Your actions would would make a mockery of that saying. You say your acting all cool and happy when in fact you are really wanting your W back.
?? Not sure what you mean. Mockery of what? True I want my marriage back. But when I go golfing, I am not acting happy. I just am happy. When I play with the kids, it is no act. I'm happy with that. I'm not happy all the time and there are times when I look and see things that make me less than happy. I don't see how this is inconsistent.
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Meanwhile , I do go to the gym, I do look after myself in appearance. I work , i laugh and I have lots of friends but mainly married. Small country here , so oppotunities to expand are limited but not bad. Events and stuff are just spread out and not large numbers , so little harder to ease into new activities if shy and on your own,...
Good! You will find new things...
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Rugby was ok. Party afterwards fantastic except that H never came within spitting distance if me. In fact it was horrible ( that bit ) So I took myself home. He turned up later to spend the night. I let him ! Should I of said NO ?
No, I don't think so. What does "spend the night" mean? It sounds like another opportunity.
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You will embrace the change in him, and allow it to happen, not resist it.
Not sure how this works. How do you embrace something that is tearing you apart.
You let it be. The change doesn't have to tear you apart. It can make you sad, you can feel grief, but you can live with it. Fighting it is hurting you further.
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It makes me withdraw further. I see it as another step away. Can marriages ever come back from this kind of separation ?
IT IS a step away. Marriages come back all the time. Lots of 'em. Lots of them come back even after divorce. It takes time for people to come around, sometimes. The question is, are you willing to wait? There is no wrong answer there.
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She doesn't do anything with them.
I am going to defend your wife here. Sometimes doing for the kids 24/7 leaves you not much time for play. It is hard work. As woman we feel and do differently for the kids than men. Not better and not worse , just different. It leaves us tired both physically and emotionally.
I don't think I am accusing or indicting her. I am just observing, she doesn't do anything with them. I get that she has to take care of them 24/7. I get that it does not leave much time for play. This is why divorce is a bad idea in the first place. It's not beneficial to them. They are not "better off" and they are not thriving like they should. It's hard on them, plain and simple. That's all I'm saying.
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Would she consider perhaps a family outing once a month or shared birthday, holiday dinners ? i know that is when you most miss the partner . Sharing happy occasions can only be good for all.
Maybe you should ask her. ( If you can )
We were doing those things, at my request, but she shut that off with the no-contact order. She refused to do Halloween (a dress-up, costume occasion here), and took the kids away for Thanksgiving. But she agreed to do Christmas together. She agreed to do my son's birthday together. Both were nice occasions. But then later she cut off all contact.
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Shame about the rings. Do you think she will ever come round ? What are you waiting for?
I am waiting for light and compassion to re-enter her heart. I am waiting for healing. I am waiting for grace. At the same time I am doing my thing - figuring out how to be happy with and for myself. Because a depressed broken man is not worth coming back to.
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why do I want H back ? Do I love him ? Is it just the lack of control I miss ? Why would I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has treated me so bad ? Is it because I remember what it used to be like ? Can it ever be like that again?
You are like so many here. Maybe your husband is having the same thoughts. Why would I want to spend my life with someone who has treated me like this? If you do reconcile, it will never be the same, but it can be good again. Less innocent, but more mature, wiser.
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Why did i have an A, really. Not something I would of ever done I thought. Even now I shake my head at the wonder of it all.
THAT is worth exploring. With a professional. Really.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
? Not sure what you mean. Mockery of what? True I want my marriage back. But when I go golfing, I am not acting happy. I just am happy. When I play with the kids, it is no act. I'm happy with that. I'm not happy all the time and there are times when I look and see things that make me less than happy. I don't see how this is inconsistent.
I think I have got it wrong. What you are saying is that you are not pretending, you are in fact ok with your situation. You are doing things that are making you happy but it would be better with family in tact.
Soooooo how does W know that you are receptive to reconciliation if you are happy ? If you dont talk about R how does she know? Are you waiting for her to make first move ? In her shoes i am not sure I would have the courage. Hopefully you are aware of this and that you encourage any feelers she might put out.
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You let it be. The change doesn't have to tear you apart. It can make you sad, you can feel grief, but you can live with it. Fighting it is hurting you further.
Funnily enough that makes me feel better. I wont resist it. My H is very stubborn but I think he is also man enough to own up to error of choice if he ever feels this way.
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I am waiting for light and compassion to re-enter her heart. I am waiting for healing. I am waiting for grace. At the same time I am doing my thing - figuring out how to be happy with and for myself. Because a depressed broken man is not worth coming back to.
Is it compassion you want? Should not the compassion be coming from you. She had the A, she broke up the family, she took no contact order out. Compassion and forgiveness are yours first and foremost. For you, you must wait for her to be sad. She has to realise what she has given up , the cost to the kids and they pay the absolute highest price for this divorce. A and D are self indulgent and as a woman your children should always come first, making D a tough decision. Cant imagine where her head is at.
SPM - I am up to last resort in the book and that is excellent and I can see the benefits which fit in with what you were saying. I have in most ways these last few weeks doing the steps. I just have to learn to recognise oppotunites and make the most of them. Dont let frustration and anger get in the way.
You are doing things that are making you happy but it would be better with family in tact.
yes, that's right.
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Soooooo how does W know that you are receptive to reconciliation if you are happy ? If you dont talk about R how does she know? Are you waiting for her to make first move ? In her shoes i am not sure I would have the courage. Hopefully you are aware of this and that you encourage any feelers she might put out.
I don't know - I have no direct way of communicating to her. This was a bit of a problem earlier you see. She was hell bent on divorce, and I was very clear that I did not want to divorce. When she filed, I got a call from the attorney (not from her directly). I phoned her and asked her to reconsider. She refused. This was back in November, 10 months ago now. She identified my desire to avoid divorce as "controlling her." So I had to stop suggesting no divorce.
In the meantime, I have been very inactive on the divorce front. Not pushing it in any way. When it is filed, there is an opportunity to file motions and .. you know, push things along. I haven't done so.
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A and D are self indulgent and as a woman your children should always come first, making D a tough decision. Cant imagine where her head is at.
I share your perspective... children should come first.. but... I know where her head is. She is blaming me. She looks at me as the negative force in her life. I have been abusive to her, she believes, and she needs to get herself away from me. And abusive to the kids, too. (Although I don't know how she maintains that belief, since the kids adore me and we always have a blast together and she knows it). So it is blame coupled with victimhood - she cannot succeed, she cannot be happy, with me abusing her and pushing her down. The obvious answer is to get rid of me!
The thing is, she wanted the divorce long long before she came up with this "abuse" justification for it. She felt hopeless, she didn't feel emotion for me anymore, ILYBINILWY, all the standard infidelty and MLC stuff. (This was after the affair was revealed, but it was still (secretly) going on). Only later, still carrying on the affair, and after seeking help from an abused woman's group (on advice of the divorce attorney), did she arrive at the "aha!" moment regarding allegations of abuse.
I take what she says seriously, so I don't dismiss the abuse thing lightly. I admit that I could have been lower key in the house. I admit that I made a mistake in throwing her out of the house when I learned of her affair. But did my behavior rise to the level of a pattern of abuse? I don't think so. She never brought it up once, until *after* she filed for divorce. When I expressed a desire to work on that stuff, she refused.
The reason I dismiss it is because she never asked me to rectify anything. She only used all the crimes in my past, large and small but mostly small, as a justification for her actions - her affair and filing for divorce. If my behavior really was the fundamental issue in the marriage, I would expect her to be angry, but then at some point, I would expect her to respond positively to my offer to work on things. She never did.
I'm not saying my behavior was not an issue at all, I'm not saying I was perfect. I am saying that she never asked me to fix things; she only blamed. She is using my behavior as a retroactive excuse for what she did and is doing.
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I'm glad you are enjoying the book. It has some good insights. I found that it helps to read a bunch of different things. Five Love Languages is another good one. Passionate Marriage is another. There are a bunch of insights in the good ones.
'm not saying my behavior was not an issue at all, I'm not saying I was perfect. I am saying that she never asked me to fix things; she only blamed. She is using my behavior as a retroactive excuse for what she did and is doing.
As long as you give yourself a break. No one on this earth is perfect. The world is not black and white. Not taking the time to see if things can be fixed means you have not left no stone unturned.
Guilt must set in. Children as adults must see the lack of effort on her part. It all must come back andbite her on the rear!
Hang in with the kids. Be the father and man that they need. Plenty of books on that. Maybe its time to really make sure that you are doing everything right ( in the situation your in ) so that your kids as adults will appreciate. Important that S and D have the male role model that they need , so they dont go on and repeat history.
Today I feel that I can survive this and that I can go on and build the business I have always dreamed etc etc Dam roller coaster ride this has turned out to be.
My parents return from overseas soon and as much as I need there support , I dont need their interference. They hurt because i hurt. They want to protect. i dont need their 10c as it may influence me in a direction I am not sure I want to go in.
Your W seems to have some bad influences. Wouldn't it be nice to up and move and have a whole clean start ? You would lean on each other and support each other. How strengthening would that be Ah!
Alas our universe has other plans for us I think.
I think your wife has had a taste of the movie love stuff. A are exciting and new and lovey dovey but they are not real. Now I think your W is either holding out for OM or thinks that , that is what should happen.
I feel her pain. I too have hungered for that. But realised that the satisfaction you get from that kind of first love - new love is short lived. She needs to understand this. As soon as she realises that no matter who and what relationship she gets going with, they will all end in the same place and that is probably where you were kicked off. Unless she realises what drove her to another man she will repeat the cycle.
My A had nothing whatsoever to do with my H. It was all about my needs that i thought were not being met. They were being met , I just could not see them because I was selfish.
My thoughts are with you as you tackle this problem. how do you communicate this to your W. I dont know but I know for sure that I am right. She better sit up and smell the roses otherwise she will never find happiness.
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I admit that I made a mistake in throwing her out of the house when I learned of her affair.
Surely you don't believe this. You did exactly what was right. She did wrong. I wonder if not enough responsibilty has been set upon her. Like a child if the consequences of action are not demonstrated , the lesson is not learnt........
No, I believe it. I made a mistake. The way I did it was wrong.
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Today I feel that I can survive this and that I can go on and build the business I have always dreamed etc etc
Good for you! Those are good dreams to pursue, regardless what happens.
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My thoughts are with you as you tackle this problem. how do you communicate this to your W.
Thanks for your support! I think I see the situation as you do. I don't know either, how to move from this spot. Time and patience, I guess. and I have to get a life!
-- so tell me, what are you doing for fun today, tomorrow? Tell me your plans, for YOU.
Just got off the phone with H. Discussing Assets etc and he said he wanted to make sure that when I get a boyfriend , that he ( boyfriend) would be unable to touch our assets .
I laughed and said I was not that stupid. Never have been. I said does not the same apply to you. He said yeah. I said do you have a girlfriend (jokingly) and he said " NotYet" seriously.
Oh my God , is he shutting me down. I have DB. When conversations like this come up , I keep response to minimum and I am up beat. The more I am like this the more It seems that he is just heading on his own path and no longer even considers me as option!
I know it is just words but H is not a guy to play games. His world is black and white. He does not mince words.
Soooo this leaves me this morning despondent and all my get up an go is zapped.
Whoa, Max. Of course you feel pissed off. but I have to tell you, IT IS PAR FOR THE COURSE.
In their heads they are re-arranging all the chess-pieces of life to fit their reality. The reality is, they want out of the marriage (for now). It would make them feel so much better if you felt the same way, if you went off and found happiness without them. This would excuse their flight from the marriage.
The same thing applies to filing for divorce. Lots of them want to instigate it, but don't have the guts to file. They want the left-behind person to file. They goad them into doing it, so they can feel like "this was a mutual decision" or "My husband filed, he obviously felt the marriage was over. I agree."
They all say the same words! Your husband is just imagining a time when you are off with someone else. If he were truly concerned with the assets, he would have said "so YOU cannot touch them later. He would not have said "you and your boyfriend."
My wife said the same thing, while we were still in the house together. She was setting me up, in her head, on dates with her friends.
I can understand you being upset. Who wouldn't be? But this is just par for the course.
If you believe "HE is not a guy to play games" and that he really means it, then it will be true. If you follow his suggestion and get a boyfriend then his reality will become true.
Your choice.
There will be lots of this stuff. Prepare yourself. There will be a day when he drops the blame for all the problems in his life at your doorstep, explicitly. If he has not done so already. When he steps back and looks at the mess, rather than take responsibility for his share, his instinct will be to blame you for all of it.
It is the same thing. His reality. You can choose to accept it. Or not.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Today he is out doing sailing lessons. Something we were to do together. Dam him. Hope he is a loner amongst couples. But i smiled and wished him luck.
You have been quiet for a few days. Hope that is a good sign that you are getting plenty of family ( kids ) time.
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She was setting me up, in her head, on dates with her friends.
You are kidding me. I had dreams of that when I was in the midst of A. Would of made the guilt trip less and pressure off me. The Om also did this with his W. Horrible horrible horrible
Max...this is just my impression, but it seems that maybe you don't really "get" that your husband isn't the one who had an affair, YOU are. Please don't take that in a horrible way...its just that, well, can't you just try to realize how hurt he is? How justified he feels in his pain and anger? How you sleeping with your friend's husband is the catalyst to all of this?
I know you do take responsibility, and you are truly repentant and you truly want your husband back...but maybe the only way for you to get him back is to accept the consequences of your actions? Accept that he is so hurt that you did this, he may never come back.
I know he contributed to the marital problems, too. He is not blameless at all, I'm not saying that.
Its just that you seem to be struggling to accept this natural consequence and you are fighting it and wondering "how can he do this to me?"
Maybe instead you should say "wow, maybe I've really lost him", and then move forward from THERE....stop the roller coaster by coasting down into the end of the ride....accept these new terms of your relationship (that he appears to be ready to move on now)....and just go from THERE and stop trying to "scream and shake him up". What point is there in this screaming and shaking?
You woke up from your fog and you ran home to him. That is good, and it shows you ultimately were not the total WAW that you may have been at one time.
But you waking up from your fog does not excuse what has happened and it does not make your husband have to accept you back, now that you've run home and are fogfree.
Gosh I really fear my words are going to come across much harsher than I intend....I am not berating you, I'm just stating what I am seeing as an outsider. To me, it is very clear that your H feels he is justified in leaving you, and his reasons are sound....you don't seem to have much choice but to see this for yourself, too.
I hope you are somehow comforted in this, though....I'm not saying he will never come back. I still think there is hope. I just think you need to accept the consequences first.
No offense taken. I in fact need the wake up call.
When I think about it , I just see how sorry I am and cant understand how he cant. BUT perhaps if I just acccept that I did wrong and the consequences of that , then I will move on.
As frustrating as it is, the loss is mine to bear.
Your response is actually quite healing in a round about way.
I think, us that do wrong, do everything we think of to try and put right that we possibly don't really stop and think.
We are actions, words, actions etc Back pedaling so fast we loose sight of the others pain. We can intellectially understand it, but emotionally we don't go there. Almost impossible to empathise when you have not walked in those shoes!
Thanks for your words. I shall go and ponder and take it in as much as I can.
End of the day I want to be able to be happy. Maybe I just have to sit back and see if that includes H
