she was tired... I was too... everybody is happy.

Then, the third night I "didn't do it right" and I felt like just going to the couch to get away from her... instead she insisted (not in a nice way) that I try again and again until she was happy with my attempt (yet, the answer was still no to sex)

I was out of town for two days so we got a break from her game.

Then, I returned and we had a crappy fight about nothing important. So, there I am thinking "crap, we don't even like each other right now and I have to initiate sex!?!?!" So, I did my best attempt and it was decent and she accepted it as a valid attempt...said no thanks and we went to bed.

So, is this pretty weird or what?

oh, she also got onto me one of those nights because "I was doing the same thing I had done the first night when I initiated" - so, now what? I have to come up with something UNIQUE 365 days?

[diane74]

Texas,

Not only is it weird, it is very much unfair in my eyes. What exactly is the point of this, " game ? " What happens at the end of the year, and why was a year the magic number? And why is it that if you do it " wrong " per say do you have to sleep on the couch ?? All this did for me was confuse me.

In my opinion, this won't work because eventually you will become very frustrated and its just an impossible demand. With no communication how on earth can you figure out what is right or wrong in " HER " eyes, and how can it progress? Unless she expects you to become a mind reader I think it will crash and burn. One or both of you will become so frustrated that it more then likely will end badly and maybe even with her giving up completely and saying, : " well, you couldn't do it , so forget it "

What would happen if you said the same to her ? Sorry, I just think its very unfair and I don't know how you can do this especially if she won't tell you what she wants or likes ect...... that the only way you will find out is a night on the couch.

I think, and this is me, but for a sexual relationship to get better between the 2 of you, there has to be some sort of communication. I don't see that for you. It sounds more like an ultimatum with no clear anything.........

What happens if you don't? Couch it is?? Or the "game" ends? Looks like you may have to talk, unless you want to play the game, but as I said before, I really see there being no great ending to it. 365 days is a long time, and really I think its unfair also that you'd have to go thru so many rejections in the process. What does that help ?

My thoughts for now... sorry your going thru this

[Strong&Alive]

Texas,

I would respectfully disagree with Diane.

I suspect that your wife has read or read about 365 Nights: A Memoir of Initimacy by Charla Muller, and is using that as the basis of a plan to break out of your current rut.

Yes, she is requiring that you initiate. Yes, she is resrving the right to turn you down (she always had this though). But that doesn't mean this isn't a genuine plan, nor that it won't work.

However, I see this as extremely positive. She is dissatisfied with the status quo and is on her own initiative giving both of you an opportunity:

(1) You to get more confident at initiation (and dare I say seduction) and take rejection less personally (a big problem for many men), knowing that you can start over the very next night.

(2) Her to own and contemplate and exercise her own sexuality as a woman - by ensuring that the thought of sex gets turned over every night. It may well remove the "When is he goimng to ask?" pressure.

(3) For both of you to have more sex than you have been having for a long time. It seems like her plan requires both of you to own and deal with your issues, and hopefully start meeting in the middle more often.

I am conscious that you have only given us limited information, but unless you are going to tell us that your wife is prone to manipulation, I would if I were you well anmd truly enter into the spirit.

Drop any resentments about the past, take your masculinity in one hand and a rose in the other, and step up to the plate.

I also suggest that you read some of the posts by Bagheera and DanceQueen, as these will give you some ideas about what your wife may have been feeling and her condition that you initiate in the right way (I suspect she is expecting confidence, seduction and passion).

S&A

[Bagheera]

Howdy Tex,

S&A beat me to it.

I too, strongly suspect that your wife may have gotten her idea from a relatively recent paperback called 365 Nights: A Memoir of Intimacy, in which a middle-aged couple, who's sex life had been dwindling, vowed to make love every night for 365 days in a row -- and subsequently published a book about it. It was a (somewhat gimmicky) way of revitalizing their sex life together, and got them some interviews on TV and cable news networks (which is where I saw them). I think that your wife *may* have put her own twist on their idea.

I see both a good and a bad side to your wife's idea.

POSITIVE POINTS:

1) She's looking for a way to reinvigorate your sexual relationship. She recognizes that there is something missing, and is making a stab at working to fix it.

2) She's realized that one of the problems has been in how you approach her for sex.

This is a BIG DEAL for women, and one that men often don't get -- I sure as heck didn't for a very long time. For a man, the decision to have sex (or not) is a easy one: with our high testosterone levels, it doesn't take much for us to say "Hell Yeah!" and get on board the idea, even if we hadn't even considered it as a possibility that evening. For a woman, the decision is a much more MENTAL than hormonal: they have to be romanced, coaxed, and seduced into the idea of having sex. And it's NOT a game -- it's how they are wired.

When an HD man gets into an SSM situation, his natural reaction is to become more and more timid in his approach to initiating sex with his wife, and by so doing, he sabotages his changes of success. I've had to learn this lesson the hard way, and completely change my approach to my wife. I've put one set of 'lessons learned' into a post regarding the four basic models for initiating sex, or if you'd rather, you can look over my rather bumpy journey toward recovering my sex-starved marriage.

The message behind her idea, that you need to hear loud and clear is: if you want her to respond to you and have more sex with you, YOU need to "Man Up," take the risk, romance her, and seduce her in a different manner than in the past --> more often, and more confidently. She's giving you that chance.

3) But is isn't all up to you. In initiating this idea, she's owning up to her contribution to the problem, and is actively trying to 'think' sexually each and every night. Yes, she's asked you to take the lead and do the seducing, but she's also made a commitment to consider your advances and respond if she can --> and give you open feedback if she can't. She's made a commitment to 'work the issue,' and you have to give her credit.

NEGATIVE POINT:

The main negative that I see here is that not only does she want you to take the Active role while she takes the Passive role (which I see as OK, for now), she also insists on being the one in CONTROL. She plays the gate-keeper, the one who gets to say 'yay' or 'nay' -- and determines whether you get to sleep with her or on the couch. By maintaining such complete control, she is unknowingly undermining your chances of success. Why? Because, like it or not, women are naturally turned on by a man who is strong, dominant, and in control (as long as that man is loving, giving, and cherishing of her at the same time). That is, if you are put in the place of approaching her from a position of weakness, like a puppy begging for his nightly Milk-bone, you will fail --> this position is neither masculine nor sexually attractive to a woman.

So here is what I would do: if she expects you to take charge, and take the lead in initiating sex nearly every night, then SHE needs to agree to make herself sexually available to you when you do initiate, even if her initial knee-jerk reaction is to resist. If she expects you to Just Do It! and initiate when you might be feeling uncomfortable and unsure about it, then she needs to do her part and Just Do It!, even when your approach or her initial reaction is less than stellar: you BOTH need to be forgiving of each other, and allow yourselves the time to adjust to a new mode of approaching your sex life.

Take care,

Bagheera

[Bagheera]

P.S. The last link above (from the Taken in Hand website) is one that --> MY WIFE SENT TO ME <-- last spring, when she was initially trying to get the point across to me that my overly "Nice Guy" approach to our relationship, both in and out of hte bedrrom, was a turn-off to her.

LIke Newton, that apple falling on my head woke me up to a whole new way of looking at things....

-- B.

[diane74]

Glad to see you 2 showed up.... lol I was feeling bad that I kinda took out the negative, and commented there. Then I came back, and the replies after mine are much better I was basically trying to comment on the negative only. Sorry about that.

As Bagheera stated, there is both positive and negative..

So, Texas, there you go,great advice for you!

[DanceQueen]

Wow...the only thing I don't get is why you have to sleep on the couch if she doesn't like the way you initiate? I mean, if it was a funny or playful thing like - - (sound of buzzer) WRONG! You initiated wrong and now you get door number three - the couch! - - but it was just a game and not actually have to sleep on the couch...then maybe it would make more sense.

But I do agree with the guys that she is actually WANTING more sex and is having a hard time with the way you are initiating.

I also have to wonder, why didn't you ask her DIRECTLY why she came up with this idea, where she heard about it, what HER goals are in doing it...etc. In other words, why are men so avoidant to having actual direct conversations in a case like this? (I know "why", but I am just asking to try to get you to think). I mean, she is likely full on prepared to tell you exactly why...as most women are usually holding back words at all times that they'd like to tell you....so why not just ask her?

DQ

[Burgbud]

1. If you ever sleep on the couch because she made you after you didn't initiate right, then you deserve to sleep on the couch.

2. Next time tell her you'll initiate if she can get you hard. If she doesn't, go to sleep. If she does, look at her like a ravenous wolf looks at a newborn fawn and tell her, "Now I'm going to f*ck you with this." Then do it.

3. Don't initiate when she tells you to or how she tells you to. Initiate when you want to and how you want to. If "how you want to" looks like this: "Honey, will you please have sex with me tonight?", then you have some self-work to do. Think about how you *really* want to initiate and do that.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

We're sitting on the couch and she just pops off and says "I want you to ask me for sex every night for the next year! and if I don't like how you ask... you're sleeping on the couch..."

SURELY this is a troll, or a joke???

365, are you for real?? Even if there is some book written on this, your wife's punitive and belittling application of it is TOTALLY disrespectful, in my opinion. I would urge you to reconsider your approach.

Puppy

[Strong&Alive]

PDT,

Apparently Texas is not a troll or a joke - this guy was on the board back in "the old days"!

I have to say I didn't read the "sleeping on the couch" thing as being anything more than humorous/testing. I suppose it depends on how it was said.

And its only punitive and belittling if he lets himself be punished and belittled. I for one don't think Texas should ever sleep on the couch if rejected, and unless his wife is a disrespectful beeatch (in which case why would he want to have sex with her at all?), I don't think she would seriously expect him to either.

Assuming good faith on his wife's part, I think she wants a sex-life again, and wants him to initiate in a confident sexy way.

Bagheera - great post (as always). I agree that her plan is a start, but Texas has to move things along as well. He's not a good little boy, and sex isn't a sweetie cupboard.

Texas - any more news?

S&A