New Here-From Newcomers- hoping for more input...

[istherehope]

Hi Opt (maybe this sounds better than calling you "OW" :)),

Sorry as I didn't read through all of your past threads, but I think I have a reasonable indication of what's going on.

So you talk to Jody too--seems half of us on the board talk to Jody!

Like you, our progress seems to come from confrontations. We have had I think 3 confrontations since I have been here (approximately 2 months). 2 have been in the last 2 weeks. It was after one of these that H admitted to missing me and wrote that email. It was after the 2nd (yesterday) that he asked me to stay 2 nights in the house next week, and texted me to say good night for the first time in months.

Without knowing the intricacies of your situation, I'd say that taking a risk can be a good thing. When I look at most of the success stories on the board, it seems as though major progress has come from unexpected events. I believe the DBing gets you to the point where you have more credibility with the WAS, and are more able to deal calmly with the spew and venom, but that in most cases something needs to shake them up. I think it's ideal if the WAS can initiate the conversation, but sometimes I feel like we need to lead them there. In my case, H has initiated, but I have reacted to the point where we have had disagreements. Those have shaken things up. What is your plan? What kind of a risk are you planning to take or how would you like to test the waters?

How long have you been doing what you've been doing? If it's more than 6 weeks, I think it is definitely time to try something new. Do you keep track of what works and what doesn't work? You've also mentioned it's been 2 weeks since you got an ILY, but that you have been getting them on and off. I think that's a REALLY good sign. Are there any actions that you take that seem to lead to the ILYs?

ITH

[optimistwife]

Up too early this morning. Woke up 2 hours before my alarm. I hate that! It always happens when I am on a bit of a downward turn internally.

I am getting itchy for a confrontation! I can feel it. I am having urges to press the R issues, tell him where I'm at, find out where he's at. I am sure partly because I am turning 35 monday, feel like this year and life are going by faster, what a waste of the summer, etc...

The ILY I got was after a fight- he was mad because the house didn't seem like he belonged there. Actually started because the pillow wasn't firm enough, offered to get him another one (my role as fixer), and he spewed that it would be hard to come home cause nothing works for him in this house- it is like it isn't his (uh- he took all his stuff out!). My crying, him mad, softened a bit, I admitted house doesn't feel right any more- isn't a home for me either- just a place. He hugged me and let me fall alseep with my head on his shoulder. Next morning was when he gave me hug and told me... I guess not quite the ILY forever and ever and I'm coming back, but the first time in over a month he used those words at all.

I do think that for us to make progress I might have to push envelope. But I am afraid as well. I will have to do some thinking about how to approach him. Need to get out of bad mental attitude first. PMSing as well.

I kind of wish my H would be a little bit more like yours, a bit more open. At least then I could get a clue about his life...

[istherehope]

Hi Opt,

Oh be careful what you wish for!!!

I think the reason my H is being so open is that his chief complaint in the R was that he was "not heard". Now I am going to hear him no matter what he has to say! This is how Jody explained it to me. We've done joint sessions where he has just RAILED at me.

At least when he is not being open with you it means you don't need to hear the mean parts either. With openness comes both good (very little though I think with these WASs) and very negative.

So how are you thinking that you could push the envelope? Do you think there is a way that you could lead him to initiate a conversation? What would be a 180 for you?

Do you keep a solutions journal?

ITH

[JCJ]

Hi Optimistwife

I agree with Jody that you should be careful around contacting his family, this has backfired for me in the past because when all is done and said he is still their son even if they don't agree with his actions. It can also make the WAS's feel like they are being ganged up on and make them retreat more.

I would just say don't back your h into a corner. At this point you want to make him feel like he can approach you. Don't take you eyes of the cheese.

[optimistwife]

Okay- cheese. I love cheese. All varieties...

Good reminders.

I have been keeping a journal, but have not put as much effort into it the past few weeks. Have to get dilligant. One of the problems was that I hid it when my H came over, and need to put it back by my bedside. I was doing well while I was very focused on my little goals. Thanks for nudging me in the right direction.

I am very wary of the family thing. I think I will sit back for a good long time again. I am not looking to initiate contact- and have told them that. I agree that they should always be there for him first.

One of the things my H seemed to dislike at the end (or hate) was that I was a planner. I have been very organized and focused, made things happen in my life. Which is why it is so hard to not try to put a schedule/timeline on things.

But- he is in his last year of prof. school and very stressed just with that. He's putting in long hours, has to worry about national boards, applying for jobs, etc in the next few months. This is the worst time to have our marriage be in this state. An awful time too for me to ask him to find time to work on 'us' or make decisions about our R.

I was thinking a 180 would be to see if he would be willing to not make ANY decisions about us at all for the next few months. Just worry about himself, getting through school, boards, etc. Ask him to take care of himself first and worry about us later.

I would rather he delay making a decision than feel like he needed to make one during a time when he wasn't able to really think straight. And make one he would regret once those hurdles were past.

This is the first plan that actually strikes me as having potential merit.

And it makes it about his needs instead of mine (180 again).

[Clayton]

One of the things my H seemed to dislike at the end (or hate) was that I was a planner. I have been very organized and focused, made things happen in my life. Which is why it is so hard to not try to put a schedule/timeline on things.

These are very very good character traits. I am impressed when people display this behavour.

[istherehope]

Hi Opt,

My H also hated me having plans and schedules. It seems to be a very common theme on this board. WAHs seem to have felt controlled, stifled etc. by us.

My H is also in his last year of an MBA program, so things were in a general state of flux for us anyway. I too wouldn't want him making big decisions right now (unless he suddenly was released from the aliens), but I also don't think I would want to specifically TELL him not to make decisions.

Just a thought, but from what you've said, your H sees you as overly schedule/timeline oriented, and thus potentially as controlling. If you tell him that you don't want him to make any decisions for the next 3 months, he could POSSIBLY see this as controlling. I sort of tried the same tactic with my H on a call once, and it didn't go over so well. It still gives the impression that you are waiting around for him to make up his mind, which of course in a way you are, as we all are, whether we GAL successfully or not, we are still married but in limboland.

Since it seems that you do actually see your H on a regular basis, could you instead maybe SHOW him that you don't expect him to make any decisions by avoiding R talks, not bringing them up etc.? Perhaps if he does try to start one himself, you could say something like "I'm just enjoying what we have right now" or something like that? I'm just wondering WHY he feels like he has to make a decision right now to begin with?

ITH

[JCJ]

I too like schedules but it seems a general theme that the WAS's don't. It isn't really fair in the LBS but it is just how it is at the moment. I think the 180 here would to just not mention time limitations. You saying that you don't want him to work on things is telling him what to do or how to feel. It is his choice to work on things, or not, and no amount of telling will make him to do it, just like when we choose to work on ourselves. It also sounds like the 180 may be to let him lead the contact, ask him where he would like to go if he suggests meeting etc and let him organise the time.

I found with my sitch, before I found DBing, that I scheduled our 'dates' as it made me feel better. I organised that we would meet every Wednesday and he agreed. This greatly reduced my stress but he then turned around a few months later and said he didn't think about me between meetings. Well, in a way, he had no need to. He knew that he was going to see me next Wednesday and he knew that I was going to organise what we did, he had no real reason to think. JMO

[optimistwife]

Well, I guess for now I will just lay low and live without 'plans'. It is hard for me though!

Just heard from one of my friends that her daughter (who is pregnant with her 7th!) was just left by her H. I gave her all of the DB and DR info, and I hope she comes here right away! Hearing about her and what she is going through right now makes me realize how FAR I have come in 3 months.

Working day 2 of a 6 day stretch- so haven't had a lot of time to journal, but on the other hand don't have a lot of time to get down about things either. And my H would like to spend Sunday evening together

[istherehope]

Hi Opt,

7 children!!! Oh my...

Hope your friend will have time to do some DBing, though I'd say she's probably busy enough to keep herself distracted :).

Yes I don't like not having plans either. Doesn't mean you can't have plans at ALL though, just not plans in the way that you would maybe hope to have had them. For example I don't necessarily know what day/when/how my H will reach out to me, BUT I do have a sort of plan or "model" if you will for how I should address the different types of contact. Doesn't mean I always do as well as I could, but it is my plan and I am controlling my own behavior, which is the only control we are really left with.

There's a great resource in the forums somewhere if you're interested that has really helped my own PMA. It's called the special as-if model. You could probably do a search for it if you decided you were interested. I posted a link to it in Daisy's thread a few weeks ago I believe. Well my point here is that this theory is that you actually have a lot more "control" or maybe it's better to say understanding of the relationship than you think you do. Your H is not so focused on the relationship, so really doesn't understand the dynamics. You are focused on it, and do understand the dynamics, and understand what's going on. It then goes on to talk about different layers to a personality. There is the core layer, the "A" layer that doesn't really change much over time, the deeply held values around marriage, family, religion etc. Then there is another layer protecting that, then finally there is the "C" layer, or the sort of ever-changing "right now" layer. It is from this that we hear the spew, but this doesn't usually reflect the person's core values. The concept is that it is very likely that your H still has the same love for you, the same feelings about marriage etc., but that the feelings are bruised and buried. It then goes on to talk about meeting the "right now" values by validating, and working to start meeting core A values over time. It goes on to say that couples who make it back to each other go through 3 phases. There is the withdrawal phase, probably where the bomb is dropped. Then there is the transition phase, which is where I guess it can go either way. It suggests that we have the chance to use the transition phase well by starting to meet our S's core needs again, even though they may not be aware of this yet. So we find ways to be the very best friends possible and support them with as much love as possible etc. If this is successful, then the final stage is intimacy where both parties are working on the relationship again. My point with all of that is that this IS something you have input and control over, i.e. the way that you drive the process from your side, and the way in which you choose to react, and thus actually make changes in the situation and "drive" it forward.

Anyway sorry for rambling on. Just something that I've found useful, and sounds like we are similar in many ways :).

ITH