Thanks all for stopping by with many good thoughts...
LL, Bob, PnT, & Jethro, I didn't mean to seem like I'm still hung up on reading her journal. Once, I saw where see was going with it, I don't want to read it anymore. In fact I haven't read it since June and it probably been made easier not to, because I don't believe she is continuing to journal as it was slowly getting buried under a pile of books and papers. In the past, if she stopped journalling it basically mean she believed things were getting better. This time I believe it means she was using the journal to sort out her thoughts and come up with a plan of action. The first step of that plan is the letter she wrote to D23. Mind you we were sitting side by side in bed that evening watching TV, when she picked up a pad from her nightstand and started writing, knowing I can glance over and see. Lets face it!!! There's no way, I can sit just inches away and not glance over and of course, for what I gleened I didn't get a very good feeling about it, so I did read it after she fell asleep. I don't know if she sent it. She did send a care package a week later, then came the phone call about D23 wanting to move back, so yea, I'm sitting here putting 1+1+1 together...the damage has already been done tho, my head doesn't agree with my gut anymore. I want to keep dancing hoping she will join me, but then my head start saying, "She's gonna to trip you before exiting the dance floor for good."
Yea, jethro, she is a big conflict avoider and so am I to a certain degree. In the past, this led to a lot of anger and fights. Once, something reached a certain level I felt I could no longer avoid, I would always be the first to bring it up and she would still not want to talk about it so, I would keep pursuing it until both of us got angry and then she would open with hostility. Very bad cycle!! I haven't been consistantly successful in getting her to want to open up rather then continuing to seek avoidance, so I have been letting a lot more go. That said, I also feel since our last talk in May, when she finished it with the comment, "I can't fight this anymore." I get the sense, she is trying to subtly provoke me into starting an OR talk for the purpose of her own personal agenda and right now, I don't want to give her that out. If she has something to say to me, she's gonna have to say it! Its also a 180 for me not to be first in the first to start OR talk. (May sound like a copout, but since I started DBing last year, our OR talks do work out better when I had let her initate them. The ones I've started don't always get a good outcome for either of us.).
One the other hand, if she is perhaps deciding to stay in M, then I can see her wanting to keep quiet about all this. For if she thinks I don't know about her second doubts, it will be easier to move on and forget about this episode as if it never happened.
For now, I do feel in my gut that it is not the right time for me to bring up an OR talk, but do sense that if she doesn't bring up one in the not to distant future, then I will need to.
Shiny, When W was admitted into hospital, the only term thrown around was "manic depressive". Its now becoming increasingly tough to continue seeking medical treatment as she feels that doctors can no longer help her. Some of what you mentioned strikes some chords. I'm gonna have to read up some more about it, but it getting tougher to sell any new possible diagnose to look into. Even with reading books and such, she's fallen into this Catch-22 of when she's down, she feels adamant nothing can help her and when she feels good, then there's no need to seek help. This created a BIG complication involving OM. Whenever, she was with OM, she was in a state of euphoria, hence the solution to her problems!! I believe at some level she still believes that!
RJD, thanks for stopping by. I know you were having a rough go of it earlier this week. I'm sorry I haven't come by much this week, in fact, I feel a little selfish lately spending much of time on the bb of late posting to my own thread. Will try keep quiet now and try to catch up on everyone else in next few days...
Quote: For now, I do feel in my gut that it is not the right time for me to bring up an OR talk, but do sense that if she doesn't bring up one in the not to distant future, then I will need to.
ok KAW,
so if your mind didn't read the words she wrote in her journal or in that letter would your gut be telling you that if she doesn't say something soon you'll need to?
just curious as it seems to me that you are basing alot on what is written in the journal or in that letter instead of what is actually going on.
does her journal (and the letter) fall into that category of believe none of what you hear and half of what you see??
LL, In moments, like last night after going to the fair, and then dropping D9 off to stay the night at a friends house, and I try to get closer to her by gazing into her eyes as we sat quietly together, she gave me a quick glance then, redirected her look as to avoid looking back at me. Not all that long ago, my gaze would be returned with a warm, loving look back. Now, its cold and am told to stop after she turns away.
AH, so my first hunch was mentioned by the MDs...bipolar is the same thing as Manic Depression. But was she ever accurately Diagnosed? Was she on Lithium at all?
Yes, if her hypomanic states (euphoria etc) corresponded with being with OM, that IS tough to fight. She's probably unwilling to see that such an upswing is temporary, and she'd eventually swing back down, perhaps even FURTHER (since he sounds like a jerk) in no time.
Something's still niggling me about the BPD possibility too, though. It's quite common for folks with BPD to engage in "splitting", that is, they tend to see people and situations as "all good" or "all bad". They tend to admire people, put them on a pedestal at first...but if they are "let down" in any way, that person crashes to the floor in their estimation....
For example: The therapist who at first seems like a "saviour" might mention something that doesn't jive with the BPD's POV or is critical, and suddenly they are a "Quack!"...BPD sufferers are also likely to sabotage themselves at critical life junctures...like dropping out of therapy or stopping meds just when they might be working, switching majors, jobs, religions, friends etc.
Not sure at all, KAW, just throwing stuff out there.
Just stopping in to say "hello". Sounds like you get a lot of good advice and thoughts to mull over. I have no such wisdom, but appreciate your suggestions on my thread. Hope things are going better for you.
Quote: I get the sense, she is trying to subtly provoke me into starting an OR talk for the purpose of her own personal agenda and right now, I don't want to give her that out.
KAW, is she provoking you or reaching out to you? Thing is, her agenda, whatever that may be, is going to come out sooner or later, my friend.
Quote: If she has something to say to me, she's gonna have to say it! Its also a 180 for me not to be first in the first to start OR talk. (May sound like a copout, but since I started DBing last year, our OR talks do work out better when I had let her initate them. The ones I've started don't always get a good outcome for either of us.).
I understand how you feel about not wanting to start and it being a 180; however, you've had a year to show her this 180, and I'm sure she sees your changes. I can't imagine that you NEVER starting an OR talk is healthy for your M. But, are you starting it if she continues to drop hints? Remember, as you've reminded me, it's ONLY about "what works," not whether we did a 180 six months ago only to find that we now have to reverse that 180.
KAW..just wanted to let you know that you are on my mind...you are challenged so by your w illness or disorder that she is dealing with. I do know the feeling of not wanting to start a r talk...like your w, my h is not the one who usually talks, and I end up frustrated..I know it sounds to others like a copout..but our s are adults too..and the other half to the m..
As hard as it is..reading the journal is putting her thoughts, whether real or not, into your mind..and of course your gut is going to react to those..it boggles my mind why she leaves it out in plain sight...
All you can do is wait and see..patience...understanding..all of which you have had an abundance of.
KAW Thank you for the wisdom. Next time add in a little whack with the 2 x 4 and MAYBE it will sink in
Seriously, I am so torn between wanting H to just get on with it, whatever it might be, and hanging in there for a LITTLE while longer. Maybe I need to read DR and DB again.
Today was just a teary-eyed blur, except for when I spoke to H. That I remember. And yes, he was coming over anyway and I didn't cut him any slack on the phone. I admitted that I should have reacted differently and the results would have been different. H agreed.
KAW, you have difficult circumstances to deal with in your R. I really do not know what to say, except that I hope things go well for you and W.
Lets face it!!! There's no way, I can sit just inches away and not glance over and of course, for what I gleened I didn't get a very good feeling about it, so I did read it after she fell asleep. I don't know if she sent it. She did send a care package a week later, then came the phone call about D23 wanting to move back, so yea, I'm sitting here putting 1+1+1 together...the damage has already been done tho, my head doesn't agree with my gut anymore. I want to keep dancing hoping she will join me, but then my head start saying, "She's gonna to trip you before exiting the dance floor for good." 
