Are we piecing yet?

[Molly44]

Kiwi

Mine has been a 4 year battle, but only this year feeling like I want my M back. I changed when H changed.

You are only young and you have a young child to fight for. Keep Dbing. I know what you mean when you get confident and then you let the Dbing slip. I have done that a few times myself. Now I have a list that i keep in my purse.

1. When he talks about R - listen and agree and be sorry. Here him out .He is reaching out.

2. No needy stuff. No matter how hard

3. Pretend to be GAL

4. Be up beat and agreeable but not doormat.

5. NO talking without thinking ( huge failing of mine )

6. No asking questions on where he has been.

I have aquestion for you . How did you find it within yorself to forgive her? My H will not. He feels cheated ? Is there anything I can do or say to him that would make him feel better?

[kiwi000]

Hmm, the forgiveness thing has been a huuuge issue for me. Being a Catholic helped a lot as it is ingrained in me whether I like it or not. Having said that, I was angry and felt hugely betrayed and I still feel hurt. So faith didn't get me across the line; what did help me forgive was the following.....

The best advice I got was from my father who said that I could choose to carry the anger and resentment around like a hot coal but that would not change anything at all or I could forgive my wife and see what came of it. Forgiving WAW said more about me than it did about her. My father was clever, he played to my pride in showing me that forgiveness made me stronger and better but it did not make WAW "right".

Pride is the big issue in all of this. I felt that WAW's EA/PA humilated me. I could not understand how 10 years could be replaced so quickly. Doing anything that appeared to say WAW's A was OK was totally foreign to me. Forgiveness was therefore also totally foreign.

But at the end of the day, none of that changed what happened. But getting over the humiliation and the fear of being humiliated again is a huuuge barrier to reconcilation of any kind.

But, all of that said, the EA wouldn't have happened of there hadn't been cracks in the M. So I took a long hard look at myself, with the help of both the DB and DR books, and saw that I had stopped communicating, was stressed, angry and generally unpleasant to be around. So, despite my being faithful to my vows and WAW not being faithful, I was a big part of the problem. I wish that realisation hadn't come from WAW's A because that has caused me a huge amount of pain.

What got me to forgive in the end was that I knew I could never make our M work if I did not. I still don't know if our M can work but I need to know for myself and for S3 that I tried everything I could.

Also, knowing that WAW is racked with guilt made me see that not forgiving her was also bad for our S3 who could sense the tension and intense emotions.

But to answer your question, the only thing you can say is that you are sorry, that you regret the pain this has caused and that you really want to see what you can do together, even propose some joint counselling.

[Molly44]

H dragged me to C when it first happened and it was because of these sessions that I saw the A for what it was. The C also gave H the strength to carry on and make changes in himself.

That was when our roles reversed. He wanted out and i wanted in.

i wish i had chosen fidelity.

I am sure your wife does to. We know there is no going back, it is hard to look at the pain we have caused daily to everyone. ESPECIALLY the kids.

I know when A was first discovered i wanted tio hide. Did not want marriage or anything. It was the cowards way out. It took a lot of encouragement and strength from to turn back to the marriage. You need to help your wife find that courage. She is only finding temporary relief in what she is doing now. Cant find from your past. It always catches up.

Better to make a good second go at the first M.

Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

[kiwi000]

I have a question for you..... what made/makes you want to return to the M.... something must have been wrong in the first place for a A to happen? How do I help WAW to find courage to consider the DB alternative??

[Molly44]

Ok kiwi here is how I felt

1. I realised that it was just that, problems with the M that made feel the need to step outside of the M with another M. Those problems would occur with me in any M and also H will also make same mistakes. So why not give this M a dam good shot and see if we cant get back to where we were before the M started going down hill.

2. The family is best in tact. I believe there would be 1000 more problems with H and I not being married than there would be if married. We would always be in contact due to children. We would share grandchildren without the pleasure of sharing in the joys of our work.

3. No matter who you are in a relatioship with I believe in 5 years you all end in the same place. Those 2nd marriages that work, do so because effort is put in so the the mistakes of the first are not repeated. So make the effort with the first M.

4. I focused on what attracted me to H in the first place.

Hope it helps. I hope you can convince W and yourself that you could create a stronger , healthier M than anyone who has not put there lives through this Hell.

[kiwi000]

Update;

My father is dying. He has terminal cancer. This is a really tough time for me as a I have a very close relationship with him. WAW offered to lend an ear on the night that Dad was diagnosed (6 weeks ago now) but since then has not asked about his health once.

I did ask if she wanted to go see him, she said yes and she'd organise it. Dad has not heard from her.

WAW used to be close to my Mum and Dad. They loved her and thought she was great before we separated. They have bee one of my supporters through DBing and I think they secrettly respect me for giving it a go.

But what hope does our M have when WAW just ignores the fact that Dad is dying (he's now going into organ failure so things are happening quite quickly). No words of encouragement for me, no support (although perhaps I was not that open about how I was feeling after he was diagnosed.... I still feel very wary of being vunerable to WAW).

I feel like I am also dealing with S3 about this issue on my own. S3 loves his Grandad.

So I'm not as good as I was a few weeks.

Has anyone encountered a WAS who doesn't engage when a parent is dying? Is this a signal that in truth she really has gone and I should move on too?? If so, why go on a 'family holiday' 3 weeks ago.

[Lanzo]

Hi Kiwi,

So sorry to hear about your Dad,it's seems so many of us here have to cope with the potential loss of a loved one as well as our M.

I'm not sure what to say about the attitude of your W, but I think that your best efforts should now be focussed on helpimg you Dad though these final days, and supporting the rest of your family.

My best wishes to you

Lanzo

[Kalni]

Hi Kiwi,

I am sorry to hear you are dealing with what I am dealing also. My dad has cancer and had his third surgery this last Wednesday and thanK God, he made it. He is in recovery and things dont look good but I am still hoping.

My stbxH loved my dad. He has been very polite and in good terms with both my parents all the years we've been together. My parents have been helping us alot with our kids.
He has also lost him mom 4 years ago and knows how it feels to lose a parent. Ever since we found out he SAID he wanted to be there for me and came to both previous surgeries. He didnt to this last one nor helped with the kids (babysitting while I needed to be at the hospital).
I got really mad and talked to him yesterday.I told him I didnt want anything else from him but to be there for his kids while I am spending time with my dad. He showed remorse and I could tell he felt bad. He even said he remembers how I supported him and his family through his mom's illness (cancer also).
Bottom line, and I dont know your sitch, I am only talking from my point of view, I am alone. I cant count on him for things serious as this. I learned a lesson this week. My life, my problems. It's ok.
I have no advice to offer, just wanted to let you know I am going through the same. Take care and I hope you get to spend with time your dad and tell him how much he means to you. That is what I am doing. Somehow, this makes it easier to keep moving on with my stbxH.
K

[Molly44]

Hi - Sorry to hear about your dad.

My H father also died and quickly a few months back. H had just moved back in when we had the diagnosis. I supported H and his family and my family 100 %.

Hs dad died. H moved back out of our house 2 weeks later. Friends were concerned that his grief for Dad was over shadowing his feelings for me. He says not.

End of the day my h said that what I did to him with A was 10 times greater than the grief of losing his father. Sad.

If your W is not supporting , I would say that is a sign that her head is in a fog.

If you were confident in your feelings about being seperated you would get involved. You would keep your distance only if you were risking another relationship or your head just is not screwed on properly.

It is her childrens grandfather. She should be very concerned. Selfish is all i can say

[kiwi000]

Thanks everyone for your kind support.

Having a parent die or dying ceratinly makes you question what's important. I'm giving everything I have to S3 and my parents right now and perhaps don't have room for WAW. I guess it's also possible that WAW does have an OM.

Max030, the hurt from a parent dying and the hurt of an A are very different. Dad dying is a fact that neither he nor I can change. I will grieve for him for a very long time and I am really sad about it. I have told him everything I wanted to tell him and in that sense I have no (and hope I have no) regrets.

The A was hurtful in different way. I grieved for the lost possibilities and potential of our M; I hurt for me and for our S and I couldn't understand what I had done to deserve what happened. I begged and pleaded (before I found the DB book) and I made huge changes to myself to demonstrate my commitment. None of that helped (at least not for a while) probably because WAW was blinded by the OM. Dad passing will not be his choice.

Unlike my Dad, WAW is still here and there were choices involved. It's the choice made that makes the pain so much greater. Dying is not usually a choice but the A is and it's that issue of trust that makes the A so much harder to bear.

I know that's hard to hear. I'm sorry your H feels that way although he is probably hurt and upset about his father and is 'acting out' against the person closest to him who hurt him.

I must admit that I am of two minds as to whether WAW and I can ever rescue our M but I want to give it a go so that I know.

Maybe acknoweldge with your H that you know he's hurting and scared; tell him you are scared too and that you'll work hard to earn back his trust and give him what he needs from you to start trusting again. I would really appreciate that from WAW about now.

BTW, did your H's parents stay together? It's possible if they D that he is reliving all that hurt?