John, I am struggling with the "issues" thing today..........Saturday night I had a big old fashioned fit and went off on H about how I have told him in no uncertain terms that I needed more "me and H" time. He asked me a good question which was "what does 'you and me' time look like to you"?
B/C when I am cooking dinner in the kitchen and he is grilling the meat outside, he considers that "together" time? B/C we wind up eating together. And when he is wrestling with the kids on the floor in the living room while I am sitting nearby folding laundry and watching them, he considers that "together" time. And when he is in the glider watching "Family Guy" at night, and I am on the couch watching it, he considers that "together" time.
I said, for me together time is just the two of us, without the kids, with the focus on each other. Or even the two of us with the kids as long as we are connected. I gave the example that if we were at the park and he was in one area with one kid and I was in another area with the other kid, that is NOT together time in my eyes b/c WE aren't together. But, on the other hand, if we were to take the kids for a walk on walking trail along the lake at the park and hold hands while we walked, THAT would be together time b/c we are connected WHILE we spend time with the kids. Does that make sense to you guys??
And I have told him a few times that if he is in the glider/rocker which only seats one person and I am in another chair across the room, if we are just watching TV and not talking to each other, that doesn't feel like together time to me. But, if he were to throw a blanket on the floor and ask me to spoon with him while we watched tv, or if he came and sat on the couch with me, that would be together time to me.
I was upset Sat. night b/c we have had similar talks before. And H dialogues in his journal with me that he is frustrated w/himself b/c he knows what I want, but at the end of the day he rarely seems to do those things/show me in the way I like to be shown. So at what point do you just say, "Quit saying you feel bad that you haven't been doing it and DO it?"
That is where I was Saturday night. I raged, not at him but at the situation. we were in bed and I was kicking the mattress and punching the sheets I was so frustrated...We wound up snuggling somehow and then an hour or so later he woke me up to ML.
But nothing feels different today than it did earier on Saturday. Last night H went out directly after work and did chores on the farm. He got home to our home at 8:00. Played with the kids until they went to bed at 9:00. Sissy got up again so H went in the kids' room and sang to them, came back out at 9:30.
Then he came out and sat in the glider. I was sitting on the couch already, so worn out from the day--went to work on the homecoming float after school and we got home the same time as H. I asked H if he was interested in dialoguing. He acted like he didn't hear me, or at least he didn't answer me. Then he started watching Family Guy (the only show he watches). It was a 1-hr Star Wars Spoof. The closest he came to interacting with me was to look back at me on the couch to see if I was smiling at the funny parts.....I was inwardly fuming b/c he didn't have time to dialogue but he had time for Family Guy?
I totally understand how you feel. I am sure that if you look back before all this $h!t happened, anSaturday evening as you described it would have been fine. the problem is we have been scarred by the bomb. I think it is normal for you to expect a little more WE time and I think it would be normal for your H to try hard to show you and or give you what you want. On a positive note you guys are doing the nudge nudge so it can not be all that bad. I don`t know if any of this ,makes any sense. here is another angle. Are you expecting your husband to act in a way that he has never acted? If so perhaps you are expecting too much. You have to trust your instincts. In my case I knew and felt that my W was not into it when we tried to reconcile.
I don't know how to explain it other than sometimes I feel he is just going through the motions, or that he is doing this reconciliation b/c it is the "right" thing to do, not b/c he wants me so badly. In fact, he said as much in July when he wanted to come home.
I said it felt "different" b/c when he had the short-term PA in 2002 he was crying, tears running down his face, on his knees in our bed with my wedding ring in his hand the day he begged me to work on "us" again....But this time it wasn't like that at all.
H said, that's b/c last time I was in a place where I really wanted you back, wanted our little family (S was only 3 months old) back, etc. This time (in his words) so much has happened and there is a lot about our M that I am not happy/satisfied with; I think a lot of progress will have to be made before I ever get to that point.
So he and I were approaching this R from two vastly different/opposite perspectives from the get-go. My philosophy is that you decide you want your marriage with all your heart, you love the other person, and then it follows that you choose to do all of the work to improve your relationship, such as Retro, counseling, making lifestyle changes, etc.
H has been approaching it as, you decide to do the work, make the changes, etc. and hopefully you wind up loving your mate with all your heart and wanting to stay married.
For example I told him I wanted him to re-commit himself to me, take a trip with me, eventually renew our wedding vows to cement our new beginning. I told him this in July.
He told me he taked about it with his IC and they both thought it was "way too soon" to take a trip together or renew our vows, that he would only be doing it b/c I wanted him to, not b/c he wanted to. He said it would take time for us to learn to communicate again and see if we could make it work, then move on to re-committing....
I just feel like either you are in, or you are out. I don't like the idea of try-it-and-see.
Please help me see where I need to bend or where I may have a point?
BBJ...I wish I could help you. With recent events in my life, I am not sure I am the right person to listen to. I think my W took the aproach of try it and see. Try it and see is fine but you have to really try. In my case (and by no means am i even insinuating that you are in the same sitch) I am sure W was still in contact with OM will we were supposed to be trying, even when we were on vacation. That is why i said in the past that i jumped back in too quickly. But how can we resist when we have been trying to reconcile for so long? Bottom line BBJ, you told him how you feel. Now back off. Try some DB stuff....see what happens. Unfortunately, he is still holding the big end of the stick. Be patient.
John, I think you nailed it. It is the dynamic itself that is a problem for me. Because I view H as the "bigger bad guy" in terms of our split, because he is the one who had the A and he is the one who moved away (granted it was for the new job but still).
On the other hand, H views us as equally at fault for the problems in our M and says the A was a result of those inherent problems.
So I am wanting him to be a little more (ok maybe a lot more) on the woo-ing, loving, let-me-make-it-up-to-you side. Conversely, he is wanting me to be on the let-me-show-you-I-can-change-and-thiings-can-be-different side.
To add to my frustration H did not come to bed last night. He fell asleep on the couch. I asked if he was coming to bed when I went to bed at 11, he said yes. I woke up at 1 and he was still on the couch. I woke up at 3 and he had at some point gone and gotten a blanket out of the hall closet to cover up with. Then at 5 am I woke up and the TV was on. It was an infomercial, very boring...I walked out and H startled up off the couch. I asked if he was watching TV, he said what is on? I said never mind and turned off the TV as it was making the hallway outside our room bright.
H came to bed and said, sorry, I just can't sleep. I asked if he was in a funk, he murmered something. I said, "Are you irritable, tired, frustrated, worried?" He answered, "Yes", like it was all of those things. I knew he said he couldn't sleep and now I couldn't sleep so we were both laying in bed in the dark, awake. So I started to ask something and he just said "Honey...."
He never calls me that. Like, ever. Even in cards or letters. I said, "Did you just call me honey?" (That, from the messages I saw, is what OW called H but she spelled it Hunny (puke)). He said "Yes, Honey, I don't want to talk about it, ok?"
I said ok and rolled over. Of course I finally fell asleep well at 5:40 and my alarm went off at 5:50. Grr...
So H was still in a crappy mood when he left for work.
I figured out what is up, why H is acting so sad, frustrated, etc. He is missing OW. I was sorting jeans for the laundry and found a piece of paper in his jeans that said "Leona Lewis Better In Time" in his handwriting. I just googled the song and here are the words...
It's been the longest winter without you I didn't know where to turn to See somehow i can't forget you After all that we've been through
Going Coming Thought i heard a knock(Whose there, Noone?) Thinking that (I deserve it) Now i have realised that i really didn't knooOooOw
If you didn't notice You mean everything (quickly I'm learning) To love again (all i know is) I'm be oooOook
(Chorus)
Thought i couldn't live without you It's going to hurt when it heals too Oh yeaah (It'll All get better in time) Even though i really love you I'm gonna smile because i deserve too Oooh(It'll all get better in time)
(Verse)
I couldn't turn on the TV Without something that would remind me Was it all that easy? To just put us out your feeling
If i'm dreamin Don't want to let it (hurt my feelings) But that's the past (i believe it) And i know that, time will heal it
If you didn't notice Well you mean everything (quickly i'm learning) Oooh turn up again (All i know is) I'm be ok
(Chorus)
Thought i couldn't live without you It's gonna hurt when it heals too Oooh yeah(It'll all get better in time) Even though i really love you I'm gonna smile because i deserve too oooooh(It'll all get better in time)
(Bridge)
Since there's no more you and me (No more you and me) This time i let you go so i can be free And Live my life how it should be(No No No No No No) No matter how hard it is I will be fine without you Yes i Will
(Chorus)
Thought i couldn't live without you It's gonna hurt when it heals too Oooh(It'll all get better in time) Even though i really loved you I'm gonna smile cos i deserve too yes i do(It'll all get better in time)
Thought i couldn't live without you It's gonna hurt when it heals too yeaaaah Ooooh oooooh (It'll all get better in time) Even though i really loved you Going to smile cos i deserve too Ooooooh (It'll all get better....)
So, either he heard the song on the radio and identified with it, or she sent it to him on his phone. (Remember in June she drove past our house blasting the song "Why Don't You Stay" by Sugarland?? And he showed me in late July text messages from her asking why he wouldn't talk to her and saying she was lonely..
I don't know for sure what to make of this. It would explain why he has been "off" the past few days. But in reading the words, I don't think it is too bad b/c it talks about moving on without that person, so even if he thought of the song, it says he will move forward with his life and leave her in the past? Or if she sent it to him, it isn't a "wow we are so much in love" song, it is a "you left me but I will go on" song.
Someone please look at it from another perspective for me. Is this a bad thing, a good thing, or neither?
I think the tone of the song is that the person is moving forward in their life to find happiness without the person from the past. However, it does talk about being so in love and how that other person is their "everything". ick...
By the way I have no plans to mention this to H. Think I will just leave the piece of paper in the jeans and leave the jeans in the laundry for now. Or should I put the paper and the change from in his jean pocket on his dresser like I do his other receipts when he leaves stuff in his dirty jeans? And then just wash the freakin jeans?
I think this may be a reminder to me to be the upbeat appealing W instead of the worried, insecure W I have started to be the last few days as I try to figure out what is up with H. If he is missing her and glorifying their time together, me moping around or pushing myself on him wouldn't be appealing....
H is gone to Canada again anyway, he left this morning. Doesn't get back until Friday.
I don't know what to make of the note either. i like your conclusion to be upbeat etc. In my sitch i think i underestimated the "power" of the OR (other relationship). Again there isn't much one can do except work on being the better option (I know it's a cliche but what else can we do.) Hang in there BBJ.
Thanks, John. That is what the immature inner child in me has tantrums about--being the better option. He married me, I have always been 100% faithful to him, WTF? Why should I have to compete for him still?
On "Everbody Loves Raymond", the husband put it this way: "I woo-ed you. You have been woo-ed." This was in response to his W wanting him to try harder to be boyfriend-like even though they'd been married for years........
However, the grown up in me says if I want my H, I should do what I would do to be appealing to ANY guy. Look cute, take care of myself, be flirty and fun to be around. I am still trying to figure out how to be cute and flirty while folding laundry....
Seriously I am sort of stunned by this possible development. I shouldn't be, when he first said he would end it w/her in July (for REAL this time), I said I knew it would be hard and he said he didn't want any sympathy from me, that it was too weird. So when he said he didn't want to talk about what was wrong, I am sure that he probably didn't if it had to do with missing her...
I just don't like the idea of him being off on a business trip with hours in his hotel room at night to talk or text if he gets too lonely..........
I will try to vent my worries here so I don't sound so distressed when I talk to H.
Vent away BBJ....I don't think you are being immature at all. Unless you have totally let yourself go and taken him totally for granted, why would you still have to compete? I agree 100%....the problem is we are not in a "normal" situation. We have been dealt some cards....either we keep playing or we fold em. If you decide to keep playing, than accept the hand that was dealt and continue to work like hell to win the game. The prize must be worth it. Do not be so hard on yourself....from where I am sitting and knowing a little of your history, i don't think that your "demands" are too much to ask for. You can do this ... you can make yourself the better option....your H has to give you a real shot....in my book if they (WAS) do not cut all communication with OP (other person), the battle will be long and hard.
