KAW, my man...I feel like I've just been on a long journey with you...HOW can it possibly be that I have not read YOUR thread before now??? ...But I just caught up with ALL of them!
True, I mainly read your posts, but HOLY COW, bro, what a ride you're on.
First, although this may well have been mentioned by others, your W sounds to me like she may be bi-polar...was this ever checked out?
She almost sounds like a rapid-cycling manic-depressive with Seasonal Affective tendencies. Oh, yeah, I teach Psychology.
I'd be quite surpised if, given all the "help" she's had in the past, no one checked for this, but if it's true...
She may be a type II bipolar with mostly depression and alternating "hypomanic" (not full-blown...but the "chatter box" image you've painted fits well) episodes. I may be way off base here, but if this IS a possibility, her meds might be wrong. Some antidepressants can spur manic episodes, like the "jitters" she had when quitting her new meds last spring. BTW, it takes longer than 3 days to adjust to new meds, both CJ and I had lingering symptoms for a bit.
KAW, another thought came to mind when you posted (a LONG time ago) that your W said that OM treated her like sh!t, but she still wanted him.
As bizarre and unhealthy as this sounds, many seriously depressed people (especially if it's chronic) actually PREFER to be treated badly!!! ...or perhaps more accurately, they implicitly believe as "more true" cruel words, and the company of people who confirm their own low opinion of themselves! Of course this leads nowhere good...but it can explain some perplexing things.
Perhaps your continued vigilence (my hat is waay off to you) and patience at times irritates her as it is not consistent with how she feels she "deserves" to be treated.
Well, now I have a new thread to check when I do my rounds.
I may not have been HERE before tonight, but your posts all around have inspired me many, many times.
OK, let me see if I can recreate what I attempt to post before...
Quoting jethro: What were the circumstances for each day that made you feel the way you did?
As I chronicled in my previous thread, I have felt my W pull steadily away since March. In mid-May, when she announce, "She can't fight "it" anymore.", she completely detacted emotionally and physically and hadn't initiated any such connections since, until a couple of weeks ago, when I mentioned she's started tapping me on the shoulder and asking for a dance every now and again. By that, I meant she started initiating emotional connections again. Taking my hand here, giving me a kiss there...
Plus all that time, I continue helping out with whatever chore she was doing when I am home. However, I wasn't getting any assistance in whatever tasks I took on. [ie, while I would do yard work, she would stay inside and read a book. She hasn't once helped me clean my truck, but did ask if I would wash her Jeep for her.] Lately, she has been getting more involved, like when I mowed the lawn last time, she weeded the garden.
However, last Wednesday, I could feel her pull away again and she didn't tap me on the shoulder that day. Thursday, she was in a foul mood and no interest in talking to me or beinging around me at all and is what I meant by she left the dance floor.
Quoting jethro: I'm a little unclear. In the letter your W wrote, did she actually talk about OM, or did she just say she wanted her D to come back because she's the only one with whom she can talk? Also, just out of curiosity, what is the reason her D wants to move back in 6 months?
Last fall, when everything seemed great in "Oz", D23 moved out and head to Pittsburgh to live with her father & brother. In W's journal, when she expressed she felt like she needed to leave M again, she made mention of how she wished D23 would come back. In her last entry, as she was writing how she wished to spend more time with OM, she added maybe she could go visit D23 for a weekend and bring OM with her. As I mentioned before, I began to sense the journaling was a way to help sort out her feelings so she can make come up with a plan. Two weeks later is when she wrote the letter. My take on this is she has now made her decisions and now is taking steps move forward with her plan. In the letter, she expressed if she can get the money together she would like to come for a visit and maybe she might be bringing a "guest". She also wrote call me during the day to talk, so KAW won't be around ... so when she told me of D23's plans to come back to the area in six months, my thoughts went directly to "So they now worked out a plan together and this is the next step."
Quoting jethro: Although I understand why you are concerned about this 6-9 month window, I simply want to caution you against jumping to conclusions ... We all know what a dead-end that can lead to.
That's my point J, I know this is all conjecture on my part, and normally, I am able to dismiss these thoughts quickly, but this time I having a real difficult time letting them go.
Quoting jethro: How have your W's panic attacks been lately? Isn't there a pattern between her panic attacks getting more severe as she begins to think/journal more about OM?
I thought it might be possible ... then I thought the connection might be when she tries to muster up the nerve to tell me its over ... recently, she told me she believes it related to her monthly cycle, however, she has a couple of them every week, but there are times when they tend to be more frequent. Guess what's coming up? ... and she's starting with little tremors, like before the big one strikes. She did see her doctor last week and he prescribed Xanax (sp?), but she's afraid to take it. He also suggested she see her OBGYN.
Quoting jethro: Honestly, it seems to me that if your W was furthering her plans about moving on, the following would NOT be happening: "Slowly, but steadily OR seems to be improving as W gradually seems to be softening."
Thing is, your trust continues to get undermined as you continue to read her journal ... Do you think you'd be interpreting her actions in the same way? Instinctively, how do you feel, KAW? Do you feel like she's coming around or do you feel like things from a year ago are resurfacing big-time? What's your gut?
That's really the crux of my trouble now! I can't help but compare her actions of the last couple of months to that of the first half of last year and what I read in her journal just re-enforces that! I know in my gut I still feel there's a good chance she might come around, but I've repeated this cycle once too many times and now my head is in permanent self-protection mode saying I can be going thru this all over again in another 6-9 months and will not allow me to go with my gut.
This is why on your thread, I said I don't know if I will ever be convince that my W will ever really love me again ... and to talitsa & shiny(I bet you gals thought I forgot about ya), I'm game to list the small ways my W may now be showing me signs of love, but it doesn't change that I figuratively picture my W picking the pedals of a daisy over the past two years, chanting, "I love him, I love him not..." and I don't see the end in sight yet ... at least for the next year or so. ... and I just don't know how much longer I can go on like this?
Another words, for the last two weeks, my W has been steadily doing some 180's to show me she is trying to reconnect emotionally and physically again, but now I feel I can't trust that they are real or more importantly ... that they will last! ... talk about DBing irony!!!
Wow, I think I got all I wrote in the original post.
Will be having a good time tomorrow spending the day with family at the fair. Hope all of you have a good day too.
Yea, there's a few (including you) where we seem to cross paths alot on the bb, but I haven't really kept up with their sitches and for that I do apoligize. I wish I could follow more than I do.
You have certainly given me lots to think about and more research to do so I can get the gist behind all that you mentioned...
I will have to print your post so I can do some more follow up.
Thanks Shiny for taking the time to read all that you did in order to give your POV on the overall picture.
I really don't like what's going on here. I don't know whether to believe what w is writing in her journal or assume that it is just a place where just writes down her secret thoughts or fantasies.
since it seems that what she writes is not helping you to feel good and is in fact taking away from what is going well can I again suggest that you don't read it.
I understand your desire to read it, to keep prepared for what may happen but in the end will knowing what may happen get you anywhere closer to your goals or might the knowledge in fact keep you from reaching your goal.
already a protective wall exhists for you toward your w...it would seem to me that the more you read her journal the higher that wall is going to grow...is knowing really going to protect you from anything?
my only suggestion would be to stop reading the journal and simply let the days pass as they will...bd for you...enjoy the times that w does stay on the dance floor and keep busy with good kaw time when she does not.
I think that LL has hit the nail on the head again. You already know that W still is entertaining notions of fleeing - there is precious little that you can do to prevent that from happening if she puts her mind to it.
My W also keeps notes on a large block calendar that she has in her nightstand. I made the choice when I started reading DB and the bulletin board that I would not snoop - and have not regretted it for a moment.
Quote from LL:
Quote: my only suggestion would be to stop reading the journal and simply let the days pass as they will...bd for you...enjoy the times that w does stay on the dance floor and keep busy with good kaw time when she does not.
I have to agree with LL on the journal thing. I would often use my journal to write down how much I hated my husband or wanted out, after a fight. Then after venting, I'd be calm enough to approach him and apologize.
I also wanted to say thank you. I thought about you at a key moment last night when on the phone with my husband. You helped me to do the right thing!
Dang it, my friend. After re-reading my last post to you, I realized how many questions I had. Sorry...
Admittedly, the letter and general communication with your W's D sounds suspicious. In my last post I wrote a few things (which I ended up deleting 'cuz I wanted more info.) that I'm going to revisit now.
KAW, you know my stance on communication. When our Ses are in WA-mode, it's best to keep certain (if not most) things at bay; however, when we're in Piecing, certain things can fester if they are not discussed. I understand how your W doesn't like to talk about certain things, but it also seems like you'd rather avoid some of these discussions as well because of what you'll find out. Doesn't it, at this point, seem best to just lay everything out on table? What do you honestly have to lose? If your W is thinking about bolting, then you'll know now and can do something about it. If your W is NOT considering bolting, then your fears will be eased.
Thing is, there is a quagmire of misdeceptions going on here: - You SECRETLY read her journal. - You find out about her SECRETS. - Now you each have secrets that are not being discussed.
Because you've read about her "thoughts" you analyze her behavior based around what you've read in her journal and likely overlook other reasons. Like LL said, this builds further distrust and the wall continues to rise. She's not talking, you're not talking, you're making assumptions, etc. It's a vicious cycle that's going to (and frankly, is) drive you nuts. What's your tolerance threshold?
Perhaps it's time to talk to her, KAW...and I mean really TALK...
Would you believe things I wanted to say to you kept circling in my mind last night after I signed off?
Putting my "psychologist" hat on again here: Have any of your W's mental health pros, or docs mentioned the possibility of something called "Borderline Personality Disorder"????
This is a more chronic condition, usually evident by the teens. It's marked by unstable relationships, wild mood swings (moment to moment, daily etc), anger problems, intense fears of abandonment and being alone, inability to self-sooth, transient psychotic features (like delusions/fantasies), unstable sense of self, self harm (usually in the form of cutting or burning), suicidal thoughts or attempts (usually as a cry for help), impulse control problems (sex, shopping, gambling etc).
Episodes of depression and anxiety can complicate this picture too.
Just a thought...does any of this sound familiar? I've heard it described that people with BPD feel their emotions so intensely and are so in the moment, that they can't even imagine feeling any other way. When they are "Up" everything is great...when they are "down" they can't imagine the pain ever going away.
I think the title of a popular book on the subject says it all, it's called "I HATE you!...Don't LEAVE me!!!"
I bring this up because your W's behaviours baffle me, frankly, and I think finding out just WHAT is wrong with her physically, mentally, would be a HUGE step in the right direction.
I whole-heartedly agree with you that making life decisions in the frame of mind she's usually in is not wise!
About the Xanax...I'm on that one too. It is a great drug for anxiety and panic attacks. If she's wary, suggest she start with half a pill, that's what I did. At first it made me feel a little spacey, but it SURE took the edge off of the anxiety.
Here's something else to note...IF her symptoms get WORSE with the Xanax...that's another clue that it may be BPD she's dealing with. (for some reason BPD responds much better to another cocktail of meds...including anti-seizure medication!)
About this journal. KAW, I can think of no other reason your W leaves it around but that she wants (even unconsciously) for you to read it. Is it healthy??? Probably not. For either of you!
But quite honestly, if I could have had such a glimpse at my H's private thoughts I'd probably still jump all over it. Proabably a good thing I don't.
I can't imagine the confusion and craziness of each day for you. I'm definitely inspired by you...MANY people would have given up on her by now.
Shiny
P.S. lots of great info about bi-polar and BPD on-line
KAW, All you can do right now is focus on what you might be doing that makes it easier for your W to move closer(tap you on the shoulder for dances..help with yard work etc...).
If there's even one tiny thing you can pull out that you might do differently that seems to make her do those things try to milk it for all its worth.
On the other hand, you might be doing everything just fine, and everything the same. In that case it's just a matter of time. As you know by now, change happens with both forward steps and backward steps..so when things seem to be headed backwards again, don't fret. Keep doing what you're doing and be positive and they will move forward once again.
A dream it's true
But I'd see it through
If I could be
Wasting my time with you
-Band:Phish Song:Waste
Kaw, rj gave some great advice, keep doing the positive things, things that work. When you keep doing these things and they step back, it may be that they are re-evaluating you and the sitch. Your positive actions toward them confuses them about there descions.
...But I just caught up with ALL of them! 
