Also post this in newbie section. Are we a lost cause?
My story is long, but I will try and condense.
About two years ago my husband and I moved cross country for his job. We had a new house and baby. The opportunity was a great one for him. I quit my job to be a stay at home mom. The move was good, but had some stresses. We could not sell our old house, hastily bought a new one, and I was adjusting to not working, leaving family and friends. All pressures fell on my husband's shoulders and we were all alone.
We've always had a great, strong relationship. He came from broken home. Parents unreliable, with both essentially abandoning him as a child. He was a delinquent teenager, had to deal with an evil stepmom, etc. I thought he had risen above these issues.
With the added stresses we would fight more than usual. One resulted in my husband saying sometimes he can't handle the marriage and felt he did not always love me the same. He was afraid our marriage would only get worse.
I tried to make things better for him, but he began to regress. He started putting up walls, becoming introverted, hanging out more with friends and drinking.
We tried counseling. He was committed to making things work. He always expressed he didn't know why he was doing what he was doing. He was constantly confused. We established there was/is no one else and I believe all that would have come out in the wash.
After a couple months, I concluded he may be suffering from depression. After three good counseling sessions and one bad weekend, he said he was done with the marriage. He had become unreliable, selfish and increased drinking. He was hanging out with much younger coworkers and ditching his family responsibilities.
Unfortunately, I could not fathom being alone. We agreed to work on ourselves and decided I would need to move back home with our daughter. He said he needed to try and "get better." He agrees he does not want to be rash with his feelings and began individual therapy. I have asked many times in anger, etc. if he does want a divorce now, and he says he wants to go to therapy and see what happens.
So now we are nine weeks into our separation. My daughter and I are back west. He is tortured with being lonely, but continues to go out and drink. I trust him when he says he is faithful and not in that frame of mind. He says his feelings haven't changed, but he is enjoying therapy and it does seem that he is coming to some realizations. He waffles and says he sees a light at the end of the tunnel but doesn't know what it means and then says (when angry) he doesn't want to be my husband.
On top of this, my company offered me my old job back and due to an uncertain future I took it. He is actually accepting a job transfer in Albuquerque to be closer. He says if we get back together we will make it all work.
As you can see, this is a long story. There are many holes to fill. He is confused and continuously confusing me. I just need advice on how to deal with all of this. He came to visit this weekend. We all hung out and it was great. Our foundation allows us to continue a close, friendly relationship. I believe my husband cares very deeply for me. I am just not sure why he is doing this. He said he is has not fixed the issues in his head yet. He also believes sometimes he does not deserve my love. All this hurts. I feel in the end, I believe he broke our marriage, I am not sure if I want him back, and that he is destroying his life. I am not sure if this will work itself out, I try to come to the realization I need to move on, but it is so hard after nine years of being together.
Thank you for reading... if you have made it this far.
I am glad you see positives. Sometimes, I can't see that. He consistently goes back and forth with his feelings. But when we are calm, he is bright and cheerful with me. When we are angry though... I am trying to stick with the mantra of not listening to his words too much.
I am 33 and H is 32. I have read DR a few months ago, but should read it again. I am reading DB right now. I have thought about possible coaching. I am changing my approach in dealing with him. Talking about our relationship gets us nowhere.
Right now, we are focusing on his move closer and selling our house. I believe these to be good things. Just wondering how our distance will get us through this right now.
has his C agreed that it is depression? it sure seems like it, first thing a depressed person does is try to drown their sadness in alcohol. REad 'talking to depression" to have a better understanding of what he is going through". Leave R talk behind for now, no reproach, no baits, no drama. If you need to vent, vent her or with friend, he is having a hard time as it is, he will not reasure you the way you want to be reassured right now. Keep seeing C on your own to help you deal with this sitch,i hightly recommend you see a C ofte.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
My W left a couple of months ago as i was quiet and withdrawn and we wd not speak for weeks at a time. We'd been married less than a year. She felt shut out and lonely because i wdnt open up.
I imagine you maybe felt the same when trying to help your H. From my experience the more my W tried to help or understand me, the more I felt a failure and wd withdraw more. The silences wd escalate more.
I've been to conselling by myslef, read NLP books and Dr Phil, Michele books etc and have realised how I need to change - unfortunately not brought my wife back yet
I did read a good book called Why Men Walk and Women Talk that might give u a better handle on things.
Anyway - hope all goes well and don't give up hope
Your sitch sounds a little bit like mine, in terms of the way that your H is acting, and it is only now, after nearly 3 months of separation, that I am seeing real rays of hope. I'll tell you a little bit about what I've been going through, in case it is helpful to you, and share a few suggestions...
You're 33, me too. My H just turned 36. I know yours is a little bit younger, but I wouldn't completely rule out some form of midlife crisis. In my case I think that my H has some combo of light MLC and depression. Does it really matter whether your H is depressed, in MLC etc.? Maybe not, but if you look at the patterns associated with both of these issues, it might help you to feel a little more calm about the situation, and to get a better perspective on what COULD be going on with your H.
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I trust him when he says he is faithful and not in that frame of mind. He says his feelings haven't changed, but he is enjoying therapy and it does seem that he is coming to some realizations. He waffles and says he sees a light at the end of the tunnel but doesn't know what it means and then says (when angry) he doesn't want to be my husband.
This sounds exactly like my H, at least until a few days ago. My H has been extremely depressed, and seeing a therapist. He used the same terminology almost about the light at the end of the tunnel, not knowing what it meant, and not feeling like he wanted to be married any more. Hold onto your emotions for awhile, because it is possible you have not heard the worst of it yet. My H also recently said that "marriage with me was like prison". I could not make him go back to it, etc. However after all of those things had been said and I remained calm, he started to soften...
You will hear this from everyone, and it is something that I didn't believe until recently, "believe none of what they say." This is especially true of someone who is very depressed. Your H is probably seeing everything through the tinted lenses of depression, including you and the marriage.
What I didn't get from your post, so I am not sure about, is how you have been reacting to the things that your H is saying? Are you validating his anger? Are you remaining calm while he spits his venom?
It's also really typical for the WAH to feel guilty, like he doesn't deserve you or anything else. This is another reason why it is good to never show that you are upset, then he won't need to feel as guilty. It is also good to try and say things that can help build up his self esteem, whenever possible, so that he can start to feel like he is giving something back to you.
You said that you feel like he "broke your marriage." Completely understandable, especially given that you have a child. HOWEVER, if you want to make things work, you'll have to let that thought go for awhile and look at the things that you can fix about yourself. While it may very well be that 99% of the problems were his fault, there is still something that you can probably change about you, or the way that you interact with him to make improvements. Unfortunately you can't change HIM, although you can help him choose you and the marriage by making yourself as appealing as possible.
You mentioned the space as well. I am not a fan of separations to be honest, and to this day don't believe in them. This doesn't mean though that good can't come of them. I'm in Poland and my H is in Dublin, and we're both American. We are in a very weird sitch. I have seen him only once over the past 2 months, and it has been hell for me. However I believe that it has given him something that he needed, and 2 days ago for the first time he admitted to missing me. I gather that when the WAH is depressed, one of the things that happens is that emotions go sort of cold. My H said he was "dead inside" and had no idea how he felt about seeing me. He had no desire to see me or not see me, and wanted the space to miss me. It could be the same for you. I'm really sorry you're going through this, and I can only imagine how much harder this must be with a child. At the same time I think your child might help you save your M. It keeps you tied together and bonded, and WHEN your H comes out of this, he is not going to want to lose the relationship with his daughter. I think a baby is a very good reason to fight for a marriage.
I hope you can hang in there. I'd also suggest reading through some of the MLC resources on the MLC forum...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Yes, the last time I spoke with his C he believed he showed signs of depression. There were times during our hardships where he would be happy one minute, five minutes later crying, balled up on the floor, saying he let me down and messed everything up. He recently admitted he felt like he doesn't deserve my love. On occasion he would say he continuously feared I would leave him, even when things were good.
My husband and I have been married for six years, together for nine. We have lived together for most of our relationship. We were always very strong and most of our friends and family are shocked and confused.
ITH - I do believe this is a combination of depression and MLC. I am living by the mantra "don't believe what you hear." Really because his thoughts can be all over the place. If I did, I would go crazy.
I haven't always been able to remain calm during his outbursts and our arguments. I am making a serious effort right now to not talk about R. We talk about our daughter, the move and that's it. I am feeling better about it. His therapist confirmed I should also continue to tell him we miss him and love him.
We had a bad week last week, but things are turning back around. The stress the move got to the both of us and we had a blow out. We both said things we shouldn't have and he expressed he is going through some serious heartache, heart break and sadness. He says he has no one to talk with and doesn't want to burden me with his pain. He also said (in anger) that he cares for me very deeply, loves me, misses me, is dealing with the loss of our relationship, but doesn't want to be my husband right now and is not sure that will change.
I mentioned I still have some hope and he got exasperated. I said his actions and the move gives me some hope, whether I will act on it or not. He said how could the move give me hope. I question why he would think him staying in Cleveland would give me hope. Nothing he says makes sense.
He says he knows he is messed up from his childhood, likes his therapy, but hates some of the things it conjures. He feels he might be so messed up he may never have a good relationship. This makes me sad because our relationship was good for 8 1/2 years. And he knows it. He says he has no idea why he can't make it right in his head to try harder and hopes therapy will help him come to that conclusion. He apologized (and sounded frantic when doing so) that he couldn't try harder to save our marriage. He wants me to take some blame in this, and I do for our issues, but not for this heartache.
I am also working on myself. I admit that I have things I could improve and was showing him I was changing. He noticed, but was getting frustrated he couldn't change his feelings overnight.
Not sure what to think of all this. I say if he feels all this why isn't he getting a divorce. He says partly because he promised me, partly because the therapist says to wait and partly because he doesn't want to act rash (again, cause he says you never know).
Since then, he says he is fine, he is not going to do anything and sounds ok. But I know that is not the case as he is sad inside. I know he is mad for me taking my job, even though he told me to. He said he thought our time apart would be temporary and baby and I would go back. He never said that to me before.
I still believe he is faithful to our relationship and realizes another person would only complicate his already stressed out life. He is very close to his sister. She and I have been speaking throughout this. She spoke with him and confirms this from his conversation. She said he respects me and our marriage too much to do something like that. Plus he is leaving town in four weeks...
I spoke a little more with his sister last night. She filled me in on a few things they discussed.
I asked if he is OK with this big move coming up. Right now, we have only seen each other once during the 10 week separation. She said he sounds good, excited and even a little relieved. I mentioned I am getting the feeling he realizes he needs to get away from this environment.
She agreed. She said he thinks about the situation more than he lets on, does not go out as much as he lets on. She also said he thinks it will be quieter in his new town, less to do. Less distraction. In so many words he said this move will allow him the opportunity to really think about things without distractions of friends, etc. She and I both agreed that this is very positive. That he is willing into invite this into his life. I told her I don't know what to do with this information, but I feel good about it and it validates things.
I truly believe from my gut that I will be the one to make the final decision on this relationship - no matter which way it goes. I expressed this to my therapist and she also agrees with me.
What I am seeing here is he is not himself, and there is nothing I can do to control it. It his in his head, his thoughts, and it is possible that he may not be able to control it that this time. His family and I hope that removing him from his current situation will give him some space and clarity. Do you think I am on the right track?
I see a lot of positives in your situation, and to get through this, it will probably be good for you try and focus on them:
*Your H is unlikely to get an OW *Your H is not filing for D *Your H is saying reassuring things about your M to his sister *Your H is seeing a therapist *Having a child together is likely to keep him from making a rash decision *Your H says he loves and misses you *Your H is close to his sister so DOES have someone supportive to be there for him during this crisis, someone who seems to be supportive of your marriage
One thing I would suggest is not to bring up the topic of D again, not to ask him why he isn't doing this. Assuming that you DO want to work through things, the last thing that you'll want to do is make that thought bigger in his mind, or back him into a corner where he feels like it is the only option.
You are right that your H will not be himself. The common saying on the board is that they become aliens. It is SOOOOO true. Sometimes you can see the real H come through, and this makes it even more confusing and painful, but I think it really does help to pretend that you are talking to someone other than your H. The real person is in there somewhere, buried deep within, and I do believe that the good things you do during this time get stored up, and that your H WILL remember them when he starts getting back to normal.
Also definitely don't assume that your H does not think about your relationship and you constantly. As mine has started coming out of the fog (could be a relapse of course at any time!), he's let me know that he's missed me. Chances are pretty high that your H misses you a lot, and also is wracked with guilt, probably doesn't feel like he is good company or worth being around. One thing I would also say here is that mentioning hope does not usually seem to work with the depressed WAS. I did this a few times, and was really burned by it. The ONLY time that it worked was right before the fog started to lift, when he mentioned the D word, and I calmly said that if it were him in my position wouldn't he want to make sure that he had tried everything possible etc. I think that when they are SO unhappy abut everything in their lives, and we come back to them with optimism and hope, it seems to them like we don't get it, don't get their pain etc. To them it may be that we are not getting the fact that they are deciding whether in fact they even want to be married, not just whether they want to be with us.
You said that you believe in your gut that you will be the one to make the final call on the R. What is your gut telling you to do now?
For what it's worth, I have a 34 year old friend who divorced her H over an MLC last year. We just reconnected a few days ago, and she told me that she wished she'd stuck it out. They separated in October last year, and he was back to normal by March. By then, she was already too deep in the D process, and felt like she couldn't back out. She said they had always been really good friends, and she, as a recovering control freak, wished that she'd trusted that life would work out with him. Her advice to me was to deal with being uncomfortable for as long as possible before making any final decisions...
Anyway I don't mean to ramble on. I just really do see a lot of positives here. I'd really recommend talking to a DB coach at least once if at all possible to see whether maybe there are some strategies that you could start putting to use, if you do want to make things work.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Thanks ITH. Sometimes it is hard to see the positives, but you are not the only person to put my situation in that perspective.
I don't plan on mentioning the D word again. I see that it only does put him in a corner. I feel like he would have done it by now. Since we live far apart right now, we have both agreed to legally document our separation to protect us both. He has said a few times, if he just wanted to get a D he would and save the money of the legal separation. He even mentioned this referring to a friend who is in a similar situation.
I don't want to do anything right now. My gut says to maintain the status quo. Sometimes I fear he will call up and finally say he wants a D, but I truly believe he won't do it. He seems OK with how things are right now. We have too much going on to even worry about that.
I do sometimes see glimpses of the man I married. But most of the time, I don't. What you say makes great sense and lines up with how my husband acts. I guess I wonder if he will ever emerge from this.
I have backed off and he is starting to reach out in different ways. He is showing he is thinking of us, and I am subtly trying to do the same.
I am a friend on his facebook. He went to a wedding away this weekend with a bunch of coworkers. I feel these people inadvertently helped to contribute to his feelings. I saw some photos from the wedding. In two photos he was dancing closely and provocatively with one I know he was close with. He must have been really drunk cause that is the only time he dances. I believe it is nothing, but I don't know what to make of it all. There are also many joint friends of mine and coworkers of his at the wedding, it would have looked bad if he was being inappropriate. The thing is, I know he was online writing things on myspace and facebook for a couple hours after the wedding. Sounds pretty innocent.
I spoke with his sister tonight. She feels I need to live life as I am moving on. She does believe with his history he doesn't believe he can fix what was "wrong" with our marriage. He thinks its bad and time to get out. He never saw marriage as successful and thinks ours also can't survive. The thing is, it wasn't that bad. His therapist attributes all this to his abandonment issues. She believes there is nothing I could have done to change it and it is not my fault. She thinks he would want to fix things if he could. She gently urges me to move on, but she still has hope for us. He even tells her, you never know we could get back together even if we divorced.
