Are you still going to the Post session? In our group we were told that each of us was to do a 180 each week (there are suggestions in the book) and the other spouse tries to notice. Sounds like he is not doing any 180's. For us the cumulative effect of the different 180's made all the difference. For example, we never acknowledged hellos and goodbyes. So his 180 was to kiss me goodbye in the morning before he left for work, even though I was sleeping. When I welcomed that it quickly turned in something a little more interesting. And I initiated kissing him hello each night when he returned from work. As you point out, it is the little things that matter. You are completely right that he needs to leave his comfort zone a little bit and move towards you. I recommend dialoguing about it rather than talking.
Well, Sara, we haven't dialogued in 11 days, either....H is just too busy with too many things that are not ME or OUR MARRIAGE....
I asked him last night what his plans were for today, he said "NO, tell me what YOU want to do tomorrow (today now)...."
I said, "Okay, I will. I want to spend the entire day with you hanging out together enjoying each other." I knew that was NOT his plan..
He said, "I am going to be putting up fence at mom and dad's tomorrow. You are welcome to come and hang out/help me if you want to spend time with me." Of course, it is always IF I want to see him, not the other way around...
So that involved me asking my parents YET AGAIN to watch the kids. They were already there from last night so I went over today and visited for an hour or so and then left to go see Dan. His parents had informed me yesterday that they were going to "hire someone" to come help Dan with the fence. So there was a High School kid who rode his bike over to help....I stayed for 25 minutes, got them both some water, and decided it was a waste of my time to stay.
I could get more done going home and mowing the yard for an hour, then getting the kids. He had a kid there to help with the job as well as I could, plus we couldn't exactly chit-chat/flirt/etc while he worked with another person there (GEE thanks, MIL and FIL). So I left.
I just got back to our house to mow and already I have a VM from H. It seems he left his tape measure in my car, could I drive back out to the farm and bring it to him? Sure I could. I am good for something, right?
Sorry, I am taking John's crabby pills today (just kidding John). I am just at my wits end. I was carefully observing H's interactions with High School Helper Boy. He was very polite and calm and friendly with him. H is also that way on the phone with his co-workers and friends. Apparently I am the lucky one that gets the brunt of his unhappiness....
And when I went in to get water, there is a bank statement lying in the center of the kitchen table with H's name on it for the local bank. He has $260 is a savings acct which gets statements mailed to his mom and dad. He had a $150 savings balance a couple years ago that got mailed there--left over from high school days. At the time I told him to close it out and move it into our account. I am just SURE that he did, so what is up with this new one? I know it is only $260 but I don't have my own accounts anywhere and they sure wouldn't be mailed to my parents if I did have them...sigh
OK, so you didn't get the whole day. It is time to insist on the 20 minutes of dialogue. Without it you are lost. If there is no discipline you will get shut out of his day every day. 20 minutes isn't a lot, and it won't raise his blood pressure. From your vantage point, 20 minutes with no distractions puts the 2 of you in one place together....who knows, perhaps he won't jump up afterwards and go build any fences. You might end up spending more time with him without having to beg for it. Now for a dialogue question, "how do I feel about spending time together?"
What I learned in the past 18 months from weekly IC & weekly MC;
1. take things are face value 2. the one in distress has the obligation to speak up 3. do not make strong declarative statements 4. Ask questions... What can I do differently next time ? 5. If you have a need or want, you might want to state it out loud. Neither one of us is capable of reading minds. 6. Be specific with requests, & know that it's okay for the other person to say yes, no, or I'll think about it. 7. It's okay for the other person to be angry. 8. It's NOT OKAY to scream, yell, call names, get personal, intimidate, or threaten the other. 9. It's nice to be able to depend on someone, it sucks to be dependent on anyone. 10. The healthiest relationship is a "power equal" relationship. 11. Save yourself first.
12. The people here (DB) really care. Some of them are more like family to me than my own flesh & blood. Hugs
BBJ, I have reading your thread since you moved over here. The list above is from Cookie's thread. She went thru a lot of the frustration you are feeling now. I do think Sara is right you have to get the dialouge scheduled and flowing. I understand the feeling like you are carrying the load, part of that comes from not getting the feedback you crave. You can handle it. Are you still running? The weather has cooled here so running is much more enjoyable. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thanks guys. Right now I just want to cry. I feel so lost about this, defeated almost. I know how to make it through and keep my Marriage. I can let H go do fence whenever he wants, work on cows however he wants, spend money however he wants, and never complain that he doesn't spend time with me or show me affection.
But then I will die inside.
I can scream and wail and pound my fist and demand that he step up or get out. Then I will be the crazy lady he couldn't live with anymore.
Those are the two extremes. I feel like I have been living the happy medium so far and it isnt working, either. Taking things from the list:
2. the one in distress has the obligation to speak up : I do this whenever I am frustrated. He tends to act sad/guilty but then not really change his ways, or change them for a day or two...
3. do not make strong declarative statements : You mean, like saying "I can't live like this anymore?" Crap, guess I won't say that, then
4. Ask questions... What can I do differently next time ? : I do that often, then try a new approach, but seem to get the same (non) result.
5. If you have a need or want, you might want to state it out loud. Neither one of us is capable of reading minds. : This is one of my strengths. I can tell H exactly what I want from him, such as hand-holding, words of affection, time spent alone together, dialogue time, phone in view, etc. I tell him exactly what I want. He says it is all reasonable. Then he lapses on half of it...
6. Be specific with requests, & know that it's okay for the other person to say yes, no, or I'll think about it. : This is what I did yesterday, I sent him the cute invite about having a "date" last night, even having my mom get the kids. He did not reply. I talked to him an hour later. I asked if he read the e-mail with the invite. He said "Yes, I haven't answered yet, but I will". Then he didn't. I just called my mom anyway and arranged for her to take the kids. He never came out and said yes, he just said (at 6 when he got home from work and I had to go work at the football game) "If you want to, that would be fine".
7. It's okay for the other person to be angry. : H gets angry at me for things but when I am angry he acts all stressed and says it raises his blood pressure/angina issue...
8. It's NOT OKAY to scream, yell, call names, get personal, intimidate, or threaten the other. : I have only done that once but I am so feeling the urge at this point. I will control it though.
9. It's nice to be able to depend on someone, it sucks to be dependent on anyone.: That's kinds of my whole point. I am NOT dependent on H, but I NEED to know that I can depend on him and that our M isn't just surviving day-to-day without a long-term commitment from BOTH of us.
10. The healthiest relationship is a "power equal" relationship. : This is NOT happening. H spent $500 on fencing supplies and $800 on cattle feed and didn't bother to tell me. I dont' want him to have to ask, but I want to be informed, I told him I want to be a partner in OUR cattle business. When it comes to our M, H keeps telling me that if I want something, I need to tell him, or I need to initiate it, or whatever. Where is HIS effort in this? Just showing up at home each night, while an improvement from last year, is not enough for me now even if it would have been then.
11. Save yourself first. : Meaning? For me to save myself from this frustration would mean walking away for a time-out at this point. I don't know what to do.
12. The people here (DB) really care. Some of them are more like family to me than my own flesh & blood. Hugs : Agreed
As far as dialoguing on "How do I feel about spending time together", I am starting to get frustrated about dialogue. We only have two post-sessions left. I feel like the "Doing" part of the process should be kicking in.
What is the point of me saying that when I spend time with H I feel free, comforted, etc. etc.. And then H saying spending time together makes him feel conflicted like he has to choose between two important things (he has made comments like this before).
I can say all day long that I love spending time together. He can say all day long that when he is spending time with me part of him is torn that he can't spend that time with his kids or his cows. Where does that leave us????
Coach, I need to run about 5-6 miles right now. That is the usual way I get my frustrations out......
Bbj, just wanted to let you know I am reading and I am sorry you feel bad right now. I am at a very low point myself today (for reasons not related to my xH-I maypost some tomorrow) and I cant find a ny wise words to tell you. At least Sara and coach are giving you some good advice... Take a step back and act as if you are just hitting a bump. That's all I can think of right now. You knew this was going to be hard... Hugs and kisses Love ya K
OK, I didn't mean you had to use that question. You are the best judge of what question you need answered. But looking at what you say, maybe the question is more like how do I feel about our difficulty in finding time for each other? Because you do have a conflict inside. It's not all rosy when you spend time together. You feel cheated knowing that he would rather be somewhere else, doing something else, and you feel patronized, and you feel demanding, and all-together unsatisfied with the way things happen. This is a knot that needs to be sorted out.
Thanks for listening Sara. You are right, it is a knot inside both of us, but for different reasons. I had last night pictured in my head. The kids would leave, I would put out all the blankets, pour the wine, we would sit/lay together on the floor for the movie. Then I would take H to our room, light the candles, and give him a massage.
Instead, he is watching ESPN and gangster-rap documentaries. Nothing wrong with that in general, but it wasn't my vision of our time together...
Something needs to change and we both need to keep working on it...
There is a part in the movie "The Break Up" w/Jenifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn where she is upset he didn't offer to help with the dishes. Him--You want me to do the dishes? Fine
Her--NO, I want you to WANT to do the dishes.
Him--Who WANTS to do the dishes?
For me, it is the same circular argument, but instead of dishes, it is "hang out together doing nothing but enjoying each other". I don't want H to do it so he can check that box off his to-do list, I want him to want to spend time with me, to look forward to it, to plan it himself sometimes......But demanding he do that will never get the result i am looking for b/c it would still be ME-driven. Make sense?
Makes total sense. I don't need to you to do it, I want you to do it. You want the motivation to be because it's out of love not out of because it's on the the to do list. Figure that one out and I'll buy you a beer. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
