Memories of today

[transformer]

Dearest Beth,

Hey girl, I wanted to check in on you and say hello. It sounds like you have been doing some mega reflection and learning so much! I am really sad to hear about H's email about the horse. It sounds like what he is describing with the horse is not love, but limerance? Have you come across this in your reading? LIke OD said, that kind of chemistry will not last.

I also struggle with other people's suggestions to flirt more. Lisa suggested I start occaisionally stroking my cleavage

What that means is that H would need to do a LOT of work on his own--something he keeps saying he knows he needs to do, but hasn't.

I am also wondering... have you read "passionate marriage"?? There is this super powerful concept that if you start to differentiate (grow in your abilities to self-soothe, self-confront, and self-validate) you basically FORCE your partner to do the same thing. This is coming from a non-separated context but I wonder if it also works when you are separated.

So in this case, the growth you are doing can trigger growth in your H because he cannot rely on you anymore to soothe, confront, and validate him... he has to do it for himself. I am probably oversimplifying this completely but I would love to hear what you think of this book... it really is the best R book I have read thus far and I would love to incorporate its concepts into our community on the board....

LOVELOVELOVE
T

[Beth 83]

Hi T! Just looked up Passionate Marriage and will order it. It definitely seems good.

How are YOU????

[One Day]

Hey beth,

I'm so sorry I missed your last post. How's your weekend going? I hope you're having fun!

I know, if I feel in love with someone else (as H has claimed with the Horse), I would say to H, "I'm sorry, I love this new man, I'm going to be with him". Why hasn't H said that to me? Why continue to wear his ring?

I think partly because he's confused and partly because he's chasing a fantasy, and partly because he knows he loves you and feels hugely guilty and ashamed of how he's been behaving. Men are so much better able to compartmentalise their feelings than we are. It's hard to understand....

Of COURSE she is treating him poorly: He is married and refuses to commit to her!

LMAO!! Not that she doesn't deserve to get no commitment, of course

I honestly believe, if he truly wanted a relationship with her and didn't have any doubts about it, he would go be with her completely.

I totally agree- same for my H and the aub. From their POV it must be hugely frustrating, thinking they're getting their hands on this great guy and exciting R, but it doesn't pan out and by that time they're in it emotionally, trapped by the R and guilt of knowing how the R started.....

Doesn't he realize that if he did that, she MAY just start treating him better? It is so stupidly logical to me.

ROFLMAO! It IS stupidly obvious to all but an alien WAS!!

So, it makes me question...why hasn't he? Probably because he knows that I do truly love him. That I am amazing.

Very true!!

There has been a lot of discussion around my chest lately and he has always loved my breasts, so I've been trying to wear flattering outfits. I don't know what else I can do? I guess I can begin to flirt more? But, Lisa--How do I flirt with him again? We've become so comfortable with him, how can I do it without seeming weird?

Firstly, I totally applaud and approve of chest related discussions! Hurray for discussions about your breasts- I hope T read this and approved as well

I know what you mean about it feeling difficult to flirt more when you're comfortable together. I felt like a prize idiot when I started trying to flirt when I met up with H at first. I just started by trying to look a bit more deeply and for longer into his eyes, imagining I was kising him slowly as I did it. I read that when you do that it slows your voice down and makes it more seductive. Then after I managed to get him to make occassional eye contact I'd stroke my cleavage, or play with my hair, or glance at him a little, look away and then look back and smile. I don't know if it really affects H, but my aim is for him to not feel totally as though we're friends; that there's something else between us. Try googling Superflirt as well- it's a book on (probably obviously!) how to flirt. It's good practise, anyway, for if I ever meet someone other than H who's worth my exceptional flirting skills!

But, earlier in July, I had some amazing dates with this one guy who I could simply fall for. But, nothing in a while. It has been absolutely amazingly, wonderfully, quiet.

Gosh, that sounds fantastic- I'm envious. You sound at peace. I'm so happy for you!!

For your H, I keep going back to that day when he said that he would fix everything. I wonder, if perhaps, you do give him some sort of "I deserve better than this" speech, it would kick start it? But, that always goes back to, are you ready in case he chooses the other.

I wonder about that too, since him saying he'd fix things came immediately after I said I was going to back off and not speak to him any more. But then for whatever reason, he wasn't able to step up, and I don't think it was becausehe chose her, as obviously he's still seeing me. it must be that he can't break the addiction to her. DB Coach said to make myself more of a sure thing and ignore her so I'm trying it for now, but a big speech is definitely a possibility in the future.

Do you think something similar would work on your H? I can't remember any discussions/R talk between you guys ever..... and wonder if it might be worth having one to see what the deal is with him still wearing his ring/seeing you?

((((((Beautiful Beth with the lovely chest!!))))))))

L. xx
_________________________

[Beth 83]

WELL!

I've been MIA from the boards, but have been busy otherwise...

Historical recap:
H started an affair 7/06, I had no idea until he left 7/07 and I snooped later that night and found out. Our marriage had pretty much hit rock bottom. No sex life, no serious conversation, conflict avoidance. H and I both have our own personal issues, honestly, mine a lot less serious than his. I started seeing a therapist, he started and stopped. We started talking a little more this year, but he never talked about the OW and continued to wear his ring.

Lately, things have been heating up.

H stopped wearing his wedding ring in July/August? He started hanging out with me a lot more.

Big events that have happened:
*H came over in August, asked for a hug and then started crying, saying, "I'm so sorry. For everything. You were the last person who ever deserved any of that."
*H and I have talked a lot about the time apart and things that happened. We talked about my feelings about the seperation/affair.
*Last Thursday, he was over and he kept going into the bathroom b/c he "didn't feel well". I didn't believe him. I wrote out a text to my girlfriend about it, saying that I didn't believe he was sick and that I thought he was talking to "the horse". My girlfriend has the same 1st initial as husband. I sent the text to my H by accident. Yep. How horrendous. He came out of the bathroom, sorta laughing and then realized that I didn't mean to send it to him. I started crying:

H: is the horse (OW)?
Me: yes
H: that's not nice calling her a name
M: I don't care
M. When you were having an affair, I was completely oblivious and after we were separated, I started thinking about what you might have done behind my back, and one of them was you going into the bathroom when "you didn't feel good" and I was convinced you were actually blackberrying her.
H: So this was like a flashback today?
M: yes

We talked it out. I was so embarressed. He told me I didn't need to be that he completely understood and apologized for me feeling that way.

That sparked a Long weekend of talking. The rest of the night we shared stories. He said that he isn't with OW anymore. I sorta shrugged and said that I don't really care about what he has to say about that b/c he has "not been with her" before and then "been with her again". He said that he will never be with her again.

He said that he wished he could share things with me about OW so that I could understand how serious he was, but he doesn't b/c I shutter at her name. He said that he thinks that one day we will both get to the point that we will just feel sorry for her.

Everyone digest that?

We went on to spend the whole weekend together.
Friday: NYC. talked about OW and how "damaged" she is. I told him that i think he was giving her more credit and that she wasn't a victim that she chose her life. We had fun. I told him that I dated other people. He handled it well.

Saturday: Hung out, went to lunch. I went out with my cousins while he stayed at our house. I got home in time for Saturday Night Live and we watched that. He slept over our house (on the couch).

Sunday morning: We woke up, watched some morning new shows. Went to brunch. At brunch, I talked about keeping my last name (his last name). We talked about that a little and then I said, "Well, I don't know. Sometimes I want to be married to you still." H said, "there is no rush".

We continued to walk around the town we were in, arm in arm. Enjoying time.

Later that night, he was touching my feet. He said, "I guess if I was to suck on your toes, I would need to make out with you first." I shook my head.

We later had sex. It was honestly some of the best sex we've had in a LONG LONG time.

I feel.........WEIRD.

I had my therapist appointment today and told her. She wasn't surprised considering how much we'd shared.

Thoughts? Anyone? I need some feedback. I'm not ready to just jump back into things with him. I don't know..

[Essie]

Wow Beth! That's pretty amazing! Well done!

I think you should listen to your heart now. If your not ready to jump back into things then dont.... you dont need to make a decision at the moment, you can just go with the flow and see what happens and how being with him makes you feel. I think its really good to make him work now, to make him invest in the relationship. Test him a bit!

While my sitch isnt exactly the same, its a bit similar. We just had our first sleep over too. I'm playing it very very cool. I used this line "I just want to have fun, I dont want any pressure" - its not just a line, its actually the truth, and its working well for me! I think of it as giving him space to step towards me.

Good luck, I look forward to some more updates about how you are feeling.

[Beth 83]

Thanks Essie. I'm going to go over and read your thread now. I see we are right around the same time line of age, etc.

I like your "line". I have often been thinking of the "I just want to have fun" because, honestly, I feel that way!

[Essie]

Beth - I've said that line twice, when H is getting close to having a deep and meaningful conversation. And honestly I can see the muscles in his face relax when he realises I'm not going to pressure him into something.

[Essie]

Question - how long since H and OW broke up?

[Beth 83]

They broke up I would say around 2 months ago. I know this from our phone records (cell phones) but when he talks, it sounds like months at a time. So, I think it has been down hill for around 6 months.

[One Day]

WOWEEEEEEEE Beth!!!!!! Fantastic news!!!! The horse is well and truly at the knackers yard!!! HURRRAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!

Firstly, I'm so pleased that he's seen the light and remembered how awesome you are! About time too! I also think it's good news that he thought at some point in the future that you'd look back and see the horse for what she was- future talk, very positive!

I like Essie's suggestion of taking it slow and saying you just want to have fun. He's obviously taking steps back towards you, which is great, but you're in control and things can go at your pace as you see fit. I also think he needs to do some work to romance you and woo you if you do want to work at the R again. He needs to make some effort now and show that he's serious about you (or at least wants to give having some fun a go!)

I'm honestly so happy for you Beth- tears in my eyes when I read your post!!

L. xx