I believe in Miracles

[istherehope]

Ugh,

So I went from believing in miracles to feeling like I should give up.

H IMd me and asked for the dates I would be at my friend's house so he could start arranging his own accommodation etc. I said it would be nice if we could talk in person.

He kept saying "you do understand that I am not living with you and this is not negotiable."

Then he said "i think you have to come to terms that there is the possibility that our marriage may end, because if you do that, we can deal with what we have to deal with the next few months".

It was just basically dreadful. I am going to stay there next Tuesday and Thursday, and he even sort of offered, but just to save money. He says he misses things too but has closed himself off to living with me. Seriously he is so cruel. I don't know what to do. I can't imagine being alone for the holidays this year either. Last week it seemed like he was so ready to try. Today I said "I am really trying here," and he said he was too. Whatever. I see no effort only anger.

I said "and I could forget this all and move on tomorrow if you were ready to". He said "i wish i could, but I cannot guarantee anything."

Ugh I need to go take a walk now. I am not feeling happy, and am close to the giving up stage again which I know is not good...

ITH

[istherehope]

So just to journal on this again,

I can't believe I took the bait on IM. Thing is I had to say SOMETHING in response to him. Then I sent him an email with proposed dates and said this was hard for me as when we talked it seemed as though we were adversaries and I still considered him my best friend. I just can't believe how cruel he is being. For someone to tell me on IM that I need to accept that our marriage might end!!?? Isn't this just immature and disrespectful? Then he was going on about ground rules for being around each other, like no "popping by". I said that this went without saying unless our relationship changed. He did the usual "I think you are wonderful". Whatever. I'd rather he say that he thought I was a horrible person. This is just a slap in the face, and makes no sense. I am sure he feels pressured that I am trying to get him to live with me, and yes this IS what I want, but I didn't even ask for this in the IM. I just said that there might be these overlap days in the house, and that I wished he wouldn't make these decisions without having conversations in person.

I can't believe one conversation can have such a big impact on my attitude. I probably backslid a bit too, said the following:

"I understand that you feel this way. I guess what just kills me is how you can be so certain when you haven't even seen me in months, not really. I feel like you are so scared that I am going to hurt you. Please understand I am not arguing with you, only telling you where I am coming from."

Then he said we'd talk on the phone in the next few days. This is now the last thing that I want.

Also I am going to be in the house 2 nights next week, and now after I've said all of this stuff about needing to talk in person, I am afraid these days are going to be full of R talk, and not nice and positive like they should be.

OK trying to snap out of this, but am feeling pretty low again...Now I don't want to go back to Dublin.

ITH

[istherehope]

OK me again even though it shouldn't be...

I did something I shouldn't have, but I think the end result was was OK. I IMd H and said "I just really want to apologize for coming across like I wasn't listening. I'm really sorry. No further discussion needed, just hope you will accept my apology. I looked back through the conversation and I think I was being pushy, hope you will forgive me".

There were a few more comments on both sides, but he said "no, its both of us, i am sorry if i seem so hard about it". He offered to talk in person at the house on Monday, and I said that it was OK, instead we could just enjoy our time together. I said that I had just thought he was being closed to me, and in turn he probably thought I wasn't listening ,and that maybe there was some truth to both. He said "true". Anyway at the end we both agreed to just enjoy our Monday together. I am pretty nervous, but I feel a little bit better now. I hope seeing him will be a good thing. There has been such ugliness spewed over the past few weeks that it's hard to say what the day will look like...I will need to take it as an opportunity to do my BEST Dbing ever!

ITH

[JCJ]

Sounds like you made progress ITH, I'm glad.

[istherehope]

Thanks JCJ,

Feeling sort of yucky still, as every time we have those arguments, he takes them as proof that I am not listening. It's really hard for me to see past the cruel things he says, but I'm trying...

Now I need to get a plan in place for Monday. I will have about 3 hours in the afternoon, then the night as well. I don't know if ML will be on the agenda or not, but I can only hope so as it always makes things better...

ITH

[daisy282]

Hey ITH

I think it was a bit of a backslide but it seems to have ended well. At least you have it sorted out now and do not have to stress as much. What made your husband say that the marriage could be ending soon? Like what brought that up? Or did he just randomly throw that in there for "good measure"?

Will you have a chance to schedual another call with Jody before your trip? She might be able to give better insight into what happened today and what that means you should do during your time with him. Just a thought!

Hope you have a good rest of your day!

[istherehope]

Hey Daisy,

That's a great idea to schedule a call with Jody actually. I will try to do that.

In terms of why H said that the "marriage may be ending", we were arguing about me not listening, and I made a mistake and said "I am just so confused that I don't know what to do." I REALLY wish I hadn't said that. I also hate how he is trying to be all self-help these days. You should hear the phrases he uses in his IMs, like "you need time for you", or "accept everything will be fine and move on," of course interspersed with the angry outbursts.

So while it was definitely a backslide, ironically we don't seem to make progress without them. As you said each couple is different. I think DBing works slowly with H, like he has noticed changes over a longer period of time, thinks I am strong etc., but when it comes time to decision making, something moving forward (at least in the current living sitch), each time something positive has occurred, it's been after an unpleasant discussion. From this discussion, I have the 2 nights in the house, and he suggested them, not me, based on our budget. I simply said, "I am going to Valencia next week. This is not optional." I am seeing these nights in the house as positive. He may get freaked out, but I am going to avoid R talk like crazy, hang out with the pets, and make light conversation about his school, his work, and how great the house looks, hopefully there will be some sex too ;). In the conversation, to be fair, he did say that he never said we shouldn't try, and that he wanted a few more joint phone sessions. I don't like these anymore as he takes them as the time to vent, but I am willing to try one more time. He even suggested specific dates next week, but I'd rather wait until after this trip so that there may be some more positive memories! I was OK in the house once before during this process, and now I know that he misses me, even if he is often mean, so it can only be better...

I'm proud that I ended the conversation with an apology. I am not sure if I will hear from him again tonight or not. I think he is going out for dinner with coworkers, so it's unlikely. I'm stepping back now and trying to get back some of my dignity!

ITH

[daisy282]

I think it was ok. It seems to work for you guys. I just worry about your mental health when he reams against you and says visious things. I know all WAS's do this to a degree but I think you really need to be careful and guard your heart if it starts to cross over into being verbally abusive. Has he always lashed out with words? Like when you were living together and would have a fight about something would he say mean and cruel things to you then or is this a new behavior?

Just be careful honey!

[istherehope]

Hi Daisy,

In fact he was mean during arguments while we were living together too. There were times that I felt it bordered on the verbally abusive, although he never called me names or anything like that. It was a bad pattern. I wouldn't leave him alone, he'd ask for space, then say horrible things. So we were both responsible. I think I mentioned that even before we started dating he would make mean comments when his feelings were hurt.

Now I think he is incredibly hurt and those mean words really show it. The sad thing is that I know he is very close to just throwing in the towel, in a good way, and saying we should try it again, and this is why he is afraid to be around me. He said so much in his last email. Anyway I will be very careful and kind when I am at the house next week. I have been given a great opportunity here, and I will do my very best not to blow it! Good thing is that if he DOES yell of be mean or something, I will be in a position to just take the dogs for a walk and leave, unlike IM :).

ITH

[AliSuddenly]

Hi ITH,
MrsMelancoly told me that we were in a similiar sitch, I have been reading and I was amazed at the response you got from him, wow, its so great that he really revealed alot of his thinking (as alot of these guys dont do). MrsM said that Jody advised you to email him, becasue you heard he was seeing someone else, but maybe thats not the case as you dont mention an ow?

I think you are handling things brilliantly and I liked your reply to him,
Ali xxx