MLC BS2

[Patrick325]

I guess my thread locked...I was wondering if someone could respond to my last post on MLC BS....thanks for all your help!

[Patrick325]

Here, I'll repost the last one.....



Member


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 248 I got a call from my wife yesterday. She was being a little less controlling than normal. She went on to tell me she needed to borrow money. She had already borrowed money from her parents and owes them the money. It just so happens I recieved the written version of our mediation agreement and it requested 7K more than was originally offered. I have trouble lending her money(that I probably will never get back) to someone that is trying to take me through the ringer as it is. I feel bad because I hate to see her in financial straits but she isn't working and is spending money going out and hanging out with OM at the bar. I don't know what to do...I don't feel it's my responsibilty to help her if she is living with the OM but it hurts me to say no. I offered to let her have some of the oney we did agree on to hold her over but it probably won't last too long. We talked on the phone for about an hour and we were getting along a little better but she keeps telling me that I couldn't make her happy and she hopes I learn how to make another woman happy(that hurts)...I don't know if I am DBing well anymore, if I am at all. Once we get this agreement done it's over. But I want so bad to work this out and I am so tempted to pour my heart out to her but I know I can't...what can I do?? I would love to be her knight in shining armor but I don't want to be her doormat either. I had to reiterate to her that I have to take care of myself because I have noone to help me with a place to stay or pay my bills if I lost my job. I could lend her some money but it would eat into my emergency money and right now it is important to have. Everytime I think things can't get worse or more difficult they do....
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H 41

[SirPrizeMe]

Patrick!
Whoosh. I'm just one guy, but I've give you my take.

• Soon-to-be-ex wife asking to Borrow money? The answer is NO. This is a really easy one. And if it hurts you to say no, then consider it a growth opportunity for yourself. Something you need to get better at - saying NO to her. I feel it is totally appropriate to brainstorm with her about other ways to solve her problem, like borrowing from her family, friends, getting a job, etc. But DO NOT lend her money. She is stringing you along. This is her controlling you. You wrote she was being a little less controlling than normal... Bullspit. She is asking to borrow money. Just say NO.
• Agreeing for her to take an early (partial) advance on the money out of the marriage is no problem. That is her money, she's just getting it early. No problem with that.
• but she keeps telling me that I couldn't make her happy and she hopes I learn how to make another woman happy(that hurts)... I'm sure it doesn't feel good. Is she right? Did you make her happy? Did you do what you could to make her happy? Could you improve in that area? If so, do it. If not, forget it.

But I want so bad to work this out and I am so tempted to pour my heart out to her but I know I can't...what can I do?? I would love to be her knight in shining armor but I don't want to be her doormat either. I had to reiterate to her that I have to take care of myself because I have noone to help me with a place to stay or pay my bills if I lost my job. I could lend her some money but it would eat into my emergency money and right now it is important to have. Everytime I think things can't get worse or more difficult they do....

If I were there I would shake you. Snap out of it man!

Of course you want this to work out. Of course you do. But it might not. So what now?

She doesn't need a knight to save her. She needs reality to bite her. There is nothing better you can do for her, than let life happen to her. Let consequences occur. Let it be. That is the best thing right now. You focus on you. Keep your savings. Don't lend it to her, or anyone. You don't need to re-iterate anything to her, or explain why you are not lending her money. Just say NO. There is no explanation required. Just NO.

And yes, you should not pour out your heart to her. She already knows how you feel.

I want you to do something - I want you to go get this book: The Way of the Superior Man and read it.

Once we get this agreement done it's over.

It's over when you decide it's over. The agreement means nothing. It's just a paper. You are in charge.

Go get that book!
Read it. Twice.

[Patrick325]

Has anyone else read this book...It sounds interesting but one of my wife's complaints was that I was controlling(even though I don't agree).

[InLikeFlynn]

No loans!!! Let the OM be her banker!!! She made her choice!!! She is only being nice to try and get the loan and hope you will buckle for the extra 7K on the settlement. The more money she needs the more likely she will buckle on the settlement. Take care of yourself.

[Dawn of Hope]

Hi, Patrick,
I have no experience whatsoever with the legal system getting involved in a M or living separately (my H still lives at home, a year post-bomb, but is carrying on full-blast with his A--gag me!!), but I will give you my opinion on your sitch, and you can take it for whatever you think it's worth.

In general, I agree with pretty much everything that others have already posted to you about this, but I have a bunch of specific comments. Be warned: I don't pull a lot of punches.

I got a call from my wife yesterday. She was being a little less controlling than normal. She went on to tell me she needed to borrow money.

So what?? You NEED her to live up to her vows to you, and that ain't happenin' right now either. DO NOT lend her any money. If you had it to spare, it might be worth considering (key word here is MIGHT), but that is a moot point when you don't.

She had already borrowed money from her parents and owes them the money. It just so happens I recieved the written version of our mediation agreement and it requested 7K more than was originally offered. I have trouble lending her money(that I probably will never get back) to someone that is trying to take me through the ringer as it is. I feel bad because I hate to see her in financial straits but she isn't working and is spending money going out and hanging out with OM at the bar.

Stephen Covey (7 Habits of Highly Effective People, great book) has a phrase I love: If you pick up one end of the stick, you pick up the other. In case you're not familiar with it, it refers to natural consequences of one's actions, a.k.a. "You reap what you sow." In the case of your W, she has left her H, D is in process, she is not working, and she is putting her emotional and physical eggs in OM's basket. Now she is apparently shocked that spending madly + no income = bills stacking up. "Oh my, how did THAT happen; where did those big negative numbers come from??! Someone must be out to get me!" And she is trying to solve the problem by mooching off of the H she has (I'm guessing) been hard at work trying to disassociate herself from.

You need to take Nancy Reagan's advice here and JUST SAY NO. (I wouldn't roll over and give her the extra $7K in the paperwork either, but that's just me.) You do not have to explain yourself to her or make excuses. You can just say politely, "I'm sorry, but I can't do that." And if she questions you as to why, just keep repeating, "I just can't," like a broken record, until she stops asking. Look in the mirror and practice these two phrases until they are so ingrained in you that they pop out automatically when you are offered something you know isn't good for you, like a donut or a one-night stand.

I do not believe that standing requires beggaring yourself so that your WAS can have whatever they want. This is where boundaries come into play, and that is an individual choice for each LBS. So many LBS's lose all of their self-respect and self-esteem, and I think that is a very sad thing, because WAS's do not become automatically more entitled to anything good in the LBS's life. The squeaky wheel may get the grease, but not because it DESERVES it any more than the quiet wheels do.

Do not give her control of your emotional steering wheel. You are the person in charge of what you do, think, and feel. Nobody else, regardless of how it seems. Inform yourself, take advice if you need it, but then base your decisions on the bedrock of your integrity, what you know to your core is right for you. Operate in a way that you know will allow you to live with yourself best in the years to come. Sometimes other people will be gratified by the results of this, and sometimes they won't like it at all. Do what is right regardless.

I was told by a number of people I respect, including my pastor and my therapist, that I should insist on a deadline for my H to decide whether or not he would move out. I was on the verge of doing so, because I was so uncertain about things, but the more I thought about it, the more disturbed I felt about that course of action, so I decided that for the time being I would choose not to press the issue with my H. I sincerely feel that this is the path I am currently being guided to take--that of nonconfrontation. And my H is still here after a year, when he initially indicated he would be deciding in a few days, although to be honest I don't see any signs of reconciliation or softening toward me on his part. However, I firmly believe that regardless of how it all turns out in the end, this is the right thing for me to do right now, and I will not have regrets about choosing this path. I have peace about my choice.

On the other hand, I am not interested in subsidizing his immoral behavior, being that he has been spending about 10% of our household income on OW-related expenses for the last year, so I no longer deposit any of my earnings into our joint account, but I do pay for everything I buy (including stuff for the household) out of my own income and don't touch his for any of my purchases (he earns almost 10x what I do). I have peace about this course of action too. I stay alert for divine guidance to change direction on a dime.

I don't know what to do...I don't feel it's my responsibilty to help her if she is living with the OM

EXACTLY! She wants to share her life with him instead of you? Well, let her do so...the good stuff AND the bad. It's a package deal.

but it hurts me to say no.

Wouldn't it hurt more if you said yes, and then she took your money and walked away into the sunset with OM, with your emergency funds in her hot little hand?

There is a fine line between sacrificial love and allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. It is important for you to find that line and stay on the right side of it. I think that in a healthy R, the sacrifices pretty much balance out in the end, although of course that is not one's main concern.

One of the crucial questions that covers everything we do in our R's, broken or not, is: What is my LONG-TERM goal for this R? If you can answer that, it will help immensely in guiding you in the short term. Keep in mind that if you give away everything you have (in one or more senses...emotional, financial, physical, etc.) there CANNOT BE a long-term for the R...so that is not a short-term solution. You have to put on your own oxygen mask before you can help anyone else with theirs.

I offered to let her have some of the oney we did agree on to hold her over but it probably won't last too long.

I think this is more generous than I would be, but it is a nice thing for you to do. That being said...she dug herself into this hole, and it is her responsibility to get herself out. She does not get to pick and choose what aspects of a marital relationship she is going to have with you when she is walking away from the M. Once again...it's a package deal.

We talked on the phone for about an hour and we were getting along a little better but she keeps telling me that I couldn't make her happy and she hopes I learn how to make another woman happy(that hurts)

Oh, PLEASE. I thought you said she was being less controlling!? This is button-pushing 101! Of course it hurts! That is the ultimate goal with this sort of comment, although it will never be admitted.

Does she have any SPECIFIC complaints in this realm that are valid (in other words, not falling in the "you use bagged salad" arena)? If so, work on fixing them as best you can (you may not be able to work on them in your R with her, but do so by yourself for future reference). If not, be Teflon and let it slide off of your back. So many people--especially WAS's, and especially MLC WAS's--try to make themselves feel better and more justified in their actions by tearing down the other person. If you don't know whether her criticisms are valid or not, ask a less-biased friend to help you figure it out.

Whenever she starts saying stuff like "You couldn't make me happy," unless she is giving you specifics that are useful to you for future reference, the phrase you want here is "I'm sorry you feel that way." When you hear things like "I hope you learn how to make another woman happy," lie there and think of England. Or mentally whistle "Dixie," if you prefer.

I don't know if I am DBing well anymore, if I am at all. Once we get this agreement done it's over.

No, it's over when you decide it's over. It has little to do with paperwork.

As for DBing, just start fresh every day. Remember, what is your LONG-TERM goal?

But I want so bad to work this out and I am so tempted to pour my heart out to her but I know I can't...what can I do?? I would love to be her knight in shining armor but I don't want to be her doormat either.

Sometimes stirring the pot makes things worse, and I sense that this is one of those times. I think she needs space from you to get herself sorted out. I don't think anything you say to her right now is going to push her in the right direction, so the best you can do is to leave her alone and try not to make things worse.

As for what you do in the meantime, go back to the DB basics...GAL, take good care of yourself, find what makes you happy and do it, focus on yourself and your kids and rediscover who YOU are that might have gotten a little lost along the way. Come to the board or lean on wise and trusted friends if you need to vent or get advice.

I had to reiterate to her that I have to take care of myself because I have noone to help me with a place to stay or pay my bills if I lost my job. I could lend her some money but it would eat into my emergency money and right now it is important to have. Everytime I think things can't get worse or more difficult they do....

Oh, things can ALWAYS get worse; you can take that to the bank and deposit it. Deterioration is triggered by the phrase "things can't possibly get any worse..."

I hope you haven't fallen asleep reading this looooooong post, and I do hope it helps.

Peace and courage,
Dawn

[SirPrizeMe]

Patrick - ps: the book is about being strong without being controlling. "Superior" here means "the best you can be" not "better than the other person".

[Patrick325]

thanks for the posts...I really needed them. I was beginning to feel all alone in this. Dawn, Flynn and Sir, you all give great advice and get me back on track!

[SirPrizeMe]

ok gimme the update. What's happening? did you get the book?

Patrick, how are your daughters? I'll bet they are darlings, tell me about them.

[Patrick325]

I didn't get the book yet but plan on it soon....My daughters seem to be doing pretty well. It's hard to get them to open up too much at their ages. My oldest spent some extra time with me this weekend which was pretty nice. I had a small footall party Sunday so she spent the night Sat and helped me set up and clean up. We had a lot of fun and most of our guests were family(my Wife's)...the twins don't seem to mind staying over there too much. Every once in a while they will complain that the OM's kids get to have their friends over more than my kids. I guess I am the one taking it hardest but I don't let my kids know it...