Should I pinch myself?

[NikB]

CW - I forget, are you in the Sacramento area? I know I "met" a bunch of people from Sac recently but forget if you were one of them. (sorry, I am easily confused.. )

If you are, I have an excellent recommendation for you. I was referred to her by Michele Weiner-Davis herself (my H was not open to phone coaching, so Michele kindly recommended someone in my area that we could see in person).

[Changed Woman]

Hi, Nik!

If you could give me a recommendation I would appreciate it more than you would ever know. My H also refused phone counseling and I've been calling around and just don't get the right "vibe" from the people I've talked to.

Did you actually attend counseling with H? If so, when you want was he just as much committed to working on the R as you were?

[NikB]

Long post warning...

Here you go. I hope it's OK to post this, since Michele herself actually recommended her:

http://www.jensenshrink.com/kj/

Please don't let her appearance fool you. I hadn't seen her before going and when we walked in I was thinking "she looks like everyone's sweet old granny!" but ohhh no. She's nice, but what make her a great mC is that she's VERY direct and to the point, and solution focused. NO ONE can get my H to open up.. seriously.. friends, family, me, he just DOES NOT talk about emotional stuff. She got him to talk. I was in shock. And they really hit it off actually - they talked cars and racing a little bit, and she even cussed a few times talking with him (which I know sounds weird as a positive.. but it helped him "click" with her better I think.. he's a mechanic, what can I say??) We sat through a lot of long uncomfortable silences when it was his turn to answer something (and after she had told me "don't try to fill in the answer for him"... it's tough not to do).

She's a bit pricey so ask about that first if it's an issue for you, but in my opinion it was worth every penny. One good think with the "solution focused" is that they're not looking for a long drawn out process, so while it's pricey, it's fewer appointments. I think she told me on average she sees people for 3-6 months and usually less often than weekly.

What she'll probably do is see you both the first time, then see each of you individually, then see you together again depending on what happens in the individual sessions. I strongly suggest staying quiet when she asks who wants to have their one on one first, in hopes she'll "steer" your H to go first. That reduces any chance he'll feel like you somehow have an 'edge' because she heard your side of the story first.

Pro marriage is tough for an MC who's going to work with both of you. It works for the DB coaches because usually the one who wants the M is the one talking to them - they don't have to "convince" you that the M is worth saving. When you're both in there, the MC has to respect BOTH of your feelings. When one wants in and one wants out... trying to "convince" the one who wants out that they should stay won't work. It just invalidates their feelings and immediately makes them distrust the counselor. What they have to aim for is helping you each figure out what you want - then helping you deal with that.

I always felt that she wanted the best for each of us, and I think H felt that way too. I think that's why it worked - there was no foregone conclusion that staying M was "best." On the flip side though, there was no foregone conclusion that D is best just because things have gone "too far" - I think with most counselors THAT'S where the problem is. They practically assume it's over the minute you start talking.

To answer your question about us.. no, we were not both working on the M. After the first bomb and a month or so of begging and pleading (yeah I know!), he finally agreed to go. Be prepared, because this can be very very painful when you're both in different spots. In some ways I feel like he used MC as a "safe" place to bomb me... it was there I heard he felt "trapped" into marrying me and such. I used up a lot of her Kleenex (which fortunately she has a lot of).

In spite of that, a LOT of good came out of it. First off like I said she managed to get him to open up, so at least I could hear what the issues were, and she helped clarify some things or get him to expand on vague things he'd told me with the "bomb." In the first session, H told me that he was "done" and it was over, but he was willing to go to MC for a little while to help me deal with it. In his individual session... she sensed some ambivalence.. I don't know what exactly happened, but ultimately, he went from being "done" to wanting a 6 month "trial separation."

She also helped keep things in perspective in terms of what was fair to me (not just legal - fair). She told H "You're the one who wants out - she shouldn't have to suffer the penalty for that while you're separated and thinking about it. You need to agree on what you feel is right" - I forget the exact wording, but it resulted in H moving (instead of trying to make me move as he had been), and paying half the house payment and bills (utils etc.). It was more than I was legally entitled to, but she appealed to H's sense of right/wrong there.

Please don't get me wrong - she DID NOT take sides, at all. I was totally impressed with her ability to get things done, make us both feel heard and respected, but NOT feel like she was taking sides whatsoever.

In my individual sessions - she REALLY gave me that "girl power" vibe too. An hour with her got me feeling soo strong.. stronger than months of work on my own.

She also gave me concrete suggestions that worked really well. One example - at the time H and I were still both trying to be "friends" with OW (barf!). I told MC how it bothered me that "the three of us" (OMG..barf again) would go out somewhere and people would think he was there with her, or I'd feel like she was subtlely putting me down while moving in on my H. MC asked if I ended up kinda hiding in the shades and feeling lonely when that happened - um, yeah!! She said "Don't do that! You stay right there on H's arm, smiling and happy and having fun - be the attractive one, not the sad boring one. And when she gets inappropriate or does something b!tchy you give her that look. You're a woman - think back to your confident dating days - you KNOW the look. That one that makes her look stupid, and makes everyone around you know what she's doing is WRONG." Then she demo'd "the look" for me. .. damn, she was good at it!

We had a good laugh and I said I'd try - she said "No trying, just do it." I ended up feeling SO much stronger after that session that I never did try "the look." I just set a boundary that I would no longer be in her presence, period. She's not welcome in my house, I'm not going to hers or anywhere with her. Yes, it meant H went out sometimes and I KNOW she was there - but me taking care of myself got more important than me fighting off the skank. She wasn't worth it.

Just one example.. she had lots of great ideas.

Honestly, we never went to her at a time when we were both working on the M. I wish H would go, but when things are going well for us he has this "We don't need MC, we're doing great!" attitude. He'll only go when things have gotten really bad and he wants to leave. At least, that's what happened the two times we got to that point. Hopefully there won't be a third.

I forget how many sessions we had with her total - probably 2 together and I think he had 1 individual, I had two... something like that. When we separated the plan was to go back at the end of the 6 months to re-evaluate where we were. H came back much quicker than that and things were going great for many months - I asked him to go once and he didn't see the point since we were doing great. Until he wanted out again last October.. then, he was willing to go to help me through it (again), but not to work on anything.

H skipped our first joint appt. and canceled his individual one, telling me he planned to reschedule. When he didn't reschedule I called her to see what happened, and she was surprised he hadn't told me anything, said it was unfair and he was supposed to. He had canceled because it was "pointless" because we were done. ouch. He didn't need to talk to anyone about it, mind was made up. I'm pretty sure he was afraid she'd talk him into a trial sep again when his mind was set on D.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to go see her to work on improving things in our M, but so far H won't go for it because of course everything's great right now.. why talk to an MC? ugh. I keep asking every so often though. I would actually love to see her as an IC, but if I do that she said we couldn't go back to her as an MC. She just feels it's not possible for both spouses to continue to see her as a neutral party if that happens.

OK that was really long winded. Sorry!

Long story very short.. call her! She's awesome. At least a quick consult on the phone.. and I'd really recommend spending the $$ for the first appointment to see what you think.

[Changed Woman]

Nik! Thank you so much...you don't know how much I appreciate this! I left her a message on her voicemail...hopefully I'll hear back next week.

Little update....I was visiting my Dad day before yesterday. H had D and calls on my cell to tell me he is going to visit my dad for about 30 minutes before he brings D home. I let him know I am AT my dads...I ask him if he would like me to leave...he says no...do you not want me to come? I say...no it's no problem, I just didn't want to make you uncomfortable. He says...oh..no I won't be. So he comes over...sits next to me on the couch...we have coffee with my dad. It was a nice visit...it felt natural...and good.

Then yesterday he calls me at work to tell me he will be working a 16 hour shift tomorrow (which is now today). Anyway, I remember him telling me that his bro was coming to help him install shelves in his garage to store his stuff so I mention it. He says..."no..changed my mind...I don't have the money right now to buy the supplies and besides they're only temporary". Anyway, he also says he has to go buy a birthday gift for a friend and D won't be going with him tonight since she is babysitting so he will go to bed early. I tell him have a good night and if he's bored call me as after work I will be home.

Sooo...I had a 4:00 meeting with my boss and she asks if I want to do dinner. I have nothing else to do so I accept. We go to a restaurant, eat dinner and have a couple of margaritas...the conversation with her was really good...as it turns out she and I have a lot in common so we go to the bar downstairs from the restaurant when we are done eating. No big deal...we just had one more drink and continue to chat. Around 9:00...I look at my cell phone and notice 2 missed calls from H. I take my boss back to her car...and call H on his cell. No answer. About 20 minutes goes by and I can barely say hello when he says "oh..I only called because I forgot D was babysitting and I wanted to tell her goodnight". Okay seriously...we talked around 4:00 about D babysitting and he called cell phone twice and there was one missed call at home. Now don't you think after the first call...if you really did forget...you would think to yourself..."ohhhhhhh that's right D is babysitting which is why she's not with me tonight"?????? Whatever...anyway...he was kind of short with me...seemed irritated about something. I was kinda buzzed so I told him I was feeling frisky...and asked him what he thought about that. He said....I am tired. I said that's fine...just wondering if you cared I have needs (I did not say it in a pathetic way...I was being flirtatious). So he says...yeah I do care..sometimes. I say..."well I know you are tired and have a long day ahead of you...have a great nights rest". He says thanks and we hang up.

This rollercoaster ride is so interesting. I miss him still.

[Changed Woman]

Short update...he called from work last night. I answered and asked if he wanted to talk to D..he said yes. I let about 2 minute go by (D's convos with her Dad are usually very short)and I picked up the other line to see if they were still on the phone as I had to call my Dad, just in time to hear him say...put your mom back on the phone. I said.."I'm here". So he asks me how my day was...what did I do today...etc. Told him my brothers had come over this morning for coffee and he asks "what do they think about us". I said what do you mean? He said..."what do they think happened?". I told him they think he moved out. I told him brothers have no ill feelings towards him, although they did tell me if I never wanted them to talk to him again they wouldn't. I told him I did not want my brothers relationship with him to change. I then asked him what his family thought...he said he doesn't talk to anyone about anything anymore. I asked him why not and he said he didn't know. I think that's his favorite answer. Anyway, not sure what to make of it.

[123snap]

CW,

Sounds positive, don't try to read too much into his not talking to his family. Ask those questions in counseling.

I think that you are doing great, keep up the good work

[NikB]

CW - you're welcome! I hope she calls you back soon and that she's as good a C for you as she was for me.

[Trixi]

Seems the being a bit detached and mysterious is starting to get you somewhere.
The big mantra is NO EXPECTATIONS.
I'm following your sitch- looking forward to further updates.

[Amy M]

CW,

You are doing great!!! I think the counseling will be good, and I trust NikB's judgement on the counselor. You'll be in good hands if you can get in with the woman she referred you to.

I'm still here rooting for you!
Amy

[Changed Woman]

Thanks for all the encouragement, Ladies

In a strange mood today. Does anyone ever think about what it would take for H to come home and become completely overwhelmed??? I woke up this morning and for whatever reason started thinking about the fact that H has furnished an entirely new home and I don't see him giving up "his security" to come home again. It all just seems so insurmountable sometimes. I know it sounds crazy, but what would he do with everything he bought? As every day goes by it just seems like our future apart is more set in stone. ARRGH! I drive myself crazy!!!!!