Gosh NDS, I got a little dizzy reading that last post.
Can I try to sum up what I THINK you are saying? Then you can set me straight if I'm off the mark.
1. I'm not concerned that I will not survive if our relationship ends. 2. It does make me sad to think of our relationship ending. 3. I'm still thinking that it might be possible that I did too much damage for her to be willing to continue the marriage. 4. I HAVE changed, but I'm still not sure that she believes it will last. I wonder how long it will take her to believe, and if she will choose to end the relationship before she ever DOES start believing. 5. If she does choose to end the marriage, it will hurt and I will be terribly saddened, but I also will survive. I will be grateful that I can live the rest of my life knowing that I finally got it right.
Close to right?
Yes, that about sums it up. I was feeling a little "crazy" yesterday for no good reason, so I guess things were coming out a little crazy?
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If you KNEW beyond any doubt that it would take 9 more months of your current life together to get her to believe and finally announce that she has changed her mind, are you saying that would be too long? Or are you just expressing your frustration that you've been doing so well for the past 6 months and she's not offering the WORDS that let you off the hook?
Like I have said, more frustration than anything else. Of course I want to be let off the hook and work together with her on rebuilding. You guys say we ARE rebuilding, and maybe I am, but I do not get that from her...words or actions. Rebuilding to me would mean her working WITH me towards common goals, be they financial, relationship, whatever. Maybe that is my fault to some extent because I set the precedent for all the fun and party times, but if she were truly looking at the future with both of us in mind, wouldn't I see some sign of her trying to meet some of the goals we used to talk about before the bomb? Wouldn't she WANT to sit and talk about what each of us should expect for the future if rebuilding were even remotely on her mind? Or are these small signs her slowly reaching the point where she may want to open up about rebuilding?
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If you truly KNOW that you will survive and still manage to live a good life EVEN IF she chooses to end the marriage, why all the drama about where things stand now?
I love her and would like to have her in my life. I know detachment should mean not having all this drama, so I guess I am not where I need to be.
You are saying that by thinking I will be OK without her, I can't be hurt and sad (afraid) at the thought of losing her and not having her in my life? Those 2 feelings are mutually exclusive? If I was detached I would not have the drama?
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Your wife is SHOWING you, in so many different ways, that she loves you and is moved by your changes.
In the past couple of weeks you have shared numerous incidents where there is such a clear softening in her towards you. She really is showing you that she is beginning to believe in the new NDS.
You're waiting for the words.
And they are likely to be the last part to come.
Yes, and I suppose as there is more softening I will become more impatient. You know how close she has been since the camping trip..she went out for dinner with a friend last night and was home at 8, and she is going out with the girls tonight. There has not been much more the last few weeks...always around and we are always together.
I get used to it and think she is moving towards me and get to the point of expecting something to happen...and disappoint myself.....expectations....bad.
Have to finish up her at work. She will be out tonight so maybe I will get back on later and just update the last couple of days..things are OK...just feeling a little crazy I guess. Actually looking forward to an evening home alone.
You were a little late posting today.. did you get paralyzed by my analysis?
Or where you overwhelmed that I beat Bill.. and had something useful to say?
I gotta say.. Thanks Ndsmhelp. You have really shown your true colors with me poking fun at you. I have enjoyed our little chats a lot. I appreciate that you "see" the tone of the post's from me. That means a lot to me personally.. that at least you are getting something from it.
" I want her in my life.....and no matter how close she is, it is still the frustration of the unknown that gets to me the most....impatience again."
I like that sentence alot. I just want to point out that if you really look at what you wrote.. it almost sounds.. "overwhelming". Think about it like this.. Cool, Brisk day in March and you are standing on a dock near a river.. you take your shoes and socks off.. and stick your feet in. Refreshing! Then you decide to jump in. Now your clothes are all wet.. and you realize.. the water was really cold. Now you are just uncomfortable. What was refreshing became uncomfortable.. simply because you got too close.
Someone who wants to be close to you all the time.. can become oppressive. Or controlling.
"I have stopped the bad times and treat her right each day. Does that make up for what I have done in her mind?"
Maybe not. At the same time she has not "kicked you out". To everyone looking in.. you have won. DB'd it. To me.. you are still floundering around a bit.. and it makes the situation a little "iffy". To put it more bluntly.. I think until you have things.. your way.. we may keep seeing you posting. Understand and accept.. things will never be 100% your way. You gotta find the middle ground.
"I still have not given her the life she deserves, but would like to...more frustration...more unknown. I can give her glimpses and hints, but WE cannot plan a future together...unless she tells me SHE is planning a future TOGETHER. Most times the comments and innuendos tell me just the opposite of what you guys say her actions are telling me."
Well the option's become.. wait for her to say it.. or make it happen. You pretty much just said.. SHE is holding YOU back. You are living to make someone else happy.. that.. is not gonna work. Be happy.. and hope that "someone" wants to share it with you.
"She would not have put up with me for 20 years, or the last 6 months, if she did not see some good right? Is it enough? Will she ever forget, or forgive me for the bad."
Forgiveness.. is a gift you give yourself. She will likely never forget.. hopefully you don't either. It's OK to remember where you came from.. its not OK to go back to where you were.
"I am happy while we are dancing..it is the silence between the songs that gets to me. That is when I fear the "what if"."
I understand. If she asks you to dance again.. in all likelihood.. she did not see your "uncomfortableness" or she thought it was cute.
"Very long list. How much time do you have?"
A long time. But to be honest.. I don't want to see the list. I want to see you Doing Work!
"So, I guess I can't, right? I have to show her each day I am with her by my actions and words?"
Any questions?
"Who are these people? Are you guys talking about me behind my back?"
Its amazing.. what people can "see" when it is not them doing it.
Now...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
You were a little late posting today.. did you get paralyzed by my analysis?
Or where you overwhelmed that I beat Bill.. and had something useful to say?
I gotta say.. Thanks Ndsmhelp. You have really shown your true colors with me poking fun at you. I have enjoyed our little chats a lot. I appreciate that you "see" the tone of the post's from me. That means a lot to me personally.. that at least you are getting something from it.
Sometimes I have to read your posts over once....or ten times, but yes...I get it. The sarcasm....my wife told me long ago that I turned D into a sarcastic little sh**...thought I was the king, but you got it, FG.
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Any questions?
Not really, but.....
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At the same time she has not "kicked you out". To everyone looking in.. you have won. DB'd it. To me.. you are still floundering around a bit.. and it makes the situation a little "iffy". To put it more bluntly.. I think until you have things.. your way.. we may keep seeing you posting. Understand and accept.. things will never be 100% your way. You gotta find the middle ground.
Until she gives me the "words" am I not still DBing? I understand what you are saying, and the last few posts from Bill, Steady, Phoenix...assume it is busted...act as if, maybe, but you are probably right. I am going to flounder a bit until I am certain and the only way I will be truly certain is to HEAR it, not see it. I am still under the assumption that this could all go the opposite way tomorrow.
But...I get it..maybe a little more clearly because of her recent actions....she sees it...I don' think I ever really believed that...she can tell the difference between me trying to make her happy, and me being happy on my own.
OK...I am missing the debate. I still want to journal a little so maybe I will come back.
First off, I don't GET to do that. It's YOUR sitch.
Secondly, while I think things are going VERY well, I would never suggest you adopt the mindset that all is well.
I hope you understand this.
When I said I thought you were clearly rebuilding a marriage rather than busting a divorce, I was asking you to change your focus.
Not that this is in any way a game, but sometimes you play like a loser. You play like there's no chance.
I would just like to see you adopt more of a "almost there, I know it's going to happen" kind of attitude. Seems to me that kind of attitude would make a difference in your sitch.
Sorry for making you think I had declared your divorce busted.
Never intended to suggest that.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
First off, I don't GET to do that. It's YOUR sitch.
Secondly, while I think things are going VERY well, I would never suggest you adopt the mindset that all is well.
I hope you understand this.
When I said I thought you were clearly rebuilding a marriage rather than busting a divorce, I was asking you to change your focus.
Not that this is in any way a game, but sometimes you play like a loser. You play like there's no chance.
I would just like to see you adopt more of a "almost there, I know it's going to happen" kind of attitude. Seems to me that kind of attitude would make a difference in your sitch.
Sorry for making you think I had declared your divorce busted.
Never intended to suggest that.
Bill
No worries, Bill...I understand, and I also understand that some may read my posts and wonder what I am even doing here, but I know you all get it. I know I can't just assume all is well. It has to be an attitude and a focus change to progress past what we have now.
Last night I got a little reminder that I still have work to do on myself, regardless of how well I think I may be doing.
Long story short....she was out with the girls and her plan to not drink and drive herself home did not quite work out.
Without going into all the details of the evening, let's just say insecure, controlling guy made a surprise visit to the tavern to make sure she got home safe. A buddy of mine was there and was going to drive her home, but that was not good enough for me, and actually peaked my insecurity even more, so I drove out to see what was happening.
Was she pissed? Did I get the "what the f*** are you doing here, checking up on me?"....when she saw me her face lit up and she smiled from ear to ear...glad to see me.
I told her I just wanted to make sure she got home safe, and apologized if she thought I was checking on her.
She told me the thought never crossed her mind and she was glad I came to get her. She apologized for not being more responsible.
My buddy was doing a good deed, and although crazy thoughts ran through my mind and I probably made him feel uncomfortable, I consider him my oldest and dearest friend....just crazy thoughts.
He drove my wife's car home and she came with me. She told me all about her night with the girls and apologized again for causing a fuss and not being able to drive home.
We dropped the car off and drove my friend home. Back at the house she was warm and affectionate...we chatted, kissed, hugged and went to bed....made plans to have a nice quiet evening at home tonight and go to a local beer and wine festival on Sunday.
This afternoon she sent me a text to ask if I wanted her to make chicken wings for tonight, or wait for the game Sunday night.
"Last night I got a little reminder that I still have work to do on myself, regardless of how well I think I may be doing."
You gotta stop saying it.. and put some action into it.
Just a little rant on my part.. but it can get frustrating when you keep telling someone "what to do". They repeat it back.. maybe even agree.. and then almost "disregard" it. I have seen and written exactly what "someone" should do as well as "others" here (DB.com).. only to to see it fall on "deaf" ears. I understand.. that I have been in that situation too.. where I was not listening. But from that (past experience) I gotta say.. If you have "some people" (posters) following a common theme.. you owe it to yourself to explore that thought. DB'ing is about being "Smart".. not emotional.. making choices that effect the "long run" and not the "here and now".
I think this is a part of where "This is a walk of you" comes from.
/Rant off
In a M DB'ing never stops. Even if you do "Bust" your situation.. never stop DB'ing. Just as the bad stuff compounded on itself.. so will the DB'ing.
"Was she pissed? Did I get the "what the f*** are you doing here, checking up on me?"....when she saw me her face lit up and she smiled from ear to ear...glad to see me.
I told her I just wanted to make sure she got home safe, and apologized if she thought I was checking on her.
She told me the thought never crossed her mind and she was glad I came to get her. She apologized for not being more responsible."
Nothing wrong with that. Lots of good things.
"This afternoon she sent me a text to ask if I wanted her to make chicken wings for tonight, or wait for the game Sunday night."
Did you pick up the phone and call her with your decision?
And thank her for "thinking of you"?
I don't know.. I am seeing some signs of an Advanced DAM.
Time will tell...
I am not ready to Knight you quite yet.
Lucky Cricket!
I am gonna give you some props.. on the whole "showing up at the bar".. that was you "seeing" the issue.. and facing it.. and letting her tell you what she "saw".
That was the first time I saw you...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I agree 100% that you never stop DB'ing...because to do so would mean your MB'ing (marriage breaking)...the changes you make (should always be for yourself) should be maintained, GAL should always be maintained...it is healthy to have a life and be happy with yourself...it takes the pressure of the other person...where it shouldn't be in the first place.
Does W have a cell phone?...Maybe in the future it would be better to arrange to call her at a certain time when she is out and possible drinking to verify if she has obtained a safe ride home or if she would like you to drive her...if she doesn't answer as can happen in a noisy environment then a personal visit would be in place...I would avoid bringing up "that you are not checking up on her" because that puts the thought out there and just because she took it good this time another time she might feel differently...like you don't trust her, view her as irresponsible, almost being parent like to her instead of being her H...I totally understand your concern and it is totally valid...but keep the thoughts and excuses for your actions to yourself...and work out ways to give her the opportunity to request your assistance...
My marriage has been saved...it is very important that I constantly maintain the positive changes that I have worked hard on for myself...it is vital that I keep GAL...it is vital that I can trust my H...allow him is GAL...allow him is personal time... communication is also very critical...I also believe there is a time and a place to discuss how you might be feeling about certain issues...if there are concerns that are creeping back in...find out how my spouse is feeling...how he is viewing me...is feeling safe with me...feeling in love with me...has any constructive critism that would help us to keep advancing as a couple...and vice versa...we keep things non-threatening, not accusing, and in a positive light with the intent of bettering ourselves personally and as a couple...
We make time for each other to have our "alone time"...we might go to a movie, to dinner, a concert, or to the beach...we make time to spend in our own interests, and we make time to spend as a family...this is working wonderfully for us...there is always room for improvement but I think we are at a place where maintaining is a good thing...
If you find my archived posts you will see what a mess things were with us...it is now 4 years post-bomb...7 years post-MLC beginning...I think I can safely say that he is now through the MLC and back to his normal self with some good improvements...
It is a long road...whether it is smooth or bumpy really depends upon how you choose to navigate the road...avoiding pot holes, dips, and bumps along the way...you can make jerky drastic moves that throws everyone around in the car...or you look just far enough ahead to gradually make the adjustments to that the ride is much smoother...same road, same obsticles, different feeling in the journey...depending on how you steer the vehicle!
Sounds like things are going well...and I think it is always best at this point to really start looking forward with positve thoughts...this creates positive actions and outlooks and it pick-up on by our mate...making things more positive for them...
"Last night I got a little reminder that I still have work to do on myself, regardless of how well I think I may be doing."
You gotta stop saying it.. and put some action into it.
Can I blame it on her? There are so many times when she seems so emotionally attached to me, that it still scares me to emotionally detach from her. Does that make sense? To never really be comfortable with the idea of giving her the impression that I do not want her, need her and have to have her in my life? That seems to have been the issue since this all started...my fear of letting her truly think I am OK with what she wants. As good as things are, it is certainly not because I have been able to act "as if".
Just a little rant on my part.. but it can get frustrating when you keep telling someone "what to do". They repeat it back.. maybe even agree.. and then almost "disregard" it.
Yes, I know. Forrest, do you have children? My daughter's 19th birthday is today...I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes you can "tell" someone something until you are blue in the face, and they just don't get it.
My wife made homemade mac and cheese over the weekend..one of her specialties. She remarked about the sauce and how creamy it was, and that she used to put too much cheese in it. I reminded her how I used to "tell" her that when she first started making it...too much cheese, not enough "creaminess". She reminded me that she doesn't do well when someone tells her what to do. She needs to make her own mistakes and figure it out on her own. She reminded me the other day that D is the same way.
If you have "some people" (posters) following a common theme.. you owe it to yourself to explore that thought. DB'ing is about being "Smart".. not emotional.. making choices that effect the "long run" and not the "here and now".
I get that, and I'll tell you..with the way she has been the last few weeks it is truly hard not to think that there may have been some sort of movement from her.....and even though I am stuck on hearing something from her that will tell me for sure, I feel a different vibe in our interactions and have been trying to go with that.
Her night out, and me showing up to get her unexpectedly was one example. Yesterday it came up again somehow and she made a remark about the look on my face when I got there, and laughed about it. As Lin said in the post following yours, it went OK this time, but I think if it had been few months ago, or if I had just said one wrong word, it would have been a different story. The fact that it did not affect the weekend we just spent together is even more telling to me. I will have to come back and journal a little about that.
"This afternoon she sent me a text to ask if I wanted her to make chicken wings for tonight, or wait for the game Sunday night."
Did you pick up the phone and call her with your decision?
And thank her for "thinking of you"?
I texted back that it was up to her...save them for Sunday and the game if you want. She said "well YOU want them, don't you?"...we had chicken wings....and homemade mac and cheese.
nds you are doing so well. It seems that your sitch has turned in the past few weeks as you've pointed out. I'm sure it's hard as things improve to be holding onto that one piece of 'evidence' that hasn't come yet. But think about this - if you were to get that piece of evidence and she actually said it to you, would that be enough? Sometimes we think something or some words will change our thoughts or behavior but when it actually comes it doesn't have the desired effect.
I'll give you an example. I've been frustrated the last few weeks about not having any physical contact with my W besides a hug and kiss on the cheek in the morning. This weekend we actually made out on her initiative. Now before that happened I thought getting that kind of physical signal would set me on feeling that we are finally arriving. It did answer the question of whether she still had feelings of chemistry and attraction for me - no doubt I felt it this weekend. But it didn't have the impact on my psyche that I thought it would. Now my standard has changed to how about that kind of interaction a couple times a week, and throw in some snuggling and hand holding while you're at it. With this thinking I tend to overlook the time I just had and how nice it was.
Sometimes we hold onto a piece that we are not getting and it makes us lose focus on the positive things that are actually happening in the present moment. It acts as a sort of distraction. Kind of like the person who buys a new car and they feel fulfilled for a short time, then they are onto the next fix. I'm not saying this is happening to you, but I think if she met the bar you have set in your mind, the bar would merely change to something else you need to see. That movement of the bar can go on endlessly until we actually put a stop to it altogether. I speak from my own experience in this and it's just my point of view.
Anyway, I'm glad you are doing well.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
Lin Thank you for stopping in on my thread. It is always good to hear from someone who has saved their marriage and is still out there to let others on the site know.
In reading my thread, I think you..and others, get the idea that my wife and I are actually at a point where we are working on the marriage together, which really is not true.
Although we are getting along well and having some very good times together, she has not reached a point where she is willing to tell me she has given up on an eventual separation. Other than a rare reminder from her, there has not really been much talk about the relationship, the marriage or her ultimate goal in all of this anymore.
If you read my more recent posts, that is what most of my drama is all about....wanting to hear the words from her and not believing that her actions could be telling me something that she just might not be ready to vocalize.
Your suggestions for communication, GAL, space and time for each other..together and separately are exactly what I would like to be working on with her as a goal for out future together. My GAL and space allowances are still off quite a bit....detaching still a big stumbling block for me, because we have stayed co close during this post bomb time together....very confusing for me from the start.
Did your husband ever come out and say that he wanted to work on the marriage, or just slowly come back to you without much talk of what was going on?....have to go check out your old threads...looks like you have been around for a while. Good to see another veteran staying around to help us out.
