Okay, I'm not really sure where to start...I should have posted last night when it was more fresh in my mind.....
H was supposed to pick D up from my Dad's house when he got off work yesterday, but something happened and he got off 3 hours late. I picked D and told H he could come get her from my house when he got off. Well...in the car on the way home D has a breakdown and starts talking about how she lost it in PE today because she had gotten in trouble for forgetting her gym clothes and when the teacher asked her why she started to explain that her dad had moved out and she kept forgetting things at one house or another, but couldn't get the words out before she started crying and pouring out her heart to the teacher. She and I talk for a bit about how she is feeling and I try to comfort her the best I can...it's very strange her anger towards her dad is increasing...not getting better.
Anyway, when her dad gets to the house to pick her up she asks if she can stay with me. He says she can do what she wants...instead of leaving he sits down for a bit and we start to chat. I can't remember how it got brought up but he mentions something about life being too short to be unhappy. I ask him if he was really THAT unhappy. He says "I don't know what I was....you know you make decisions in life not really knowing if they are the right ones...but thinking they are at the time. I would give anything to have a crystal ball". I'm not really sure how to respond to this so I just say..."I know what you mean". Anyway, we keep talking and D starts text messaging me from her cell phone to mine and is motioning behind her dad (so he can't see) for me to read the text message. I do and it says "tell him what happened to me in PE today". So she leaves the room and I tell him she wants him to know what happened with her at school. Convo went something like this:
Me: D had a problem at school today...she broke down in PE because of our situation and ended up missing part of her Science class because she couldn't calm down. Him: I know she's upset but I can't give her what she wants Me: What do you think she wants? Him: She wants us to get back together and that isn't going to happen Me: It's not huh? Him: No Me: You know that for sure? Him: That's the way I feel right now Me: So you want me to give up on you? Him: If that's what you want to do Me: That's not what I want to do but it seems like you want me to Him: Did you ever think maybe I'm punishing you for the hurt you caused me...maybe I want you to know how it feels Me: I have been hurting...this all hurts very much Him: You haven't been hurting long enough Me: Don't you ever miss us Him: No...I don't think about it. I know you seem like you have changed, but I can't take the chance that it would be the same...too much has happened between us...I don't love you like I should. When you love someone you should feel like you would do anything for them. Me: I feel that way about you Him: I don't feel that way about you Me: It doesn't matter to you that it would make your daughter happy if her family could be back together? Him: I can't do it for her...it's too late Me: I will never be able to understand why counseling wasn't an option for you Him: I am tired of working on us! I just want to get a long for a really long time and stop talking about all this sh#$! Me: How can we get along if we never spend time together? Him: I don't want to spend time with you right now Me: That hurts...I know you don't feel like you could love me like that again, but that is because you keep telling yourself that...maybe you should try telling yourself something good about me Him: I have been noticing good things about you Me: And counseling isn't an option? Him: No...the only way I would go to counseling is to figure out how to co-parent better Me: I just feel like if we could go to a counselor...if nothing else I could get some closure. Maybe you are right...maybe it is too late, but maybe it's not...I would just like the opportunity to go to someone and lay it all on the table and see what happens
***This is where it gets weird***
Him: Ok Me: Huh??? Him: OK Me: Ok, you will go to counseling? Him: Yeah Me: Do you want to pick out the counselor Him: No Me: You want me to? Him: Yeah Me: And you aren't going to change your mind when you leave here Him: No
So he then says he's tired and has to go...calls D down for a kiss and he leaves.
Fast forward to today. He pages me at work. I call him convo goes like this:
Him: Do you have a JCPenney coupon for some kind of discount offer. Me: Probably..why Him: I need new clothes for my job Me: Do you want help picking them out Him: You aren't off for another two hours and I don't want to drive back and forth from here to home and back again (he lives in a different town) Me: Well...I can meet you at the JCPenney in your town Him: I like the one here better Me: Can you hang around for an hour...I can be off at 4:00 Him: You are actually going to meet me at 4:00 Me: Yeah Him: Ok
So, we hang up and I'm freakin out thinking this is the man that wants to spend no time with me. I then get another page from him and assume it's to tell me nevermind. I call him back though and he is just reminding me to look for a coupon.
Sooooo...I meet him at the mall and let him know the only coupon I had was for use with a credit card. I tell him he can use mine and pay it off when he has the money next pay day. We shop for clothes...I had fun..he seemed normal. When we are done we walk outside the store...I kiss D goodbye and tell her to have fun with Dad and start to walk away. He moves toward me with an arm out and gives me a hug and says thank you. The hug did feel kind of forced, but it was nice to have a normal interaction with him.
So, I'm working on finding a counselor before he changes his mind...I'm kind of nervous because I know I am only going to get one shot at this and I don't want to blow it. Anyone have an ensight as to what is going on here or have any advice for me?
Oh good luck! Research your counselor quickly but carefully. I feel like the one I picked back when my husband WAS willing to go ended up being NOT pro-marriage. Told me that since we didn't have kids that it wasn't as important that we stayed married. Never tell that to a 34 year old who wants kids! With the man she married...
Ask if they are solution based, pro-marriage. Hopefully you have one up your sleeve and ready to go. Would he be willing to talk to a DB coach-
Sorry- i am just so excited that he has given you this chance. Sometimes they are nuts! Take advantage of this time of letting his guard down.
Me-36 H-30 T-7yr, M-3yr DivorceBusting Saved my marriage! sep 6-08 to 12-08. Together again, things are good!
Wow! That's a development for sure. I should warn you, though, that he may be thinking that he's going to go to counseling so you'll finally understand that he's done. I'm not saying that he really is done...he's obviously not! But, I am saying that might be his motive. My H did the same thing when our trouble started last year.
I would see if someone at DB can recommend a counselor. You do need someone who can help quickly, and if your H is like my H, he will only give it 3 sessions before he's done. With a standard counselor, 3 sessions ain't near enough!!!
And, I'd be real upfront that your H was less than enthusiastic about the counseling. If they know that, they can put your H on the hook in the beginning for attending several sessions, etc. Then he's committed that to someone else...not you. He might stay with it better if that's the case.
I see this as a huge opportunity. But, in the meantime, you might want to back off the R talk a little. You likely don't even realize that you do it (I don't realize in my sitch and NikB always points out what I should have done differently!). But, I think you might be better off scheduling the counseling; Telling him when it is; And, making that the only R talk you have between now and then.
Remember that everytime you say, "So, you really don't see a future with me?" it forces him to respond with something like, "No. Not now." Because he doesn't right now...if he did, he'd move home, and he can't do that (pride)!!! That reenforces in his mind what he's been telling himself for a while. Don't make him keep saying things like that out loud! Quit asking. When you talk about D's issues with the sitch...make sure that you focus only on D's issues and what the 2 of you can do to help her deal with things.
I think you've been given a tremendous opportunity here! Use it to it's fullest advantage!!! I'll be rooting for you.
Amy
Me 39 H 36 S 7 S 4 T 15 M 12 H out 8/1/08 OW confirmed 8/6/08 D final on 6/12/09...I'm doing good!
I'm very glad your H has agreed to MC. This could be a great opportunity!
Amy M - EXCELLENT post.
Originally Posted By: Amy M
I should warn you, though, that he may be thinking that he's going to go to counseling so you'll finally understand that he's done. I'm not saying that he really is done...he's obviously not! But, I am saying that might be his motive. My H did the same thing when our trouble started last year.
As did mine. It wasn't that my H wanted to show me he was done per se - it was more he agreed to go to MC just to appease me. I don't think he ever had any intentions of changing what needed to be changed in him.
From reading your post, I get the feeling that you sorta pushed this on your H. He didn't want an R talk, so perhaps he wanted to put a stop to it by reluctantly giving you what you wanted - an agreement to try MC.
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And, I'd be real upfront that your H was less than enthusiastic about the counseling. If they know that, they can put your H on the hook in the beginning for attending several sessions, etc. Then he's committed that to someone else...not you. He might stay with it better if that's the case.
Be VERY careful here.
If you do this, be sure to discuss this with the MC BEFORE you go in there with your H. The last thing you want to do in your session - especially your first - is to immediately put him on the spot. That would be a HUGE mistake. Why? Because it could very well make him feel pressured/attacked/etc, and if that happens, you WILL LOSE HIM. I'm referring to his participation and/or willingness to even give MC a real try.
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I see this as a huge opportunity. But, in the meantime, you might want to back off the R talk a little. You likely don't even realize that you do it (I don't realize in my sitch and NikB always points out what I should have done differently!). But, I think you might be better off scheduling the counseling; Telling him when it is; And, making that the only R talk you have between now and then.
Remember that everytime you say, "So, you really don't see a future with me?" it forces him to respond with something like, "No. Not now." Because he doesn't right now...if he did, he'd move home, and he can't do that (pride)!!! That reenforces in his mind what he's been telling himself for a while. Don't make him keep saying things like that out loud! Quit asking. When you talk about D's issues with the sitch...make sure that you focus only on D's issues and what the 2 of you can do to help her deal with things.
Amy said it all - BACK OFF WITH THE R TALKS.
Good luck.
(((CW)))
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
His replies were really insightful. I found this to be quite significant.
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Him: I am tired of working on us! I just want to get a long for a really long time and stop talking about all this sh#$! Me: How can we get along if we never spend time together? Him: I don't want to spend time with you right now Me: That hurts...I know you don't feel like you could love me like that again, but that is because you keep telling yourself that...maybe you should try telling yourself something good about me Him: I have been noticing good things about you
It just shows the confusion. How about working on spending time together without talking about r stuff - see a movie together or something. That way he knows he doesn't have to 'talk'
Hello, All! Thank you so much for all your feedback it's great!
Soooo..at the risk of sounding totally delusional I want to explain something. I had been BEGGING H to see a counselor with me while he was still in the house and he said he would NEVER go because it wouldn't do any good. In spite of his words I've been sensing a shift in H and his moods. He has always been clear that he would do NOTHING that would give me false hope and lately when we do talk I "feel" him listening more...I think some of what I say is getting through to him. At any rate, I do agree that he could be doing it just so I can move on and that is fine...time will tell.
JCJ...regarding the movie...he won't agree to go to a movie with me I think I will back off of any invites for a while and as one of you said I won't talk about the R anymore. I will save that for the counseling sessions.
Please pray I find the right counselor!!! I am so nervous!
I think that you if you sense a shift, you are probably right. I think that if we had all listened to our guts and intuition before the bomb, many of us wouldn't be in this place now...or at least I know that about myself and my own sitch :).
Would you consider joint phone counseling with a DB coach to start? I have done a few of these with my H, and even though they can be tough when you are not sure if your H is actually committed to the process or not, it's nice to know the person on the other end of the phone is pro-marriage. Another benefit, IMO, is that you can do this as a conference call so that you do not have to be in the same room while it is happening. This could make it easier for your H to open up. I know mine sure felt free to let loose!
Anyway I am very glad to hear that things are looking up. I personally see it as a positive sign. Why dwell on the fact that he could be only doing it to move on...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Soooo..at the risk of sounding totally delusional I want to explain something. I had been BEGGING H to see a counselor with me while he was still in the house and he said he would NEVER go because it wouldn't do any good.
I want to share with you that I always tried to do the same thing - I pleaded with my H for years to go to C, either IC or MC, and like your H, my H always said NO. It wasn't going to happen, EVER. Well, it did finally happen (years later and with D proceedings right around the corner), but again, I feel he only agreed to it to placate me and to slow down the D process.
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In spite of his words I've been sensing a shift in H and his moods. He has always been clear that he would do NOTHING that would give me false hope and lately when we do talk I "feel" him listening more...I think some of what I say is getting through to him. At any rate, I do agree that he could be doing it just so I can move on and that is fine...time will tell.
Yes, time will tell.
If you feel he's being more attentive to what you've been telling him, that's great. It's a baby step forward.
Now, at the risk of sounding negative, I want to give you my perspective on something here:
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Him: I am tired of working on us! I just want to get a long for a really long time and stop talking about all this sh#$! Me: How can we get along if we never spend time together? Him: I don't want to spend time with you right now Me: That hurts...I know you don't feel like you could love me like that again, but that is because you keep telling yourself that...maybe you should try telling yourself something good about me Him: I have been noticing good things about you
From your previous posts and now including this one, I think your H does genuinely want to get along, yet he also continues to tell you in one way or another that there is no R here. I know we are told in DR to believe none of what the WAS says, but even still - your H is expressing his feelings. Those feelings could very well change, but RIGHT NOW, these are his current feelings.
You guys have a history together. Many years that were filled with joy, love, and shared pain. You also have a lovely daughter, and she still needs the both of you to be the best you can be. For her and for yourselves. You two have to coparent. Therefore, for the benefit of all involved, you must get along.
Perhaps this is what your H is striving for. This could be something that he is working on with his C. It could also be another reason why he was given the exercise to work on - the one where he was to focus on the good in you.
I think your H is trying to get you to understand that he is 'done', and he would like for you to accept that. He also wants to get along for the sake of coparenting your daughter, and not only that - I am sure it's also because he does still love you. He can't just throw away everything the two of you shared together. He really does care about you and doesn't want to see you hurt anymore than you already have.
Please understand that I am NOT suggesting that you give up the good fight - I would not be in this place if I ever believed in such a thing. What I am suggesting is that you let him be and you do your best to move on 'as if' you're not going to be together any longer. I know that is so much more easier said than done, but I really think you need to try.
No more R talks - save it for your sessions. No more disagreeing with his feelings (out loud). No more pressure. I think not asking to spend time with him (i.e. going to a movie, etc) is a good start.
Time to get busy focusing on YOU and your D. The rest will follow.
(((CW)))
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
One other thing I would suggest is that when you do go to C, try to sit back and let him talk! It is too easy for most of us to jump right on the C bandwagon and start pouring it out. Then they just sit back, clam up, and won't contribute (at least my experience).
I wish I had let H lead the conversation at the sessions- we may have gotten further (also if our therapist was pro-marriage, he didn't work for us style wise either).
I woud also think that a DB joint session with a coach would be a great way to go.
Me-36 H-30 T-7yr, M-3yr DivorceBusting Saved my marriage! sep 6-08 to 12-08. Together again, things are good!
One other thing I would suggest is that when you do go to C, try to sit back and let him talk! It is too easy for most of us to jump right on the C bandwagon and start pouring it out. Then they just sit back, clam up, and won't contribute (at least my experience).
I wish I had let H lead the conversation at the sessions- we may have gotten further
YES! Please be sure to do this!
As another male DBer pointed out to me, the C knows he/she's got you there, and they already know you're willing to talk. Your H, OTOH, may not be. They are aware of this, too.
Give him plenty of opportunity to get the ball rolling whenever the C poses a question that's directed towards either one of you. When my H and I were going to MC, I turned to him after the C asked us something and gently suggested, "Why don't you go ahead first." That's really all it took for my H to open up.
Unfortunately in my sitch, the C we had did more harm than good in the four sessions we saw her. She did not help us find SOLUTIONS. She did not help us come up with a "plan" to work through our problems together. All she did was tell us what we already knew - that we were in an unhealthy M and it might be best to just call it quits. At the time, that was the last nail in the coffin my H needed.
Remember: Pro-marriage and Solution-based.
(((CW)))
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
I think I will back off of any invites for a while and as one of you said I won't talk about the R anymore. I will save that for the counseling sessions.