God give me the patience and the strength...7

[WCW]

I am not trying to be antagonistic, but I am trying to understand.

MG - Why is Bworls advice good for toh and not you?

toh's H is at his own place not living with an ow and may not even have ow anymore. toh and her H have sex.
Your H clearly lives with ow, you and he have sex.

MLC/WAS all have to go thru this on their own time, if we choose we try and support them as best we can until we reach a point that we cannot do it any longer.

[Bworl]

Many times we can think of reasons why we cannot directly tell our spouse that they are not currently welcome in the home. Fact is that we may well have no legal footing for trying to keep them out.

That doesn't mean you cannot refrain from inviting them in.

I think when I need to draw back emotionally, I simply make an effort to NOT do anything that would invite the person in. I may not be able to stop them from coming in on their own accord, but by not inviting, by not offering dinner, by not offering a rest on the couch, I would at least feel that I was sending the message that I do NOT want them there right now.

And I think it's important that we explain why, particularly if we have had a different policy before they became involved with another.

It's disrespectful. And I do not believe that disrespectful behavior should be rewarded or encouraged in any way.

Does that make sense?


Bill

[theotherhalf]

Wow! Great responses and advice...from ALL of you!
Thank You Thank You!!!

I don't remember you ever sharing him saying that he was sure he wanted a divorce. Is this a case of you putting words in his mouth?

Bill,
many many many times my H has said, demanded, screamed that he wants a D. That he was going to the L tomorrow, or next week. That it's time to get this taken care of. Sunday he said "I'll go file, I'll go this week, but I don't know who to go to, you seem to know all the L's" and then he went on about me seeing 2 L's and why, and why I didn't just file. And that was the end of it. And once again, he's done nothing, that I know of.

he's saying he is currently comfortable with things the way they are. In fact it sounds like he's saying, if you need a divorce, go get it.

and he says this as well...

An interesting shift in your thought process lately. Not sure if it's because of some of the advice being offered or what. Lately you're talking more and more about whether you should just believe him and move on, though it's clearly NOT what you want to do.

It is because of some of the advice. It is a cycle for me. It is because I'm so tired of all the hurt. It's because I'm confused. It's because I'm afraid that I am in denial and it's time to face reality. And your right 100%. I do not WANT a D. But I am starting to think maybe I am just fooling myself and I may not have a choice.

I would refuse to be close to him when I knew he was active with another person. In fact, I would put it on the table to him directly that as long as he is involving himself with another

This is a tough one. I don't know if he is involved with her or not. I got last months phone bill and he only called her 2 times. Previously it was 2-5 times a week. He only talked to her about 15 min. Before it was 45+. I don't THINK they are seeing each other. But I don't know. If I ask him, he says no. But has since day one. So until he tells me that he is totally done with OW. That she is gone from his life. He has not done this. She is still there to me. But less and less. And so I guess I want to be around him to

feel as many good feelings as possible as it related to me, our farm, our home, and our family. I WANT him thinking about the GOOD things he's missing.

NO relationship talks. NO pressure

My EXTREME downfall! I am working at it. Just not doing so good.

Stop making plans for something you really don't want.

Isn't that "denial" for what might HAVE to be...

[theotherhalf]

toh and her H have sex.

no, not anymore...once last month, he took his and left me un*^%. So I doubt that will happen for a long time, if ever again...

[MidwesternGirl]

I do what I feel led to do by God and what the Bible says. He does not say to turn people away. He says to love unconditionally, treat them with kindness, forgive, be patient...........

That is what I am doing.

[Bworl]

First off, no worries MWG. We each handle our situation the way WE feel it needs to be handled. Our job here is to support each other the best we can, given the way each of us have chosen to approach our situation.

TOH, not going out and pushing for something you do NOT want is absolutely NOT putting off the inevitable.

Honestly now, after all the writing about how much your husband wants a divorce, but wants you to do it because "you know all the lawyers," do you REALLY buy that?

Sounds like MLC talk to me, and I don't really even buy in to the whole MLC thing completely. But I do know that these screwed up spouses all seem to have a lexicon that they use when they are feeling pressured in some way, and THAT line is definitely in there.

How does he push you away so you don't expect too much? Simple. He tells you he absolutely is done and wants a divorce.

Remember the Shakespeare line, "Methinks the lady doth protest too much?" Well that's what I see here. Any grown adult who wants a divorce can get one by heading to the courthouse, picking up papers, and start filling them out. My divorce was done WITHOUT a lawyer at all, though neither my ex nor I are wealthy people.

If your husband was TRULY sure he wanted a divorce, if he TRULY wanted a divorce, he knows darned well what to do.

ACTIONS speak far louder than words.

This is a man who is a screwed up mess. Look at his flippin decision making ability over the past year or so! To honestly, 100% buy in to all the crap that comes out of his mouth is a one way ticket to madness.

DB Principle - DETACH so that you become wise enough to recognize spew and drivel for spew and drivel, and so that you don't become dopey enough to actually ACT on the garbage that comes out of their mouths.

What do YOU want?

The answer to THAT question drives your actions. NOTHING else.

Period.

Meanwhile, you do what you can to make what you want to happen, happen. I believe your goal is the restoration of your marriage. That will NOT be accomplished by putting guilt trips on him. It will NOT be accomplished by pressuring him to make a decision (because then he will - and you won't like it).

Do work.


Blessings,

Bill

[theotherhalf]

not going out and pushing for something you do NOT want is absolutely NOT putting off the inevitable

How do I know that Bill? Isn't it just keeping us both stuck in this limbo? How do I know that he isn't absolutely sure he wants the D, but doesn't want to deal with it, doesn't want to stop farming, doesn't want the reprocutions of a D? These all the thoughts that goes around in my head these days. It's been almost 18 months and we are still no closer to D or R. I know, I know "patience" but come on...One of us has to wake up one of these days...

ACTIONS speak far louder than words

That's what I keep telling myself but I am starting to wonder if I am just as crazy as he is. That maybe his actions are telling me something that is not really true. That maybe I am seeing things I only WANT to see...

(because then he will - and you won't like it).

I know Bill, but I don't remember this until AFTER I push...

[theotherhalf]

This week (and it's only Wed.) has not went well at all. With all that is going on with VB and the funeral and stuff I've had to contact H waaay too much. I hate it as much as he does. He does NOT want to talk to me right now. He was in an okay mood Monday am when he stayed here. But since then he's been really edgy. Each time I have to talk to him, I dread him answering the phone. I cringe waiting to see if he's in better spirits. NOT.

I told him today if I could fall off the face of the earth so he never had to talk to me again, I would, but I can't so it is what it is and I'm sorry. He just chuckled.

Tonight we had N's VB game. He got there before me and sat where we always do. I hesitated to go sit there, but it was easier with onlookers. But he didn't acknowledge me nor I him. I was there probably a half an hour before he finally spoke to me. Then it was just to be snappy. I answered him and tried to be pleasant. Didn't let him get a rise from me. He did ask me to print something off from the internet for him and he'd stop and get it before work tonight. I told him I would. He just called and not going to stop. I wasn't surprised.

Don't know if I'll see him in the am. We have the funeral to go to. The rest of the week I won't have to bug him. It's obvious that he is really ticked at me, at himself, something with OW, or guilt, or something, what ever it is I hope it passes...

[MidwesternGirl]

Bill:

I totally understood your post and I was asked by another poster about how I do things and just posted what I have been doing. NO biggie. Everyone has to do what feels right for them and what works in their individual situations. And if it does not, then they change how they do things.

I am tired. Have gotta get some sleep now.

[Dawn of Hope]

thanks DOH I printed out your post and I will try it.

I know what my real "fear" is. It's the fear of losing my H forever. But I think I am reaching the point of realizing that it may just happen and there really is not a damb thing I can do about it.

TOH,
It may just happen, but it won't happen in a vacuum, and yes there IS TOO something you can do about it.

Okay, so here's how this exercise works. You said your real fear is of losing your H forever. Now go deeper. What aspects of that possibility are you afraid of? Fear of...lack of companionship? lack of sex? lack of someone to share the work on the farm? lack of someone to help you raise children? lack of self-esteem? Lack of money?

Break down those fears. Keep going down to that core. Keep asking yourself, "And why would that be a problem? What am I REALLY afraid of here?" Let's say you are afraid of going broke without H (I know, that's not the main reason, but this is an example). Okay, you're afraid of going broke. And why would that be a problem? What are you really afraid of there? Suppose the answer is that the basis of the "broke" thing is that you are afraid of losing your home. Is that the bottom-line fear or is there something deeper? Why are you afraid of losing your home? Say it's because you are afraid of not being able to afford another place to live, and being homeless. And what do you fear most about that? Maybe it's because you wouldn't be able to protect your girls' safety as well. Is that the bottom line, or is there more behind that? For some people, that fear might be based on the experience of being molested as a child, perhaps. Keep going until you get to the bottom.

Does this make sense? I hope so. This will take wisdom and courage, but I think it will help you if you have the guts to go through it and out the other side. The next step after that is to find ways to deal with and soothe those core fears.

If your H decides to go through with D (which, quite frankly, I don't think he will if you can manage to just let him alone and avoid putting pressure on him), you will have to deal with all of these fears anyway. Why not do it now, when your overall fear has not come to pass, and figure out some alternate ways of dealing with those rock-bottom fears before they go on red alert? I think this will help you detach from your H's shenanigans, which is an ability you sorely need to develop, for YOUR benefit, IMHO. It will also help you be less needy, which can only be a positive thing, both for you and for your R. Basically, if you figure out a way to deal with these deep fears, it will help you, whether your H comes home, backs away, or keeps walking the fence for miles and miles.

I "want" to stay M. I "want" to share my life with H. I "want" to stay on this farm. But life doesnt always turn out the way we "want" it to. My life today really really s*cks. I can't continue living this way for ANY reason. It's time to make it stop. Accept what is. And find a way to make it better. For ME. and for MY GIRLS. H is not my problem anymore.

Sooo, here goes...

Of course you want those things. Most people here do too. You are going to have to revisit WHY you have been standing. I personally stand because I believe with all my heart that it is what God calls me to do. I do it regardless of the outcome. The outcome does not change what I believe I need to do.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, as Eleanor Roosevelt so pithily said. Likewise, no one can make you file for D without your consent. If you don't want a D, don't file for one. It is that simple. If he had his heart set on a D, he would have filed, regardless of whatever nonsense he has thrown at you about taking up all the lawyers. That's ridiculous. If he wanted a D, he would move heaven and earth to get it. If you push him, you will shove him out of his inertia of the status quo, but in a direction YOU DON'T WANT. Your H may have a hard time getting in motion in any direction, but you will most likely get one of two different results, depending on your attitudes and behavior: If you want him to RUN out of your life, keep pushing him and putting pressure on him. If you want him to WALK slowly in your direction, give him something to look forward to whenever he is in touch with you--make that always a positive experience. It is drawing in rather than pushing, so it is going to be slower, but at least that will be in the right direction. I don't care how hard inertia grips him; if you make yourself and your home something good in his perspective, he will want to come home after a while.

This may be difficult, but I believe you can do it.

I hope this helps!
Peace,
Dawn